Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Dicdonya]

Preliminary offseason plan: trade Ferraro and futures for Byram, back up the Brinks truck for Kovacevic or Ekblad, try to sign Ehlers or Bennett but realistically settle for taking on someone like Andrew Copp as a cap dump, invest in a decent 1B to support Askarov.

Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli
Zetterlund-Wennberg-Smith
Kovalenko-Copp-Graf/Chernyshov
Goodrow-Dellandrea-enforcer

Byram-Kovacevic
Walman-Thrun
Mukhamadullin-Liljegren

Askarov
1B

Im down with the trade for Byram, but if we win the lottery, I would personally rather try to nab Marner instead of Kov/Ekblad.

Right now our defense is the biggest issue, but getting Schaefer goes a long way to righting that ship.

In the meantime though we have basically 3 legit/developing core top 6 forwards in Eklund, Celebrini and Smith. We do not really have anyone else in the pipeline that looks like they will be a surefire top 6 forward, especially a 1st line forward. I think we need another 1st line forward to really help Celebrini out, and take some of the pressure off him.

Marner is still young enough that even a max length contract wont age poorly until maybe the last year or two depending on how his game/body ages. He has the hockey IQ to play with someone like Celebrini and I think our lineup looks more balanced with him in it. Cap is also not an issue considering how much its supposed to go up soon, and how guys like Vlasic and Couture will be off the books by the time we need to sign Celebrini and Smith.

Marner-Celebrini-Toffoli
Eklund-Smith-Zetts/??

Byram-Schaefer
Walman-Thrun
Muk-Liljegren

Askarov.

That looks better to me than having a second line anchored by Wennberg.

Now obviously who knows what chance there is that Marner would even be willing to come to SJ. I have no idea what sort of market/situation he is looking for, or if money is his main goal. Also if we lose out on the first overall and pick a high end forward instead, than yeah I agree more with your plan to go harder for Defense with our cap because then we will have another top 6/1st liner in the system.

 

[coooldude]

This is totally a gut call, but Marner feels more likely to Chicago. And honestly I am okay with that. I still don't buy Marner as a piece we really want to build the contender Grier is trying to build.

 

[pappaf2]

Not sure if what I think about Marner for a sharks target but I feel like Jumbo being a part of the org would help potentially sell him in being in SJ. He and Jumbo and Patty ended up being pretty friendly from their time with the leafs I think.

 

[Hodge]

Im down with the trade for Byram, but if we win the lottery, I would personally rather try to nab Marner instead of Kov/Ekblad.

Right now our defense is the biggest issue, but getting Schaefer goes a long way to righting that ship.

In the meantime though we have basically 3 legit/developing core top 6 forwards in Eklund, Celebrini and Smith. We do not really have anyone else in the pipeline that looks like they will be a surefire top 6 forward, especially a 1st line forward. I think we need another 1st line forward to really help Celebrini out, and take some of the pressure off him.

Marner is still young enough that even a max length contract wont age poorly until maybe the last year or two depending on how his game/body ages. He has the hockey IQ to play with someone like Celebrini and I think our lineup looks more balanced with him in it. Cap is also not an issue considering how much its supposed to go up soon, and how guys like Vlasic and Couture will be off the books by the time we need to sign Celebrini and Smith.

Marner-Celebrini-Toffoli
Eklund-Smith-Zetts/??

Byram-Schaefer
Walman-Thrun
Muk-Liljegren

Askarov.

That looks better to me than having a second line anchored by Wennberg.

Now obviously who knows what chance there is that Marner would even be willing to come to SJ. I have no idea what sort of market/situation he is looking for, or if money is his main goal. Also if we lose out on the first overall and pick a high end forward instead, than yeah I agree more with your plan to go harder for Defense with our cap because then we will have another top 6/1st liner in the system.

I'm all for throwing $100M at Marner in free agency, especially if we're lucky enough to draft Schaefer. Completely agree that he'd be a perfect fit with Macklin and we can cross the playoff choking bridge when we get there. He'll have more appealing options but maybe Thornton and Marleau can sell him on the Sharks.

 

[Jargon]

I think after the media trauma of Toronto, I can actually really see Marner coming to San Jose to be with his adoptive parents in Joe and Patty, while getting to be part of the upswing of a fun org, with a fun new core, where he won’t be skewered for everything that happens. I’ve always sort of had a feeling that he’d end up here.

 

[one2gamble]

Marner is going to chase money, that's it

 

[Jwads]

I get what people are saying about Marner, but he seems genuinely bad/overwhelmed in the playoffs

 

[Kcoyote3]

I think a lot of the fear of missing Granlund next season will be mitigated by natural Celebrini growth. It's possible he has a sophomore slump but a lot of guys on his level just take off and don't look back.

Matthews 0.84 PPG to 1.02 PPG
McDavid 1.06 PPG to 1.22 PPG
Crosby 1.26 PPG to 1.52 PPG

Celebrini 0.88 PPG

I suspect next year's he a real PPG player and is firmly in the #1C slot. Yes Granlund would be super important to eat minutes behind him or to move onto his line, but I don't think it HAS to be Granlund. I think we can find other players to fill that role. Celebrini's our best player and pretty soon it's going to be his team if it isn't already.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Only Igor Larionov has a higher playoff points per game as a Shark than Marner’s career mark. Some of that is Marner playing in a lower scoring era, some of that is him leeching assists (though his playoff goals per game is also higher than Thornton’s lol), but some of it is him being a legitimately great offensive player (better than any in franchise history besides Thornton) who is still good in the playoffs even if a bit underwhelming relatively to his regular seasons. And some players do just figure it out in the playoffs; look at Matthew Tkachuk. He’s a really interesting option.

 

[Cas]

Only Igor Larionov has a higher playoff points per game as a Shark than Marner’s career mark. Some of that is Marner playing in a lower scoring era, some of that is him leeching assists (though his playoff goals per game is also higher than Thornton’s lol), but some of it is him being a legitimately great offensive player (better than any in franchise history besides Thornton) who is still good in the playoffs even if a bit underwhelming relatively to his regular seasons. And some players do just figure it out in the playoffs; look at Matthew Tkachuk. He’s a really interesting option.

Playoffs are always small-sample sizes and subject to all sorts of biases. It happens over and where, where a player is "bad" in the playoffs until they suddenly are not.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Marner is absolutely fantastic and if he legitimately had interest in being a Sharks I'd give him essentially whatever he wants. No chance of that happening, though.

The "playoff choker" label came when he was like 21. He's not 21 anymore.

 

[Dicdonya]

I get what people are saying about Marner, but he seems genuinely bad/overwhelmed in the playoffs

Honestly what Toronto player has not looked bad/overwhelmed in the playoffs in recent times.

Im not saying that Marner has no playoff letdowns/issues but that team as a whole has had some serious issues in the playoffs recently, and while Marner is a part of that he does still have 50pts in 57 games and +10 over his playoff career. That is a dropoff from his regular season play, but its not like he has been absolutely horrible in the playoffs. Compared to Matthews(48 in 55 +2), Nylander (43 in 54 +1) and Tavares (24 in 38 -9) Marner could be argued to be the best of their big boys in the playoffs. Probably also part of why he gets shit on the hardest when things go poorly.

However I look at getting Marner more for how he can help Celebrini, more than I look at Marner as a guy that will be the guy we need to produce in the playoffs for a cup. I think we need to make sure we find someone that can truly hang with Celebrini as a 100+ pt player, which seems like he could be considering he is already close to PPG as an 18yo rookie on a shitty team.

The reality probably is that even with his help this team is still 2+ years away from playoff contention, and cup contention is probably a year or two off from that (these timelines assuming expected growth of prospects and good drafting etc). So 31-32yo Marner at that point will be more like an important, but secondary, contributor to the success of this team. Think of like Stamkos compared to Kucherov. Stamkos was still an important member of their second cup run, but if Kucherov was not doing what he does, that team is not winning a cup.

By the time we are back in a cup window, Celebrini will be our Kucherov, and so we just need our Point, Stamkos, Hedman, Vasi, and I think Marner, Smith, Schaefer and Askarov could be comparable to those guys.

Right now though, I do not think we have our Stamkos type player. So whether its Marner or someone else I think we need that guy. I think Eklund is more of an RNH than a Stamkos, a real good second liner that in the right situation (playing on a PP with McDrai) can be carried to a career year over pt/g, but ultimately is more of a 60-70 pt kinda player.

Anywho, I will not be holding my breath about getting Marner, its a long shot, but I would be happy if we did.

 

[Jwads]

Marner is absolutely fantastic and if he legitimately had interest in being a Sharks I'd give him essentially whatever he wants. No chance of that happening, though.

The "playoff choker" label came when he was like 21. He's not 21 anymore.

My opinion developed from watching him in the 2 most recent playoffs. I wouldn't call him or any player a playoff choker. He at multiple times looked like a "deer in headlights" in my viewings

 

[Barrie22]

Out of the big 4 in toronto, the one that is leading the way offensively in the playoffs is the one everyone says dissapears in the playoffs.

Most points, best +/- by a mile.