Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Juxtaposer]

They also have Vlasic/Korchinksi/Allan on the left side that they've used 1st or 2nd rounders on recently and have played NHL hockey for them. Not that any of those necessarily preclude you from another D-Man, it's just more that they have already invested and seen some return on D that makes me think they'll look for a center to tandem with Bedard if given the chance.

I could see them also go Martone simply because their forward group is so small. Bedard, Nazar, and Moore are all 5'10 or smaller which gives a clear need for some size up front for a guy like Martone. More I think about it, the less likely it is that I see Chicago taking a D-Man that missed 3 months with a collarbone over one of the forwards. Particularly with the outcry of "Bedard has no help" from their fanbase online.

They do have a pretty ridiculous group of young defensemen between Levshunov, Vlasic, Korchinski, Allan, Rinzel, and all the depth guys, but can you say you see a Norris-quality guy in there? Is there even a true #1D in there? I see all the arguments for taking a forward, no doubt, but what if they pass on Schaefer and the best they get out of that group is a #2D?

Just something to consider.

Aside from Provorov, who may not get moved, is there a rental right sided d-man better than Ceci? Provorov is left handed, but does play right. Anderson is better, but has multiple years left. Same for Connor Murphy, though Chicago could retain getting him down to a very cheap $2.2M. Amongst UFAs, Kovacevic isn't going anywhere, and Ceci is better than Borgen and Savard. Can't imagine CBJ let's Fabbro walk given Werenski is having a Norris caliber season with him as his partner.

I'd be disappointed if Ceci didn't bring back a 2nd. Everyone is looking for D depth, but especially on the right side. Wouldn't be surprised if Ferraro got a 2nd as well.

I would be disappointed, but not surprised, if Ceci only returned a 3rd. I personally think someone should pony up a 2nd, like you, I just don't want to get my hopes up.

As you said, I think it'll come down to individual preference between Ceci and Savard for who is the most valuable D at the deadline. Columbus might even opt to keep Provorov if they're still in the playoff hunt at that point.

I don't think Ferraro will get a 2nd, though. Hoglander wouldn't be an exciting return, but I bet he could be flipped for a 3rd, which is good enough for me at this point.

I assume Grier will have some idea whether or not he thinks Thrun is worth keeping around by the end of this season. But either way, we absolutely have to make room for Mukh at the very latest this summer. One of Ferraro and Thrun has to go.

 

[OrrNumber4]

They do have a pretty ridiculous group of young defensemen between Levshunov, Vlasic, Korchinski, Allan, Rinzel, and all the depth guys, but can you say you see a Norris-quality guy in there? Is there even a true #1D in there? I see all the arguments for taking a forward, no doubt, but what if they pass on Schaefer and the best they get out of that group is a #2D?

Just something to consider.

Isn't Levshunov their recent #2 pick? Wouldn't he have, in the least, #1 potential?

 

[Juxtaposer]

Isn't Levshunov their recent #2 pick? Wouldn't he have, in the least, #1 potential?

I don't think the odds are in favor of Levshunov becoming a legit #1D. But I said "what if" to reflect that it's possible...

Again, I get the point of people who are arguing that Chicago won't take Schaefer because they need forwards incredibly badly and they've drafted defensemen in the top-7 two out of the last three years. But let's play the opposite game: what if there was a clone of Macklin Celebrini in this draft and we had the 1st overall pick. Do you pass on a second Celebrini because we have only drafted forwards with our last three top-7 picks? No, you take the second Macklin Celebrini and then you try and trade Will Smith for the best defense prospect you can find.

If I'm Chicago and I have the 1st overall pick, I simply take Schaefer and then I try to trade Korchinski for an equivalent forward prospect.

We can hope that because Chicago passed on BPA for need last year that they'll do it again, but I don't have the confidence they will that many of you seem to.

 

[one2gamble]

There is now way Chicago isnt take the BPA regardless of position. They can move one of the other D prospects easily.

 

[STL Shark]

They do have a pretty ridiculous group of young defensemen between Levshunov, Vlasic, Korchinski, Allan, Rinzel, and all the depth guys, but can you say you see a Norris-quality guy in there? Is there even a true #1D in there? I see all the arguments for taking a forward, no doubt, but what if they pass on Schaefer and the best they get out of that group is a #2D?

Just something to consider.


I would be disappointed, but not surprised, if Ceci only returned a 3rd. I personally think someone should pony up a 2nd, like you, I just don't want to get my hopes up.

As you said, I think it'll come down to individual preference between Ceci and Savard for who is the most valuable D at the deadline. Columbus might even opt to keep Provorov if they're still in the playoff hunt at that point.

I don't think Ferraro will get a 2nd, though. Hoglander wouldn't be an exciting return, but I bet he could be flipped for a 3rd, which is good enough for me at this point.

I assume Grier will have some idea whether or not he thinks Thrun is worth keeping around by the end of this season. But either way, we absolutely have to make room for Mukh at the very latest this summer. One of Ferraro and Thrun has to go.

Schaefer may be the best of that group, but the idea that you need a #1 on D is antiquated to me if you have a solid group overall. Easier to win with a solid group on D that lacks a true #1 than it is to win without any center depth. I think Chicago goes forward at the top of the draft for that reason (plus it buys you some goodwill with your franchise player in Bedard by giving him some help - even if it is just optics).

 

[STL Shark]

I don't think the odds are in favor of Levshunov becoming a legit #1D. But I said "what if" to reflect that it's possible...

Again, I get the point of people who are arguing that Chicago won't take Schaefer because they need forwards incredibly badly and they've drafted defensemen in the top-7 two out of the last three years. But let's play the opposite game: what if there was a clone of Macklin Celebrini in this draft and we had the 1st overall pick. Do you pass on a second Celebrini because we have only drafted forwards with our last three top-7 picks? No, you take the second Macklin Celebrini and then you try and trade Will Smith for the best defense prospect you can find.

If I'm Chicago and I have the 1st overall pick, I simply take Schaefer and then I try to trade Korchinski for an equivalent forward prospect.

We can hope that because Chicago passed on BPA for need last year that they'll do it again, but I don't have the confidence they will that many of you seem to.

Think the issue with the analogy is that Schaefer isn't to D-Men what Celebrini is to Forwards in terms of hype and pedigree. In a world where there is no clear consensus #1, you let positional needs influence that pick. If Schaefer didn't break his collarbone, he might play himself into that #1 overall pick by season's end to overtake Hagens (who has been pegged with this pick since 2-3 years ago).

 

[OrrNumber4]

Schaefer may be the best of that group, but the idea that you need a #1 on D is antiquated to me if you have a solid group overall. Easier to win with a solid group on D that lacks a true #1 than it is to win without any center depth. I think Chicago goes forward at the top of the draft for that reason (plus it buys you some goodwill with your franchise player in Bedard by giving him some help - even if it is just optics).

Let me push back very strongly here. You can win without an elite Norris-quality defenseman, provided you have excellent goaltending and superstar forwards. But, you still need a #1 defenseman (like a Dan Boyle type).

 

[Juxtaposer]

Schaefer may be the best of that group, but the idea that you need a #1 on D is antiquated to me if you have a solid group overall. Easier to win with a solid group on D that lacks a true #1 than it is to win without any center depth. I think Chicago goes forward at the top of the draft for that reason (plus it buys you some goodwill with your franchise player in Bedard by giving him some help - even if it is just optics).

I think I've shared my philosophy on building a Cup-winning defense before, but in case I haven't or it's been a while:

In order to win a Stanley Cup, you need a defenseman who is elite defensively, a defenseman who is elite offensively and can run a top-tier PP unit, and a defenseman who can eat up a truckload of minutes net-positive. Those roles can be filled by one single player (prime Victor Hedman/Drew Doughty/Alex Pietrangelo) or by multiple players (Forsling, Montour, and Ekblad respectively, Vlasic/Burns), so long as they're filled.

If Chicago is 100% convinced that between Vlasic, Levshunov, and Korchinski, they have all those things, then perhaps it makes sense to pass on Schaefer for a forward. Alex Vlasic looks to be an elite defensive defenseman, but I'm just not convinced there's an "elite offensive defenseman-slash-PPQB" in that group. Korchinski hasn't shown a lot of offense as a pro and Levshunov's offense mostly comes via launching as many pucks at the net as possible.

Think the issue with the analogy is that Schaefer isn't to D-Men what Celebrini is to Forwards in terms of hype and pedigree. In a world where there is no clear consensus #1, you let positional needs influence that pick. If Schaefer didn't break his collarbone, he might play himself into that #1 overall pick by season's end to overtake Hagens (who has been pegged with this pick since 2-3 years ago).

I'm coming from a perspective that Schaefer is the clear-cut BPA of this draft. He absolutely has the pedigree, as the 1st overall pick in the OHL and a Gold medal-winner at the U17, Ivan Hlinka, and U18 levels, in addition to being the best player on the Canadian WJC team at age 17.

 

[coooldude]

Levshunov's offense mostly comes via launching as many pucks at the net as possible.

While I personally agree with you (as you may remember from last year - I am not a Levshunov Belieber) ... let's hope that since they picked him over Demidov etc., they think he's got the PPQB thing handled. Even if I don't think he does.

I'm coming from a perspective that Schaefer is the clear-cut BPA of this draft. He absolutely has the pedigree, as the 1st overall pick in the OHL and a Gold medal-winner at the U17, Ivan Hlinka, and U18 levels, in addition to being the best player on the Canadian WJC team at age 17.

I think that given what EP's (and other outlets') polling of scouts and execs said, until we hear otherwise Schaefer is the likely #1OA, with the hope as you and many have stated that Hagens makes a push and is taken 1OA and we get Schaefer at 2-4 wherever lotto balls fall for us.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Let me push back very strongly here. You can win without an elite Norris-quality defenseman, provided you have excellent goaltending and superstar forwards. But, you still need a #1 defenseman (like a Dan Boyle type).

Except Brian Dumolin, 2023 Alex Pietrangelo, and Gustav Forsling aren’t even Dan Boyle types.

 

[Juxtaposer]

While I personally agree with you (as you may remember from last year - I am not a Levshunov Belieber) ... let's hope that since they picked him over Demidov etc., they think he's got the PPQB thing handled. Even if I don't think he does.

We can only hope that because they took him 2nd overall, Chicago thinks they have their #1D set.

 

[TheBeard]

Come on Grier. Trade for Zac Jones alredy.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Except Brian Dumolin, 2023 Alex Pietrangelo, and Gustav Forsling aren’t even Dan Boyle types.

I didn't mean stylistically, but more "at the caliber of", i.e. not elite defenseman but just below that. I can certainly grant you Dumoulin, but still that's one example out of how many teams?

 

[STL Shark]

While I personally agree with you (as you may remember from last year - I am not a Levshunov Belieber) ... let's hope that since they picked him over Demidov etc., they think he's got the PPQB thing handled. Even if I don't think he does.

I think that given what EP's (and other outlets') polling of scouts and execs said, until we hear otherwise Schaefer is the likely #1OA, with the hope as you and many have stated that Hagens makes a push and is taken 1OA and we get Schaefer at 2-4 wherever lotto balls fall for us.

I just feel like with Hagens being the consensus entering the year, someone would have to play him out of that spot. With Schaefer injured, the time to play his way ahead and win the recency bias battle is gone.

With 3 of the top 4 lotto teams right now (CHI, NSH, and BUF) all needing center help more than defense, I think Hagens is the top guy unless SJ wins the lottery. Particularly because all of those teams have needed top 6 center help for the better part of a decade or more.

 

[Celly4Celebrini]

Again, I get the point of people who are arguing that Chicago won't take Schaefer because they need forwards incredibly badly and they've drafted defensemen in the top-7 two out of the last three years. But let's play the opposite game: what if there was a clone of Macklin Celebrini in this draft and we had the 1st overall pick. Do you pass on a second Celebrini because we have only drafted forwards with our last three top-7 picks? No, you take the second Macklin Celebrini and then you try and trade Will Smith for the best defense prospect you can find.

If I'm Chicago and I have the 1st overall pick, I simply take Schaefer and then I try to trade Korchinski for an equivalent forward prospect.

lets say it a Macklin clone and a Macklin lite equivalent on defence, then what do you do. Because its not like Chicago is losing a ton of value. Hagens is a good prospect himself and would be above the caliber of player Korchinski would return. They may prioritze a potential 1C that Korchinski would not return.

 

[Juxtaposer]

lets say it a Macklin clone and a Macklin lite equivalent on defence, then what do you do. Because its not like Chicago is losing a ton of value. Hagens is a good prospect himself and would be above the caliber of player Korchinski would return. They may prioritze a potential 1C that Korchinski would not return.

You take the Macklin clone. You shouldn't draft for need at 1OA if there is a clear-cut BPA, which the Macklin clone would be in this draft. You could explore trading down for the right value, but you probably don't get it.

Kyle Davidson seems pretty stupid, so he may very well do as you say. I just feel like it would be so abjectly stupid that Sharks fans suggesting it'll happen feels like a preemptive cope for when we don't win the lottery.

For all we know, they see Bedard as a 1C and Levshunov as a 2D. You could easily trade Korchinski for a 2C prospect. Hell, 2C isn't exactly the toughest hole to fill down the road. Neither is top-line winger.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Muhk back to the Cuda