Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Exactly, it's just a stopgap solution until Smith (or Hagens/Misa I guess) is ready to take over. Wouldn't hurt our chances at Gavin McKenna either.

There’s like a 50% chance we end up with one of Hagens/Misa at this point.

 

[Hodge]

Duchene is a better player than Granlund in every aspect and he wouldn't cost assets. If the goal is to rely solely on Celebrini and the first line to count for 90% of our scoring thus putting immense unfair pressure on the shoulders of our 19 year old then I guess Wennberg is the guy for the second line, but it's essentially the equivalent of asking Askarov to play a majority of the games behind our defense.

In order to convince Duchene to sign with the Sharks we would be forced to offer a risky long-term contract to a 34 year old who was just bought out 18 months ago. No thanks.

As for relying on Celebrini and the first line for 90% of our offense and asking Askarov to play a majority of games behind our defense...those things are going to happen next season regardless.

 

[TheBeard]

In order to convince Duchene to sign with the Sharks we would be forced to offer a risky long-term contract to a 34 year old who was just bought out 18 months ago. No thanks.

As for relying on Celebrini and the first line for 90% of our offense and asking Askarov to play a majority of games behind our defense...those things are going to happen next season regardless.

So you basically just wanna emulate the Blackhawks template and play the equivalent of Jason Dickson as your second line center.

Just say you wanna keep tanking and don't care about anything else.

 

[coooldude]

If we want to take a step forward next year (and I believe Grier does), the options are pretty simple for 2C:

1. Re-sign Granlund. Ideally 2 years at high AAV to max our options.
2. Trade Granlund for "whatever you can get", and sign a lateral move C FA such as Tavares, Duchene, Marchand, Bennett (none of whom seem that likely or good fit)
3. Same as 2 but Sign a top of class W FA who can play with Smith or Wennberg, such as Rantanen, Marner, Zucker, Benn, Palmieri, Boeser
4. Don't do 2 or 3, and fail to take a step forward, gunning for McKenna/Verhoeff/Bjorck/whoever and risk being stuck in bottom-out mode

Since 2/3 don't feel that realistic, it feels like 1 is the go, but I'm placing a fair bit of trust in Grier to get the right thing done.

 

[Hodge]

So you basically just wanna emulate the Blackhawks template and play the equivalent of Jason Dickson as your second line center.

Just say you wanna keep tanking and don't care about anything else.

I want the Sharks to win the Cup and I'm not sure aggressively upgrading the roster this offseason just to win 5 more games next year is a good way to achieve that goal when there's supposed to be a generational talent available at the top of the draft.

The Blackhawks' problem (one of many) is that Bedard isn't a 1C. He's not even a NHL center so they need more legit support down the middle.

 

[TheBeard]

I want the Sharks to win the Cup and I'm not sure aggressively upgrading the roster this offseason just to win 5 more games next year is a good way to achieve that goal when there's supposed to be a generational talent available at the top of the draft.

The Blackhawks' problem (one of many) is that Bedard isn't a 1C. He's not even a NHL center so they need more legit support down the middle.

Bringing in a competent 2C instead of throwing out 12 4th liners does more than "win 5 more games". It actually helps the younger players develop. Some of y'all literally only think about the on-ice result to define the value of certain players.

It seems every year we say "there's a generational talent on the horizon" and at some point we can't just keep reaching for that holy grail. Chicago's problem is they literally had no young talent at forward prior to Bedard. Reichel was never much and Nazar is basically it. Frankly, why they went Lev over Demidov is just another example of their incompetency. The reality for them is none of their prospects have done anything. They have absolutely no young talent on that team on the current roster. We're not great but outside of Bedard I don't think they have a forward as effective as even a Zetterlund.

 

[sharski]

sell Granlund for whatever we can get, preferably to a team with a decent chance at a cup

then find the next Granlund

trust the process

 

[matt trick]

I think the team needs a lot more time developing the young players they've been bringing in before worrying about replacing a specific role that Granlund fills currently. If Grier's statements about the team being far off are genuine then it should apply to Granlund like it did to Blackwood in terms of getting value for an expiring contract and continuing to invest into the team's future. We still need to develop a few forwards, especially a 2C, and we still need to develop an entire crop of defensemen and we don't have an RHD in the fold of this nature. A lot of these spots will require time and opportunity. We should just rent out what we can, give openings to developing young players where it makes sense, and fill any extra spots with free agents. I think it's reasonable to slot Wennberg into 2C if nobody else is able to take that spot then find a 3C to backfill if Bystedt isn't ready. I think we can get away with putting Vlasic on his final year on the 3RD if Thompson isn't ready or if Pohlkamp needs time. There's enough wiggle room to look at different solutions for Granlund's potential vacancy than a one for one veteran top six center swap.

Your comment on Grier’s statement on the team being far away is an important one. I think it’s more likely than not Granny is moved due to that.

However, I’d say failing to get another first round asset isn’t as big of a deal as not insulating Smith with two legit top 6 forwards next year. Perhaps Celebrini can thrive with Eklund and Kovalenko, leaving Zetts and Tolfolli. In that case we can live without Granny. And maybe Graf-Wenny-Kunin can be a good third line. However, going into next year with Smith, Kovalenko, Zetts, Graf, Wennberg, and Kunin would be a major concern. Grier’s done great with acquiring NHL guys and he’ll have loads of cap space and $3M solving 1C and 1G, but I still wonder if keeping Granny would be better for our team.

If Grier can continue to deliver and has another first rounder to boot, that’d be awesome. Hopefully he can!

 

[Hodge]

Bringing in a competent 2C instead of throwing out 12 4th liners does more than "win 5 more games". It actually helps the younger players develop. Some of y'all literally only think about the on-ice result to define the value of certain players.

It seems every year we say "there's a generational talent on the horizon" and at some point we can't just keep reaching for that holy grail. Chicago's problem is they literally had no young talent at forward prior to Bedard. Reichel was never much and Nazar is basically it. Frankly, why they went Lev over Demidov is just another example of their incompetency. The reality for them is none of their prospects have done anything. They have absolutely no young talent on that team on the current roster. We're not great but outside of Bedard I don't think they have a forward as effective as even a Zetterlund.

We already brought in quality veterans to mentor the kids like Wennberg himself and Toffoli, Goodrow, Dellandrea, Ceci, etc. in contrast to the Blackhawks who brought in soft one-way empty calorie scorers like Hall, Bertuzzi and Teravainen. They're a huge part of why we're more competitive within games compared to last season.

I'm not saying don't replace Granlund at all but you have to be realistic and understand we're almost certainly not going to be able to replace him with a point-per-game center. Even extending Granlund doesn't guarantee that he continues producing at that clip since he's 33. It will be much more feasible to replace him with another Wennberg-level middle six center (maybe Andrew Copp as a cap dump we get paid for taking?)

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Your comment on Grier’s statement on the team being far away is an important one. I think it’s more likely than not Granny is moved due to that.

However, I’d say failing to get another first round asset isn’t as big of a deal as not insulating Smith with two legit top 6 forwards next year. Perhaps Celebrini can thrive with Eklund and Kovalenko, leaving Zetts and Tolfolli. In that case we can live without Granny. And maybe Graf-Wenny-Kunin can be a good third line. However, going into next year with Smith, Kovalenko, Zetts, Graf, Wennberg, and Kunin would be a major concern. Grier’s done great with acquiring NHL guys and he’ll have loads of cap space and $3M solving 1C and 1G, but I still wonder if keeping Granny would be better for our team.

If Grier can continue to deliver and has another first rounder to boot, that’d be awesome. Hopefully he can!

I don't think you have to choose between insulating Smith with two legit top 6 forwards and keeping Granlund though especially when Granlund isn't directly insulating Smith as it is now. I think if the intention is to have Smith start next season on the wing in a top six role, Eklund and Wennberg would be a suitable pairing to put with Smith while Celebrini takes all the top line responsibilities. But if we're going to get blue liners to develop for us, we'll need more especially on the right side and Granlund's rental return could very well be what puts us in a position to get one that works for our timeline.

I just don't see a good argument to turn down the rental option when it's there. We have very few options moving forward to get solid returns that will help the team in the future where those types of adds are what push rebuilds down the correct path. We'll see what happens. I don't expect that Granlund will return a 1st round pick but 2nd rounders are still valuable trade chips compared to an aging and expiring Granlund. I would be open to signing him in the offseason for three years or less but I don't see him as so valuable as a vet that it really makes a difference on how the young players develop. It's not something unique to him.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Your comment on Grier’s statement on the team being far away is an important one. I think it’s more likely than not Granny is moved due to that.

However, I’d say failing to get another first round asset isn’t as big of a deal as not insulating Smith with two legit top 6 forwards next year. Perhaps Celebrini can thrive with Eklund and Kovalenko, leaving Zetts and Tolfolli. In that case we can live without Granny. And maybe Graf-Wenny-Kunin can be a good third line. However, going into next year with Smith, Kovalenko, Zetts, Graf, Wennberg, and Kunin would be a major concern. Grier’s done great with acquiring NHL guys and he’ll have loads of cap space and $3M solving 1C and 1G, but I still wonder if keeping Granny would be better for our team.

If Grier can continue to deliver and has another first rounder to boot, that’d be awesome. Hopefully he can!

Well, let's see what we have.

Eklund-Celebrini-XXX
Kovalenko-Wennberg-Toffoli
Graf-Smith-Zetterlund
Kunin-Bystedt-Goodrow/Dellandrea/etc.

Something like Brock Boeser would be a great option if he'd be down to come over. Or go after Chris Kreider if the Rangers crash and burn. My point is that I actually kinda only think we need a good winger up front.

I also just kinda get the feeling that Granlund might want to move on.

 

[Star Platinum]

Wennberg at 2C would be awful. Dude has only topped 40 points once in over a decade and you want him to be the guy centering the second line on a team already desperate for offense? I'd rather just overpay for Matt Duchene

Wennberg at 2C would be a temporary role until Will Smith or potentially this year's #1 draft pick is ready to assume that role and it's nobody's first choice.

 

[TheBeard]

Wennberg at 2C would be a temporary role until Will Smith or potentially this year's #1 draft pick is ready to assume that role and it's nobody's first choice.

Then I would spend the last month or so focusing on Smith as a 2C once Granlund is traded and letting him sink or swim with Eklund and Toffoli (or Zetterlund).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Then I would spend the last month or so focusing on Smith as a 2C once Granlund is traded and letting him sink or swim with Eklund and Toffoli (or Zetterlund).

Keeping Granlund or not is not going to be the determining factor on whether we improve next year. What we do to address our blue line will make the biggest strides towards our viability as a competitive team. I don't know what the answers are there though.

But I fully agree with moving Smith back to the pivot to finish this season in that scenario.

 

[pappaf2]

If we want to take a step forward next year (and I believe Grier does), the options are pretty simple for 2C:

1. Re-sign Granlund. Ideally 2 years at high AAV to max our options.
2. Trade Granlund for "whatever you can get", and sign a lateral move C FA such as Tavares, Duchene, Marchand, Bennett (none of whom seem that likely or good fit)
3. Same as 2 but Sign a top of class W FA who can play with Smith or Wennberg, such as Rantanen, Marner, Zucker, Benn, Palmieri, Boeser
4. Don't do 2 or 3, and fail to take a step forward, gunning for McKenna/Verhoeff/Bjorck/whoever and risk being stuck in bottom-out mode

Since 2/3 don't feel that realistic, it feels like 1 is the go, but I'm placing a fair bit of trust in Grier to get the right thing done.

Good thing with option #1 is the sharks should have a retention slot open at that point so granny could be traded even with a high AAV contract since the sharks could retain some of his salary.