Shark Finn
uɐℲ ɥʇ8 ,sǝıddn⅁
The only upside Puljujärvi provides are those .gifs where he picks his nose with his tongue. No thanks.
Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion
- Thread starter WTFetus
- Start date
If you asked this question 2 years ago the some on then board was ready to trade a 1st for him.
Of course Granlund will get some kind of return. I think the Sharks are just in a position with him where the market is not ready to pony up Grier's trigger price. And the market may never be ready because the leverage just isn't the same as it was with Blackwood. I think the most likely Granlund rental deal looks like a 2nd round pick and another reasonably useful midlevel asset. I think the Sharks want a 1st to pull the trigger and aren't getting that yet because there's less of a need to get someone like Granlund and/or less belief in him being an answer for a team. I hope a team gets itchy enough to send the Sharks a 1st. The team can use another 1st in the latter half of the round more than they can use Granlund moving forward. That's not to say he isn't useful because he is and can be but that pick moreso. We need more expendable future assets that can either develop into a useful NHL'er or can be moved for one. Celebrini being as dominant as he is and Wennberg being pretty capable can cover a lot of what we'll lose when Granlund is traded but it allows us to use more resources in areas that would help the team compete better.
hohosaregood
Banned
- Sep 1, 2011
- 33,409
- 14,199
I'd take Puljujarvi just to push some more guys out of the top 9. Marginal improvement.
gritdash60
Registered User
And how a 2nd and a prospect isnt good for UFA? LOL what the f*** you want?
I surely will read this wall of text, no problem sir.
It's ten sentences, bruh. Read them or don't. It's whatever.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
If you can't read one paragraph, I have to wonder why you're on a message board.
My absolute favorite response to a well thought out post is "I can't read".
gritdash60
Registered User
Yeah i wont. Paragraphs (English) my man (motherf), do you speak it?
One paragraph when its worth 17 isn't really a paragraph.
zombie kopitar
custom title
- Jul 3, 2009
- 6,213
- 1,258
gritdash60
Registered User
He is a bad player, or you asking for source for tongue gifs?
The effort needed to read and react in a constructive way was here in this post of yours I'm quoting. You read three sentences then used parentheses to respond. You're just lazy.
Shark Finn
uɐℲ ɥʇ8 ,sǝıddn⅁
zombie kopitar
custom title
- Jul 3, 2009
- 6,213
- 1,258
imagine what that type ingenuity would look like next to Celebrini; lock him up for 4 years minimum, he's just hitting his prime
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
Kill it with fire.
hockeyball
Registered User
- Nov 10, 2007
- 21,572
- 1,017
I think the Shark's will likely go back to winning games when Walman is back (and Eklund to a slightly lesser degree) but I think this highlights a couple major problems I can see (long term problems, before we can "really" contend) and I'm pretty sure MGGM is planning to address.
In order:
1) Lack of offensive talent on the Blue Line.
2) Inconsistent defensive awareness from the team.
3) Lack of offense from the forwards.
To clarify and comment on each of those before someone jumps all over me.
Lack of offensive talent on the Blue line:
A single offensive defensemen, no matter how good, is not sufficient in the modern NHL. Walman while playing extremely well is not a #1 offensive defensemen. He's a great #2-#3, but we need more. Either someone of similar production on each pairing, or a high end #1 on the top pairing and Walman on a 2nd pairing. If a team cannot ice a defense that is a threat to score then opposing teams can cheat and overcover the forwards stifling offense. This is likely leading to reduced production from the forwards overall as they do not have room to maneuver. Also it will lead to more giveaways as they are forced to make more risky passes and plays to try and get points when over-covered.
Inconsistent defensive awareness from the team:
This likely comes down to one primary thing, youth, and is to be expected to some degree. Of course coaching and chemistry plays a roll, and while defensive specialists can help band aid these kinds of situations, I don't think any roster changes really are needed here. The team just needs time to learn to play defense, trust each other, and make the right decisions quickly and effectively. Having a reliable goalie can play a big roll here as well and I think is a good argument for making Askarov the #1 goalie immediately and going forward. Especially since Askarov is a puck moving goalie, the team needs time to learn to play in front of him. When to jump in and help him and when to get out of the way and let him see the puck, etc. Good teams know their goalie has their back and build a system that leverages that. The sooner the Sharks can get consistent lines established, get a quality goalie in net most nights, and get used to playing with one another the quicker the team defense will improve.
Lack of offense from forwards
Yes, Celebrini is amazing, but we won't win a cup with the entire team relying on him to win it for us every night. A lot of what I said above will improve this situation by relieving pressure off the forwards and giving them time and space to operate, but I do think some roster changes may be in order long term. Celebrini and Granlund are pretty ideal top-2 centers (if Granlund stays, if not swap Granlund with Smith hopefully) but someone needs to either step up and fill that 3rd line center roll (assuming Wennberg stays around as 4th line center for faceoffs) like Kostin or Kunin and not only provide good defensive hockey but consistent production. That leaves the wings, and there's a bit more issue here. Zetterlund and Eklund are good top-2 line LW's (putting either where they have the best chemistry) but neither is elite yet. RW though we basically do not have a natural top-2 line right wing on the roster currently. Taffoli is the closest, and I while he is a serviceable top-line RW if the center and LW are elite level, I'm not convinced Zetterlund or Eklund will ever be that). Meaning basically we need at least 1 elite level winger in order to construct two top lines that are contender quality. Hopefully one of the kids can fill that roll, but that might take years before they are ready and unless we get another first overall and choose a winger, it may end up being a timing issue (window wise). I know we've got some great prospects in the system, and hopefully one or two of them will really pan out (not saying they won't), just we need someone to fill that roll in the next 2-3 years or it's going to shorten our window when it opens.
Finally this leaves the following players with big huge question marks hanging over their heads:
Sturm, Grundstrum, Goodrow, Dellandrea, and on D Ceci, Rutta, and probably Liljegren. I've pretty much written off most of those guys at this point except Liljegren honestly. I still have hope for guys like Kovalenko, Kostin, Kunin, Thrun, and Muhk. Ferraro I just have no damn idea, one minute I think he's our new Jason Demers and the next minute I'm not even sure how he got to the NHL... The guy gives inconsistent a whole new meaning.
I'm curious given those perceived holes what the folks who get to watch out prospects regularly think. Do we have pieces to fill those spots in next 2-3 seasons? Will we need to make trades? I think we are in a great spot either way, but obviously whatever we can fill from within will cost us less in the long run.
In order:
1) Lack of offensive talent on the Blue Line.
2) Inconsistent defensive awareness from the team.
3) Lack of offense from the forwards.
To clarify and comment on each of those before someone jumps all over me.
Lack of offensive talent on the Blue line:
A single offensive defensemen, no matter how good, is not sufficient in the modern NHL. Walman while playing extremely well is not a #1 offensive defensemen. He's a great #2-#3, but we need more. Either someone of similar production on each pairing, or a high end #1 on the top pairing and Walman on a 2nd pairing. If a team cannot ice a defense that is a threat to score then opposing teams can cheat and overcover the forwards stifling offense. This is likely leading to reduced production from the forwards overall as they do not have room to maneuver. Also it will lead to more giveaways as they are forced to make more risky passes and plays to try and get points when over-covered.
Inconsistent defensive awareness from the team:
This likely comes down to one primary thing, youth, and is to be expected to some degree. Of course coaching and chemistry plays a roll, and while defensive specialists can help band aid these kinds of situations, I don't think any roster changes really are needed here. The team just needs time to learn to play defense, trust each other, and make the right decisions quickly and effectively. Having a reliable goalie can play a big roll here as well and I think is a good argument for making Askarov the #1 goalie immediately and going forward. Especially since Askarov is a puck moving goalie, the team needs time to learn to play in front of him. When to jump in and help him and when to get out of the way and let him see the puck, etc. Good teams know their goalie has their back and build a system that leverages that. The sooner the Sharks can get consistent lines established, get a quality goalie in net most nights, and get used to playing with one another the quicker the team defense will improve.
Lack of offense from forwards
Yes, Celebrini is amazing, but we won't win a cup with the entire team relying on him to win it for us every night. A lot of what I said above will improve this situation by relieving pressure off the forwards and giving them time and space to operate, but I do think some roster changes may be in order long term. Celebrini and Granlund are pretty ideal top-2 centers (if Granlund stays, if not swap Granlund with Smith hopefully) but someone needs to either step up and fill that 3rd line center roll (assuming Wennberg stays around as 4th line center for faceoffs) like Kostin or Kunin and not only provide good defensive hockey but consistent production. That leaves the wings, and there's a bit more issue here. Zetterlund and Eklund are good top-2 line LW's (putting either where they have the best chemistry) but neither is elite yet. RW though we basically do not have a natural top-2 line right wing on the roster currently. Taffoli is the closest, and I while he is a serviceable top-line RW if the center and LW are elite level, I'm not convinced Zetterlund or Eklund will ever be that). Meaning basically we need at least 1 elite level winger in order to construct two top lines that are contender quality. Hopefully one of the kids can fill that roll, but that might take years before they are ready and unless we get another first overall and choose a winger, it may end up being a timing issue (window wise). I know we've got some great prospects in the system, and hopefully one or two of them will really pan out (not saying they won't), just we need someone to fill that roll in the next 2-3 years or it's going to shorten our window when it opens.
Finally this leaves the following players with big huge question marks hanging over their heads:
Sturm, Grundstrum, Goodrow, Dellandrea, and on D Ceci, Rutta, and probably Liljegren. I've pretty much written off most of those guys at this point except Liljegren honestly. I still have hope for guys like Kovalenko, Kostin, Kunin, Thrun, and Muhk. Ferraro I just have no damn idea, one minute I think he's our new Jason Demers and the next minute I'm not even sure how he got to the NHL... The guy gives inconsistent a whole new meaning.
I'm curious given those perceived holes what the folks who get to watch out prospects regularly think. Do we have pieces to fill those spots in next 2-3 seasons? Will we need to make trades? I think we are in a great spot either way, but obviously whatever we can fill from within will cost us less in the long run.
tahoesharksfan
Old Timer
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
Should probably bleach Puljujarvi's tongue while you're at it. We know where it's been.
karltonian
Registered User
- Jan 1, 2023
- 2,702
- 3,238
jMoneyBrah
Registered User
Between this, and how NHL helmets fit his head, I’m pretty sure 4 out of 5 NHL anthropometrists agree: his NHL career is toast.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
TL;DR for those who can't read more than three sentences at a time: I think we need to trade for a legit top-4 defenseman (a Walman quality of player) this summer and then a top-6 winger (the "reverse Timo Meier trade", as I've been thinking about it) the following summer (or in-season 2025-2026) for this team to start to coalesce into a real thing. Our biggest hole, #1D, almost certainly needs to be addressed via the draft.
Eklund-Celebrini-XXX
XXX-Smith-XXX
XXX-XXX-Zetterlund
XXX-XXX-XXX
XXX-XXX
XXX-XXX
Mukhamadullin-Liljegren
Askarov
XXX
Working solely with what we have already in the NHL, this would be my long-term framework. Franchise 1C is taken care of. I believe in Smith becoming a good 2C (60-65 points and not a liability defensively). I like Zetterlund as a long-term piece, I just don't think he belongs in the top-6 of a contending team unless it's the third wheel to two legit superstars (ie Thornton/Pavelski, don't think Eklund quite gets there).
I know there are some competing opinions on Liljegren, and he obviously isn't a world-beater, but given how scarce RHD who are mobile and can move the puck are, I think we should keep him around. Mukhamadullin has shown me enough to project him as a #5D at worst, and best case he is a legit middle pairing type of guy that all contender quality teams have on their bottom pairings.
Askarov is Askarov. He's already so good and yet also clearly has so much room for improvement. I think the goal this summer should be to sign a very good backup/1B type of goaltender who can give us 30 starts and step in if Askarov falters at any point during the season. I think he has the potential to be the second best player on this team, and lord knows elite goaltending can cover up a lot of deficiencies in skaters.
Now if you add in things that we have in the system, but not in the NHL, I would put it like this:
Eklund-Celebrini-XXX
Musty-Smith-XXX
Chernyshov-Bystedt-Zetterlund
Cardwell-XXX/Svoboda-XXX
XXX-XXX
Dickinson-XXX
Mukhamadullin-Liljegren
Cagnoni
Askarov
XXX
So to me, the big holes that we currently have organizationally are, assuming the goal is to contend for a Stanley Cup consistently:
1. True #1D
2. 1st line RW at least as good as Eklund
3. Guy who can complement a true #1D and play top pairing minutes (does not have to be a true #2D)--someone like Dante Fabbro/John Marino, these types are always available
4. Low-event #4 RHD--also someone like Dante Fabbro/John Marino
5. Top-6 winger who meshes with Smith
Other than "True #1D", the good thing is that the rest of these needs can absolutely be addressed via trade, UFA, and non-lottery picks. Huge reason why I'm all-in on Schaefer.
If you do land Schaefer, then you can start going in on trades and exiting the rebuild.
Eklund-Celebrini-[Reverse Timo Meier trade]
Musty-Smith-[2026 ~10th overall pick]
Chernyshov-Bystedt-Zetterlund
Cardwell-[UFA/Svoboda]-[Svoboda/UFA]
Schaefer-[Trade]
Dickinson-[Trade/UFA]
Mukhamadullin-Liljegren
Cagnoni
Askarov
[UFA]
If we don't land Schaefer and instead get someone like Hagens/Misa/Martone, then your forward group is basically taken care of, but the D-core is more of a problem. You probably have to get more creative to solve the problem. It's hard to project a team with a hole as big as "True #1D".
Bottom line is we have most of the important pieces in the system. Other than #1D, the rest are things that I think we can pursue in trades and UFA starting this summer.
Obviously, this is not taking into consideration veterans, who will presumably come into and out of the lineup over the years, as there's always changeover. I'm not totally sold on Musty as a 2LW, so maybe he needs to drop in the lineup and 2LW becomes a need too. Maybe Halttunen works out and Musty doesn't. But again, second line winger isn't something I'm terribly concerned with.
There's a lot to like with this franchise. Still missing that one last elite piece...
jMoneyBrah
Registered User
This comment has more than 9 words in it. I can’t possibly be expected to read all this
Patty Ice
Mighty Luca
It's not even a one time thing. He does it on the regular.
PattyLafontaine
Registered User
- Apr 5, 2006
- 2,924
- 1,338
My phasing was poor. Meant Granlund + smallish/mediaum cap dump = 1st and low/medium prospect
Mr Fahrenheit
Valar Morghulis
- Oct 9, 2009
- 7,913
- 4,083
Patty Ice
Mighty Luca
This comment has more than 9 words in it. I can’t possibly be expected to read all this
I just look for posts with pictures in them.
Like this.
