Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[sharski]

I've finally found a use for my powers

In b4 weastern bias monetizes this with a subscription-based model as part of HFBoards Nitro

 

[Hodge]

It's also pretty insulting to a guy who just had a perfectly decent game on Thursday and, while he hasn't developed like we'd hoped, doesn't have a bad attitude and is trying to get better (and has mostly played this year with Rutta, whom others have struggled with as well).

You know who hasn’t struggled with Rutta? Mukhamadullin.

 

[timorous me]

You know who hasn’t struggled with Rutta? Mukhamadullin.

I like Shak and a lot of what he's done so far but I don't think he's been at his best. I'd like to see him or Thrun get a chance with Liljegren. Not your favorite, but I think it could benefit young d-men to play with a better puck mover--both of them struggle most when hemmed in their zone (obviously), but Rutta just isn't so great these days at skating or passing the puck out for exits.

 

[weastern bias]

In b4 weastern bias monetizes this with a subscription-based model as part of HFBoards Nitro

25 cents per meme posted, 50 cents per gif, 75 cents per incoherent nickname

All prices in USD

Daddy needs a new pair of shoes

 

[Star Platinum]

25 cents per meme posted, 50 cents per gif, 75 cents per incoherent nickname

All prices in USD

Daddy needs a new pair of shoes

I'm going to go broke

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

You know who hasn’t struggled with Rutta? Mukhamadullin.

Its the Czech-Russo Slavik language connection

 

[Zarzh]

The way I see it is that Warsofsky sees the lines as having different jobs. The 4th line is chasing down pucks, playing simple and safe hockey, etc. He seems to like putting his young guys on that line when they’re struggling because — and this is just me guessing but I think it makes sense — he wants them to go out and not overthink, play simply, etc.

He GENERALLY moves that young guy up like a period into the game, so I wouldn’t worry too much about it. I expect the same to happen to Smith.

The concerning thing is he still doesn't get what works with Smith. You want a player who can create space and also will shoot the puck.

 

[Juxtaposer]

The concerning thing is he still doesn't get what works with Smith. You want a player who can create space and also will shoot the puck.

You mean Will Smith won't succeed on a line that exclusively dumps and chases the puck???? That's crazy talk.

 

[Star Platinum]

The concerning thing is he still doesn't get what works with Smith. You want a player who can create space and also will shoot the puck.

Put him with Celebrini and Kovalenko and leave them alone for the rest of the year.

 

[Zarzh]

You mean Will Smith won't succeed on a line that exclusively dumps and chases the puck???? That's crazy talk.

I'd go a step further and say the Eklund-Wennberg-Smith idea was terrible.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

You mean Will Smith won't succeed on a line that exclusively dumps and chases the puck???? That's crazy talk.

Mind blowing stuff huh? I know we're all fans and nor NHL coaches but sometimes I wonder if any of us would be better at making line ups than Wario is sometimes

 

[coooldude]

My opinion is, these things are both true:

• Smith would play better if he was higher in the lineup
• He's not higher in the lineup because putting him there might make his teammates / those lines play worse

He's not doing great since back from his little injury. Yeah, he'd look better with Celebrini, but I don't think Celebrini would look better with Smith than he does with Toffoli. I'm open to them trying it, but I don't think it's likely. Smith just has way too much to work on. I would say put him back with Granlund, but Granlund looks like trash the last few games since his head hits as well.

 

[Star Platinum]

My opinion is, these things are both true:

• Smith would play better if he was higher in the lineup
• He's not higher in the lineup because putting him there might make his teammates / those lines play worse

He's not doing great since back from his little injury. Yeah, he'd look better with Celebrini, but I don't think Celebrini would look better with Smith than he does with Toffoli. I'm open to them trying it, but I don't think it's likely. Smith just has way too much to work on. I would say put him back with Granlund, but Granlund looks like trash the last few games since his head hits as well.

Celebrini looks good because of Celebrini. This move is for Smith's benefit, not Celebrini's. I think someone who looks to make creative passes probably can help a guy like Celebrini score a bit more when he skates to open areas, but I just care about Smith's offensive skill being valued by his coach. I don't care one whit about punishing him for defensive mistakes by putting him on lines where he doesn't belong.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Celebrini looks good because of Celebrini. This move is for Smith's benefit, not Celebrini's. I think someone who looks to make creative passes probably can help a guy like Celebrini score a bit more when he skates to open areas, but I just care about Smith's offensive skill being valued by his coach. I don't care one whit about punishing him for defensive mistakes by putting him on lines where he doesn't belong.

Pretty much. We're not making thr playoffs. Just let Smith do Smith things.

On another note preaching about "Playing the Right Way" but have Goodrow, Rutta, and Ferraro out on a regular basis not get demoted/scratched for stupid shit has to.be demoralizing when he gets scratched. At this rate this accountability spiel is a farce.

 

[coooldude]

You guys, I get the frustration with Smith not being catered to, but the dude is not playing very good NHL hockey. Ferraro isn't playing terribly lately, actually he's been playing pretty solidly. Rutta as well. Goodrow, can't make excuses for him, he's been pretty poor. But as much as Goodrow has been poor, Smith has made boneheaded teenage mistakes that lead to goals and strong chances against. He gets knocked off pucks, he's tentative on the forecheck and in his own zone. He's stagnated since a big flourish pre injury.

It's not hypocritical of the coaches to move Goodrow up and down the lineup while not doing the same for Smith. I personally would rather keep Celebrini with the best possible players, and Smith unfortunately suffers a tiny bit. That said, most of the time people whine on here about line combos, within 1-2 games the coaching staff tries what people are whining about. So maybe we'll see Kovalenko-Celebrini-Smith soon, and hopefully it works for Smith, but I would predict, at this point, the line just loses possession more and only has good chances on the rush.

Smith is a slow cooker. I am not going to fret when he's on the 3rd or 4th line or scratched this year. We need him to be good 2+ years from now, and some of that is learning how to play responsible hockey.

 

[Star Platinum]

Smith has made boneheaded teenage mistakes that lead to goals and strong chances against. He gets knocked off pucks, he's tentative on the forecheck and in his own zone. He's stagnated since a big flourish pre injury.

I have pointed out and acknowledged many of those same things.

It's not hypocritical of the coaches to move Goodrow up and down the lineup while not doing the same for Smith.

I can't think of anything more hypocritical. Goodrow has done nothing to earn a promotion off of the bottom six. He's being promoted by default because Warsofsky thinks he's motivating Smith to be better, despite no evidence that it's actually working.

Frankly, I'm very underwhelmed by Warsofsky. Any improvement in performance this team has shown this year has either been due to Celebrini returning from injury or better players joining the team IMO.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

You guys, I get the frustration with Smith not being catered to, but the dude is not playing very good NHL hockey. Ferraro isn't playing terribly lately, actually he's been playing pretty solidly. Rutta as well. Goodrow, can't make excuses for him, he's been pretty poor. But as much as Goodrow has been poor, Smith has made boneheaded teenage mistakes that lead to goals and strong chances against. He gets knocked off pucks, he's tentative on the forecheck and in his own zone. He's stagnated since a big flourish pre injury.

It's not hypocritical of the coaches to move Goodrow up and down the lineup while not doing the same for Smith. I personally would rather keep Celebrini with the best possible players, and Smith unfortunately suffers a tiny bit. That said, most of the time people whine on here about line combos, within 1-2 games the coaching staff tries what people are whining about. So maybe we'll see Kovalenko-Celebrini-Smith soon, and hopefully it works for Smith, but I would predict, at this point, the line just loses possession more and only has good chances on the rush.

Smith is a slow cooker. I am not going to fret when he's on the 3rd or 4th line or scratched this year. We need him to be good 2+ years from now, and some of that is learning how to play responsible hockey.

I wanna believe. I know we all seen his hot stretch before he got injured. Wonder what changed since then

 

[Alaskanice]

I wanna believe. I know we all seen his hot stretch before he got injured. Wonder what changed since then

Nothing we are privy to.
I believe. That’s just me.

 

[Lebanezer]

I can say that the organization is aware that Smith probably should be in the AHL, but they’re not going to send him down.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

I have pointed out and acknowledged many of those same things.


I can't think of anything more hypocritical. Goodrow has done nothing to earn a promotion off of the bottom six. He's being promoted by default because Warsofsky thinks he's motivating Smith to be better, despite no evidence that it's actually working.

Frankly, I'm very underwhelmed by Warsofsky. Any improvement in performance this team has shown this year has either been due to Celebrini returning from injury or better players joining the team IMO.

It’s not hypocritical if Barclay is in the positions, forechecking, and backchecking the way the coaching staff is asking and Smith isn’t. For all the hyperbolic criticism of playing “the right way”; ultimately, accountability means that if a player is playing the way the coaches are asking they’ll get rewarded, or at least not demoted. And if they’re not, then it’s the coaches discretion if they’re doing enough to hold their spot in the lineup.

It would be one thing if Smith was getting some results despite a lack of details in his game - but that hasn’t been the case in the last run of games.

To be clear; I’m all for allowing Smith space to develop. I’m just also not going to get all bent out of shape if he gets moved around the lineup and spends stretches in the bottom six over the course of the season.

Ultimately, I’m very much not all that concerned with Smith’s point totals this year, beyond hoping he’ll put up something respectable. I think we can all see that Smith has a head for the offensive side of the game; but I’m hoping he can eventually develop into something more than an empty calories offense only player.

Spending time playing with the guys that must play detailed games and bang in the corners to stick in the NHL isn’t the worst way for a young guy to add some facets to his game.

Warso has provided Smith with ample opportunity, and has rewarded good stretches with better line mates and more playing time. But it cuts both ways and when Smith has struggled or been a non-factor his deployment reflects that. Seems all very sensible to me.

It’s not like Warso has it in for the kids. Celebrini is getting a ton of ice time because it’s easy to see the coaching staff trusts he’ll play a responsible game in all three zones.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

To be clear; I’m all for allowing Smith space to develop. I’m just also not going to get all bent out of shape if he gets moved around the lineup and spends stretches in the bottom six over the course of the season.

If Warsofsky is just gonna jerk him around he should just be in the AHL to be frank. The lack of consistency is just as harmful as playing with plugs. I dunno. At this point it's whatever and I think Mirco Mueller 2.0 is a possibility we should be prepared for, for better or for worse.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I can say that the organization is aware that Smith probably should be in the AHL, but they’re not going to send him down.

I don’t have a problem with him staying in the NHL. I just don’t want it to come at the expense of a prospect that could use a cup of coffee. It shouldn’t either when we have numerous players we wouldn’t get worse by losing like Goodrow, Kostin, Dellandrea, and Grundstrom. I think Graf should be given a look at this stage.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

If Warsofsky is just gonna jerk him around he should just be in the AHL to be frank. The lack of consistency is just as harmful as playing with plugs. I dunno. At this point it's whatever and I think Mirco Mueller 2.0 is a possibility we should be prepared for, for better or for worse.

I’m pretty sure Smith would prefer the current state of his ice time under Warso than riding a bus in the AHL. If you have an org talking about “development days” from the drop, I think it’s pretty clear there was anticipation this year was likely to be difficult for Smith.

It wasn’t a forgone conclusion that Smith was undeniably ready to come out of college and directly into the NHL. I’d guess Grier and the rest of the org are not all that surprised at how things have gone so far; and probably view his development as about on schedule so far this season.

I know this is a hockey discussion forum, but I’ll never understand why so many feel the need to prognosticate on future outcomes, especially not even 30 games into his career. He would be far from the first young player to struggle early and go on to have much greater success.

Chill. Let the season play out. Enjoy the ride. Take stock in the off season.

 

[TheBeard]

I wanna believe. I know we all seen his hot stretch before he got injured. Wonder what changed since then

It was a 4 game stretch. The whole team was clicking. That’s not gonna be the norm this season.

 

[Patty Ice]

Run Smith we with Kunin and Eklund. Keep Mack with Toffoli and Kovy. Still have an all Swede line just now the Berglund. There ya go.

Kovalenko-Celebrini-Toffoli
Wenneberg-Granlund-Zetterlund
Eklund-Smith-Kunin
Goodrow-Sturm-Insert dude here