Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[weastern bias]

It's hard to account for what could happen in the future, but I'd be disappointed if the Sharks weren't at least a playoff team in the 2026-2027 season. Keep in mind that cycles are shorter than ever.


Mitigating circumstances in both cases

Is Gauthier a top-tier prospect, though?

There is no actual evidence that rebuild cycles have shortened, every cup winner since the 2015 Blackhawks took over half a decade to build and assemble their winning team

Of course there were mitigating circumstances, as there would be in a Tkachuk trade

Yes, Gauthier was one of the most hyped prospects yet to play in the league, there's a reason that deal garnered so much attention, he was by far the better player on the same BC team as Will Smith and was a greater impact player on the WJC team as well

 

[TheBeard]

You know that trade protections on picks sliding means that the pick becomes unprotected the following year, right? So if we made the trade you're suggesting, we're giving up Musty and a very real shot at Gavin McKenna.

If Tkachuk can't pull Ottawa out of the basement, what makes you think he can pull the Sharks out? Ottawa has an established, proven #1C and an established, proven #1D, and still stinks. It takes more than two or three good players to escape the bottom of the standings.

I'll simply repeat my refrain for why I am not in favor of trading for Noah Dobson right now either: other than Celebrini, we have no sure bets to be core players. I like to think that Smith/Askarov/Dickinson/Eklund/2025 1st will be core players, but none of them have proven that yet and until at least two more of them do, we cannot make any kind of big trade for a non-controlled asset.

Ottawa sucks because they're literally getting nothing from their forwards outside of their top line and Ullmark has been a disaster. The biggest difference is they're banking on older journeymen like Gaudette and Giroux to help lead the charge while we're merely waiting on young kids like Smith and Eklund to become bonafide top 6 players. It doesn't help that Jake Sanderson has taken a massive step back. Really, outside of the 2020 draft their drafting has been simply horrific.

Ottawa is just a toxic organization that has issues far beyond what's on the ice. I admire Grier's attempt to address all faucets. Something most GMs aren't capable of.

 

[weastern bias]

Askarov nor Cutter would have been moved if they didn't demand a trade out. It kind of put the team behind the 8-ball in terms of what the return would be. Drysdale was already damaged goods hence why a 2nd was attached to him.

I don't know if I put Byram (or Mittelstadt for that matter) in the same boat. I honestly wouldn't mind Grier keeping his eyes open for guys in that mould. I still stand by the idea of signing Chychrun in the offseason if he was interested in coming aboard. I think it's easier to find capable top 4 d-men in free agency than top line forwards just entering their prime.

Look, I'm not saying you're wrong in your blueprint, but I do think obtaining a player like Celebrini expedites any rebuild, especially since he's proven he's capable of being the guy (even if he's not there yet).

Byram was a #4 pick and is 23 years old, he's right in line

Any move like this has extenuating circumstances, this move would be no different

 

[TheBeard]

Byram was a #4 pick and is 23 years old, he's right in line

Any move like this has extenuating circumstances, this move would be no different

I mean sure. Any player getting traded is for extenuating circumstances, but there's a difference between a team simply moving in a different direction and a player demanding to be traded.

Anyways, I've enjoyed this debate. Hope no hard feelings. I can see your side and understand where you're coming from.

 

[Hodge]

Yes we need a #1 defenseman but we need another elite forward just as much. You can’t win the Cup without (at least) two elite first line forwards. Mack is likely to be one but I don’t see another available in this year’s draft, Smith looks like an iffy bet to reach that level and none of our other prospects or young players are even in the conversation.

Brady Tkachuk may not be at that level either but he’s not far off and he plays a style of game that should lead to his production remaining steady in the playoffs. If not Brady we need a plan to add another elite forward beyond praying for McKenna.

 

[Jargon]

Yes we need a #1 defenseman but we need another elite forward just as much. You can’t win the Cup without (at least) two elite first line forwards. Mack is likely to be one but I don’t see another available in this year’s draft, Smith looks like an iffy bet to reach that level and none of our other prospects or young players are even in the conversation.

Brady Tkachuk may not be at that level either but he’s not far off and he plays a style of game that should lead to his production remaining steady in the playoffs. If not Brady we need a plan to add another elite forward beyond praying for McKenna.

Way too early to be iffy on Smith.

The fact is, it’s much easier to get a guy like Tkachuk in FA or in trade than a #1D. We can’t mortgage the future for Tkachuk because we’ve got enough guys in the system (Chernyshov, Musty, even Lund) who could potentially fill the power forward hole but our defensive depth is very, very poor. I’m not mortgaging our future for a winger.

 

[Alaskanice]

Way too early to be iffy on Smith.

The fact is, it’s much easier to get a guy like Tkachuk in FA or in trade than a #1D. We can’t mortgage the future for Tkachuk because we’ve got enough guys in the system (Chernyshov, Musty, even Lund) who could potentially fill the power forward hole but our defensive depth is very, very poor. I’m not mortgaging our future for a winger.

I get your point but Brady is not just a power forward. He has so much skill.

 

[weastern bias]

I mean sure. Any player getting traded is for extenuating circumstances, but there's a difference between a team simply moving in a different direction and a player demanding to be traded.

Anyways, I've enjoyed this debate. Hope no hard feelings. I can see your side and understand where you're coming from.

Of course no hard feelings, we all want the same thing in the end, for the Sharks to compete at the highest level

 

[OrrNumber4]

There is no actual evidence that rebuild cycles have shortened, every cup winner since the 2015 Blackhawks took over half a decade to build and assemble their winning team

Of course there were mitigating circumstances, as there would be in a Tkachuk trade

Yes, Gauthier was one of the most hyped prospects yet to play in the league, there's a reason that deal garnered so much attention, he was by far the better player on the same BC team as Will Smith and was a greater impact player on the WJC team as well

I meant more that Askarov is a goaltender who demanded a trade, and Byram has a serious injury history.

I don't think Gauthier is seen as a future superstar...

 

[weastern bias]

Brady Tkachuk is not close to being an elite player, he's not even as good as Timo Meier, honestly I accidentally nailed the comp with Evander Kane, he's basically a better version of Kane

I don't think Gauthier is seen as a future superstar...

He isn't, but neither is Smith or Dickinson, they're all similar tiers of prospect, potential 1st liners/1st pair guys but not franchise cornerstone talents

 

[Juxtaposer]

Yes we need a #1 defenseman but we need another elite forward just as much. You can’t win the Cup without (at least) two elite first line forwards. Mack is likely to be one but I don’t see another available in this year’s draft, Smith looks like an iffy bet to reach that level and none of our other prospects or young players are even in the conversation.

Brady Tkachuk may not be at that level either but he’s not far off and he plays a style of game that should lead to his production remaining steady in the playoffs. If not Brady we need a plan to add another elite forward beyond praying for McKenna.

We do need another elite forward in addition to Macklin, no doubt, but Brady Tkachuk ain't him.

 

[OrrNumber4]

We do need another elite forward in addition to Macklin, no doubt, but Brady Tkachuk ain't him.

Yes. Seems like this is a textbook case of the Sharks needing to "wait and see". This is not a competitive team where the window is closing and maybe Tkachuk is a missing piece so you can fork over some futures for him...there's no rush.

Once your core is locked in, that's the time to move around pieces to fill holes.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Anyways, speaking of elite forwards:

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Anyways, speaking of elite forwards:

That’s why I say he’s better then Bedard right now, I’d say he’s a generational talent

 

[karltonian]

It is kind of incredible watching him operate. Once he gets a good line going, the sky is the limit!

 

[Shark Finn]

That’s why I say he’s better then Bedard right now, I’d say he’s a generational talent

A generational Celebrini.

 

[spintops]

If the Sharks are ready to compete in 2-3 years they should just sign Brady Tkachuk in FA I agree with letting the foundation be built // let some kids prove to be core pieces // don't intentionally tank anymore but keep stockpiling high draft picks while we slowly get better while losing a bunch of games.

There will always be a scoring winger to be had. We aren't competing for a cup in the near future and missing out on Brady doesn't prevent us from adding a Brady in the future.

 

[timorous me]

We aren't competing for a cup in the near future and missing out on Brady doesn't prevent us from adding a Brady in the future.

I can only imagine how many New England kids coming through over the next decade are going to be named Brady. Some might even go to BU...

 

[smitty10]

How has Liljegren been for you guys? Is he playing a top 4 role?

 

[Jargon]

How has Liljegren been for you guys? Is he playing a top 4 role?

He is and he’s doing great. Now, great is subjective because our defense is very very bad, so he looks very good in comparison, but he’s still been very mobile and increasingly more confident. I will say he’s been saddled with Mario Ferraro for most of the season and Ferraro has been… not great, so that certainly isn’t helping him.

For our team, though, he’s been very useful.