Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Hodge]

And yet you make fun of others that cite Natural Stat Trick when you're being disagreed with.

I disagree with anyone who uses any stat to make sweeping conclusions about a player.

 

[STL Shark]

Dellandrea, Sturm as well as Grundstrom were all consistently healthy scratched the last time they were in the playoffs. Guys like these are all spare parts.

Sturm was part of a loaded but weird Colorado team where only 12 skaters played all 20 playoff games. Bednar preferred Darren Helm over him when given a choice, but that's because Helm was a Cup Winner and playoff veteran that had played almost as many NHL Playoff games as Sturm had played NHL games. He still played 13/20 games that postseason though. Now that Sturm has established as a solid regular, he will garner interest. Teams love 6'3 centers that are faceoff studs for their bottom 6 in the playoffs.

Go ahead and pencil in a 3rd round pick for Sturm (same comp as COL gave up for Yakov Trenin last year).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I disagree with anyone who uses any stat to make sweeping conclusions about a player.

So you disagree with yourself using CF% to make the sweeping conclusion that Goodrow has been one of their best possession players, no?

 

[Hodge]

So you disagree with yourself using CF% to make the sweeping conclusion that Goodrow has been one of their best possession players, no?

When did I say that? I said he's 4th in 5v5 CF% and 3rd in 5v5 score-adjusted CF% among Sharks forwards which are factual statements.

A sweeping conclusion would be arguing he is a good or bad player based solely on those stats.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

When did I say that? I said he's 4th in 5v5 CF% and 3rd in 5v5 score-adjusted CF% among Sharks forwards which are factual statements.

A sweeping conclusion would be arguing he is a good or bad player based solely on those stats.

You said it when you said you disagree with anyone who uses any stat to make sweeping conclusions about a player. Using CF% and score-adjusted CF% is still pretty much the same thing when other CF% numbers that are likely providing a better picture of the CF% numbers show him in the 9th-12th range among the team. At worst, it cancels out your numbers. In reality, it's a better figure that more accurately reflects Goodrow's possession numbers. Either way, it's still a pretty sweeping conclusion for possession ability even if one were to agree it may be the best number to use. Just because it's the best doesn't mean it's accurate nor does it mean that makes the conclusions not sweeping.

 

[Hodge]

You said it when you said you disagree with anyone who uses any stat to make sweeping conclusions about a player. Using CF% and score-adjusted CF% is still pretty much the same thing when other CF% numbers that are likely providing a better picture of the CF% numbers show him in the 9th-12th range among the team. At worst, it cancels out your numbers. In reality, it's a better figure that more accurately reflects Goodrow's possession numbers. Either way, it's still a pretty sweeping conclusion for possession ability even if one were to agree it may be the best number to use. Just because it's the best doesn't mean it's accurate nor does it mean that makes the conclusions not sweeping.

No, I mean when did I say Goodrow has been one of our best possession players? I simply cited his CF% stats in response to a post claiming he's allergic to puck possession.

You're trying to skew the numbers by cutting an already small sample size in half and ignoring Goodrow's zone starts and linemates.

Fundamentally I just think it's dumb when people complain about line combos as if this isn't still a shallow and weak roster. It's perfectly reasonable to give Goodrow a shot on the top line. There aren't many better options.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

No, I mean when did I say Goodrow has been one of our best possession players? I simply cited his CF% stats in response to a post claiming he's allergic to puck possession.

You're trying to skew the numbers by cutting an already small sample size in half and ignoring Goodrow's zone starts and linemates.

Fundamentally I just think it's dumb when people complain about line combos as if this isn't still a shallow and weak roster. It's perfectly reasonable to give Goodrow a shot on the top line. There aren't many better options.

It's implied when you use it as a way to defend him on the top line because he's 4th in CF% and say there are hardly better options. If you want to argue against that, go for it. You can frame it as skewing the numbers but it's using the most relevant of those numbers when that's still about 70% of his five on five shifts. In other words, the most important situations within the most often played situation that impacts the game for the team. If you're going to cry small sample size then everyone, including yours about his effectiveness, is null. I don't think shutting down the conversation about how well Goodrow has played in 17 games like that is at all productive or honest.

While I can agree to an extent that it's reasonable to give Goodrow a shot on the top line, it's also perfectly reasonable to complain about that decision because even within this shallow and weak roster, there are definitively better options based on how they've played up to this point. You just want people to shut up and accept the decision.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

Sturm was part of a loaded but weird Colorado team where only 12 skaters played all 20 playoff games. Bednar preferred Darren Helm over him when given a choice, but that's because Helm was a Cup Winner and playoff veteran that had played almost as many NHL Playoff games as Sturm had played NHL games. He still played 13/20 games that postseason though. Now that Sturm has established as a solid regular, he will garner interest. Teams love 6'3 centers that are faceoff studs for their bottom 6 in the playoffs.

Go ahead and pencil in a 3rd round pick for Sturm (same comp as COL gave up for Yakov Trenin last year).

There is no chance Sturm gets a 3rd lol. Unless it's Griers call to sell early, his twin Bjugstad will go first and for more since he is a far better player/option for other teams. I think Sturm is the least likely to move out of all the UFAs simply because only Sharks fans even realize he's even in the NHL. Absolutely no more than a 5th rounder regardless.

Also just for funzies: He was scratched in favor of Cogliano, rightfully so, who only got the Sharks a 5th rounder

 

[Pinkfloyd]

There is no chance Sturm gets a 3rd lol. Unless it's Griers call to sell early, his twin Bjugstad will go first and for more since he is a far better player/option for other teams. I think Sturm is the least likely to move out of all the UFAs simply because only Sharks fans even realize he's even in the NHL. Absolutely no more than a 5th rounder regardless.

Also just for funzies: He was scratched in favor of Cogliano, rightfully so, who only got the Sharks a 5th rounder

A 5th would be still be a solid return and something the team should do but wait until the deadline to do that.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

No, I mean when did I say Goodrow has been one of our best possession players? I simply cited his CF% stats in response to a post claiming he's allergic to puck possession.

You're trying to skew the numbers by cutting an already small sample size in half and ignoring Goodrow's zone starts and linemates.

Fundamentally I just think it's dumb when people complain about line combos as if this isn't still a shallow and weak roster. It's perfectly reasonable to give Goodrow a shot on the top line. There aren't many better options.

this poster argues semantics, and then supports players because of their stats even though their play shows otherwise. this guy doens't know hockey let him go listen to Pink Floyd and get high

 

[DG93]

this poster argues semantics, and then supports players because of their stats even though their play shows otherwise. this guy doens't know hockey let him go listen to Pink Floyd and get high

Thank you for your invaluable input

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Oops. Anyway any chance Mack and Smitty can get a shot with one another

 

[Hodge]

this poster argues semantics, and then supports players because of their stats even though their play shows otherwise. this guy doens't know hockey let him go listen to Pink Floyd and get high

Make fun of me all you want but I draw the line at Pink Floyd slander.

 

[tiburon12]

With the pens against the wall, I wonder if there's a backwoods way the Sharks can get out of the EK65 retention while also dumping a contract in a 3-way deal. Like slip in and maybe pay a something expendable, but get that sweet retention spot back.

 

[timorous me]

Make fun of me all you want but I draw the line at Pink Floyd slander.

Speaking of which, I just heard David Gilmour's cover of "Between Two Points" from his new album (featuring his daughter Romany on vocals) and it's very good. The man has still got it even now at 78!

 

[Barrie22]

With the pens against the wall, I wonder if there's a backwoods way the Sharks can get out of the EK65 retention while also dumping a contract in a 3-way deal. Like slip in and maybe pay a something expendable, but get that sweet retention spot back.

Nope once you have retained it is with that team for the remainder of the contract.

 

[sampler]

Was just thinking based on early results, what return on assets could the sharks get for all their UFAs?

Here's my guess:
1. Granny: 1st rounder. He could put up 70-80+ pts this year.
2. Ceci: '25 3rd.
3. Blackwood: 2nd (I am hoping a '26 1st or a '25 2nd and 4th from COL shortly)
4. Vanecek: 2nd
5. Kunin: Bag o' pucks (6th rounder?)
6. Kostin: one custom Gatorade Squirt bottle.... maybe.
7. Sturm: 5th rounder
8. Ruuta: a copy of NHL '25 for XBOX.

All in all, if they dump everyone: It might be, a 1st, two 2nds, a 5th, and a 6th along with a gatorade bottle, a bag of pucks (slightly used, but like new condition) and a spankin' new Xbox game. Not a terrible haul...

ps: I would love them to bring back granny in the summer though if possible. His leadership has been really impressive to me.

 

[The Nemesis]

Was just thinking based on early results, what return on assets could the sharks get for all their UFAs?

Here's my guess:
1. Granny: 1st rounder. He could put up 70-80+ pts this year.
2. Ceci: '25 3rd.
3. Blackwood: 2nd (I am hoping a '26 1st or a '25 2nd and 4th from COL shortly)
4. Vanecek: 2nd
5. Kunin: Bag o' pucks (6th rounder?)
6. Kostin: one custom Gatorade Squirt bottle.... maybe.
7. Sturm: 5th rounder
8. Ruuta: a copy of NHL '25 for XBOX.

All in all, if they dump everyone: It might be, a 1st, two 2nds, a 5th, and a 6th along with a gatorade bottle, a bag of pucks (slightly used, but like new condition) and a spankin' new Xbox game. Not a terrible haul...

ps: I would love them to bring back granny in the summer though if possible. His leadership has been really impressive to me.

I don't think they move both goalies. If, for instance, Blackwood gets a solid package from Colorado I think there's worth in Vanacek being re-signed to be Askarov's mentor/safety net.

Yeah, I know that him moving out of Nashville was because he didn't want to be hamstrung by a team that would be more willing to ride a veteran than trust a rookie, but I also think that there's something to be said for the team having some level of continuity rather than going into next season with an entirely new tandem between the pipes. Sign Vanacek to a 1-year contract and if Askarov seizes the job next season then he becomes valuable trade bait at that deadline.

If nothing else I think they might consider riding out the rest of his contract at least to avoid changing both goaltenders mid-season.

This is also beneficial because it's not like there's always lots of teams looking for starting goaltending help every deadline. Most teams want backups because if they're competitive they'll have solved their starter issues already, which means a lower price than would probably be desirable for the Sharks.

 

[sampler]

I don't think they move both goalies. If, for instance, Blackwood gets a solid package from Colorado I think there's worth in Vanacek being re-signed to be Askarov's mentor/safety net.

Yeah, I know that him moving out of Nashville was because he didn't want to be hamstrung by a team that would be more willing to ride a veteran than trust a rookie, but I also think that there's something to be said for the team having some level of continuity rather than going into next season with an entirely new tandem between the pipes. Sign Vanacek to a 1-year contract and if Askarov seizes the job next season then he becomes valuable trade bait at that deadline.

If nothing else I think they might consider riding out the rest of his contract at least to avoid changing both goaltenders mid-season.

This is also beneficial because it's not like there's always lots of teams looking for starting goaltending help every deadline. Most teams want backups because if they're competitive they'll have solved their starter issues already, which means a lower price than would probably be desirable for the Sharks.

good points across the board. I would be fine keeping one... I hope grier can get a good haul for whichever he moves. The sharks are in a great spot there.

I especially agree with the Askarov piece, insofar as you never know how a young goalie will do in the big show. Great in the A and highly touted doesnt always mean NHL star. Good to have a quality vet backup just in case, but I am not sure either Vanecek or Blackwood would be OK with a backup role to Askarov....

 

[Gecklund]

Was just thinking based on early results, what return on assets could the sharks get for all their UFAs?

Here's my guess:
1. Granny: 1st rounder. He could put up 70-80+ pts this year.
2. Ceci: '25 3rd.
3. Blackwood: 2nd (I am hoping a '26 1st or a '25 2nd and 4th from COL shortly)
4. Vanecek: 2nd
5. Kunin: Bag o' pucks (6th rounder?)
6. Kostin: one custom Gatorade Squirt bottle.... maybe.
7. Sturm: 5th rounder
8. Ruuta: a copy of NHL '25 for XBOX.

All in all, if they dump everyone: It might be, a 1st, two 2nds, a 5th, and a 6th along with a gatorade bottle, a bag of pucks (slightly used, but like new condition) and a spankin' new Xbox game. Not a terrible haul...

ps: I would love them to bring back granny in the summer though if possible. His leadership has been really impressive to me.

Think you’re shooting real high here. I’d absolutely love it if we got that but I don’t know if we will. Think Ceci, Blackwood, Vanecek, and Kostin are a bit high.

 

[Hodge]

I would much rather extend Ceci than trade him for a 3rd round pick.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I would much rather extend Ceci than trade him for a 3rd round pick.

As annoyed as I am about it, I'm here too. If Ceci is willing to re-sign and nobody is offering a 2nd round pick, I'd keep him.

 

[Grinner]

Granlund to the Canes for Badinka and 2026 2nd

 

[mogambomoroo]

Interested what would Blackwood to Colorado package return. They are in a tough spot in a way that they really don't have a decent starter but are a playoff team. That means Sharks could command a hefty return, if Col gets desperate.

I have one trade in mind that would make sense on paper, but wouldn't make sense with what we are building probably.

Blackwood + Ferraro for Girard + 2nd round pick (or 1st round pick, you never know)

Blackwood 1A goalie, Ferraro takes Girard spot on 2LD. (They already have Makar and Toews taking care of the PP, Ferraro can be a penalty killer)

Girard, undersized defencemen similar to Cagnoni but would by far be out best PP defencemen. He has played his offside to my knowledge, but I could be wrong.
Late 2nd round pick.

 

[Star Platinum]

This is also beneficial because it's not like there's always lots of teams looking for starting goaltending help every deadline. Most teams want backups because if they're competitive they'll have solved their starter issues already, which means a lower price than would probably be desirable for the Sharks.

To that end, we should move Blackwood sooner rather than later while Colorado is feeling more desperate. Wait too long and somebody's goalie might straighten themselves out.