Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Gecklund]

Contrast Grier's sober assessment of our prospects with DWJr. talking up Nick Cicek and Gannon Laroque as the future of the Sharks defense.

I liked Laroque. Injuries ruined him.

 

[coooldude]

Atleast Haltunnen has proved his shot is great. If he can improve on one other aspect of the game like you say he could be a bottom-6 PP guy who you give one-timers to. Even if he's not scoring them atleast the other team needs to respect him as a legit option and gives more room for the other 4 guys on the PP

Hot take and perhaps too hot... Also perhaps for prospect thread, but I'm not sure I see Halttunen in the long term PP1 plans. Smith likely sits on that left spot top of circle, both for distribution and his right shot one timer. Celebrini on the opposite wing and someone at the QB (one of those two, floating up, or a D man with a shot, currently Walman, future Cagnoni or Dickinson or other). Only if he develops into a truly legit top 6 scorer are you designing your PP around him and moving Smith off that spot.

And if he's a PP2 specialist, he better bring something else to the squad, because as we've seen this year, PP2 is not all that valuable of a spot to be in.

I'm still hoping he keeps developing but I'm not sure he'll be a core part of the future, maybe a depth piece or a trade piece. Of course, everything can change, he's just a kid and we're still just past the nadir of the rebuild with years to go.

 

[OrrNumber4]

With Halttunen, I think he'd benefit from playing in the AHL. I think the message that he has to change his game and add details will do better in a league he isn't dominating.

 

[Shark in Hockeytown]

I watched Igor Larionov play, no intensity in him but simple brilliance.

While I agree with you that Larionov did not run around the ice at top speed, hammering everything he could reach, he was always five steps ahead of everyone else between the ears. It's a different kind of intensity, and why he is my favorite Shark of all time.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

I have never been one to praise Eklund but I absolutely love his play this year. Much better 5v5 game now and is not just a transition scorer, and he's so willing to hit this season (I think Zetterlund has rubbed off on him).

I have watched Clarke twice this year and he reminds me of a bigger Cagnoni. Everything he does is quick, shifty, lots of dangerous pucks to the net. I'm definitely intrigued by him. I haven't watched enough to make the judgment over Eklund.

Clarke looks good on a good team Eklund looks good on a terrible team I don’t think it’s an apples to apples comparison. Swap positions Clarke is back in the minors Eklund moves up to the upper tier of young forwards in the league.

That being said Grier will likely have to trade one of the forward prospects for a defenseman at some point maybe get Seider out of Detroit

 

[sampler]

Weird thought: Why arent there any PP specialists, specifically their shot? Hear me out:

Imagine a guy has subpar skill in everything but their shot, which they practice over and over 10,000 times a day to the point where they can hit a puck size hole virtually every time. Then, they play exclusively on the PP and exclusively for their shot. They can be decent enough to pass a little, but that's it. No EV or SH time. just PP.

Imagine such a player might improve a PP effectiveness by 5% just by virtue of the accuracy of their shot.

Say a team draws 4 PP per game. a 5% improvement is 1 more goal every 20 PPs, or roughly 1 more goal every 5 games, or .2 GPG or approx 16 goals per year. Seeing as how this player plays only PP, its almost like a free 16 goals a year, which is likely good for about 5 more wins, or 10 more points. Thats a massive difference from just one player.

Wonder why no one has figured out this strategy? Kinda like having an Ovie Shot, except better wince that would be literally the only purpose of this player.

Basically you dress 11 forwards (plus this PP shot specialist).

 

[sampler]

BTW, same can be said for every aspect of the game. You can have 5 on 5 specialists. pp specialists. PK specialists. Protect lead specialists. etc. I know teams have guys that do focus on each of those areas but they all tend to do multiple things.

Like goodrow may kill penalities, but he also plays 5 v 5. grandlund plays PP, but he also plays 5 v 5 and PK. This means that he is never going to be as good at all three situations based on how much he practices each.

Even if some of your roster does everything, having specialists seems like a genius way to maximize effectiveness.

 

[Herschel]

Weird thought: Why arent there any PP specialists, specifically their shot? Hear me out:

Imagine a guy has subpar skill in everything but their shot, which they practice over and over 10,000 times a day to the point where they can hit a puck size hole virtually every time. Then, they play exclusively on the PP and exclusively for their shot. They can be decent enough to pass a little, but that's it. No EV or SH time. just PP.

Imagine such a player might improve a PP effectiveness by 5% just by virtue of the accuracy of their shot.

Say a team draws 4 PP per game. a 5% improvement is 1 more goal every 20 PPs, or roughly 1 more goal every 5 games, or .2 GPG or approx 16 goals per year. Seeing as how this player plays only PP, its almost like a free 16 goals a year, which is likely good for about 5 more wins, or 10 more points. Thats a massive difference from just one player.

Wonder why no one has figured out this strategy? Kinda like having an Ovie Shot, except better wince that would be literally the only purpose of this player.

Basically you dress 11 forwards (plus this PP shot specialist).

A few quick thoughts.

1) This player would need to be at least close to if not a top AHL level skater in addition to the shot. If they were just some replacement level plug or worse it would effectively be a 4 on 4 until the PP team is fully setup.

Even one set up, this player would need to be able to effectively find space and open lanes to receive the pass. That is another skill set they would need to develop in addition to an elite shot.

2) Most NHL players work on their shot a ridiculous amount and most of them have developed no where near the accuracy and speed that Ovie does. It is hard to imagine developing an elite shooter out of what is already a small pool of players.

 

[TheBeard]

Weird thought: Why arent there any PP specialists, specifically their shot? Hear me out:

Imagine a guy has subpar skill in everything but their shot, which they practice over and over 10,000 times a day to the point where they can hit a puck size hole virtually every time. Then, they play exclusively on the PP and exclusively for their shot. They can be decent enough to pass a little, but that's it. No EV or SH time. just PP.

Imagine such a player might improve a PP effectiveness by 5% just by virtue of the accuracy of their shot.

Say a team draws 4 PP per game. a 5% improvement is 1 more goal every 20 PPs, or roughly 1 more goal every 5 games, or .2 GPG or approx 16 goals per year. Seeing as how this player plays only PP, its almost like a free 16 goals a year, which is likely good for about 5 more wins, or 10 more points. Thats a massive difference from just one player.

Wonder why no one has figured out this strategy? Kinda like having an Ovie Shot, except better wince that would be literally the only purpose of this player.

Basically you dress 11 forwards (plus this PP shot specialist).

Vegas kept Glass over Suzuki when the Max trade happened because Cody was supposed to be a PP specialist.

 

[ChompChomp]

There have been PP specialists in the past. One that notably comes to mind is Marc-André Bergeron. Over half of his career points and goals were on the PP.

 

[Juxtaposer]

It helps that Cagnoni can actually shoot, unlike Merkley. IMO Cagnoni also looks a bit better defensively than last year in Junior.

It also helps that everything Cagnoni does is quick. He thinks quick, he shoots quick, he handles the puck quick, he breaks out quick. Whether or not he successfully executes any given play is a fair criticism at this point, but in every single play you can see what he was thinking and he at least did something before a defender closed in on him, which was Merkley's problem.

I think Halttunen should stay in the AHL at this point. He almost certainly isn't a top-6 scoring guy at even strength, so building up his B game against pros is probably the most helpful developmental pathway for him. He's been forechecking and throwing the body well in his games so far, which is nice to see.

 

[Hobocop]

It also helps that everything Cagnoni does is quick. He thinks quick, he shoots quick, he handles the puck quick, he breaks out quick. Whether or not he successfully executes any given play is a fair criticism at this point, but in every single play you can see what he was thinking and he at least did something before a defender closed in on him, which was Merkley's problem.

I think Halttunen should stay in the AHL at this point. He almost certainly is a top-6 scoring guy at even strength, so building up his B game against pros is probably the most helpful developmental pathway for him. He's been forechecking and throwing the body well in his games so far, which is nice to see.

Yep, I have liked his physicality. I haven't felt like he's been that much of a scoring threat in 5 on 5 play, but I've got no reason to believe he wouldn't improve in that role as the season goes on.

From what Grier said in the interview though, it seems like they want to make decision in short order here. So if they're just going to judge him on this small sample size, yeah I'm not sure which way they go. I'd get it if they sent him back, but I think he's got more to learn with the Cuda.

I'd like to see him in the top 6 this week, actually, and then make your decision off that. Coe's been in one of those spots and I haven't felt like that's any better anyway. Put Halttunen next to Bystedt or Poturalski and see how that goes. Colin White's done well, but he's not exactly an amazing playmaker.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Yep, I have liked his physicality. I haven't felt like he's been that much of a scoring threat in 5 on 5 play, but I've got no reason to believe he wouldn't improve in that role as the season goes on.

From what Grier said in the interview though, it seems like they want to make decision in short order here. So if they're just going to judge him on this small sample size, yeah I'm not sure which way they go. I'd get it if they sent him back, but I think he's got more to learn with the Cuda.

I'd like to see him in the top 6 this week, actually, and then make your decision off that. Coe's been in one of those spots and I haven't felt like that's any better anyway. Put Halttunen next to Bystedt or Poturalski and see how that goes. Colin White's done well, but he's not exactly an amazing playmaker.

Agreed. Halttunen obviously isn't too good for juniors so it wouldn't be the worst thing for him to go back, but he can obviously hang in the AHL. I feel like White's line has been the least effective 5v5--how much of that can be attributed to Halttunen, I'm not sure. But I would like to see him with Bystedt, who has been the most effective 5v5 player outside of like, uh, Anthony Vincent.

 

[Saskatoon]

It also helps that everything Cagnoni does is quick. He thinks quick, he shoots quick, he handles the puck quick, he breaks out quick. Whether or not he successfully executes any given play is a fair criticism at this point, but in every single play you can see what he was thinking and he at least did something before a defender closed in on him, which was Merkley's problem.

I think Halttunen should stay in the AHL at this point. He almost certainly isn't a top-6 scoring guy at even strength, so building up his B game against pros is probably the most helpful developmental pathway for him. He's been forechecking and throwing the body well in his games so far, which is nice to see.

Totally - Merkley's problem was at the NHL level his decision making wasn't fast enough

 

[Juxtaposer]

Looks like Dante Fabbro is a healthy scratch over in Nashville. Don't know why Grier hasn't acquired him yet.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Agreed. Halttunen obviously isn't too good for juniors so it wouldn't be the worst thing for him to go back, but he can obviously hang in the AHL. I feel like White's line has been the least effective 5v5--how much of that can be attributed to Halttunen, I'm not sure. But I would like to see him with Bystedt, who has been the most effective 5v5 player outside of like, uh, Anthony Vincent.

If he can hang in the AHL, he should play and develop there. Bystedt and Halttunen is a potential NHL 3rd line if Bystedt can be a good 200 foot NHL’er and do a lot of the heavy lifting and make good passing plays to Halttunen. It could be what makes them a dangerous team in two or three years if they figure out the blue line by then.

 

[vortexy]

Looks like Dante Fabbro is a healthy scratch over in Nashville. Don't know why Grier hasn't acquired him yet.

Wasn't there a rumor or source that Grier had interest in acquiring Fabbro before? Really hope he is still interested, I would really like the Sharks to go after Fabbro or Liljegren, and I doubt either would cost much

 

[Juxtaposer]

Wasn't there a rumor or source that Grier had interest in acquiring Fabbro before? Really hope he is still interested, I would really like the Sharks to go after Fabbro or Liljegren, and I doubt either would cost much

I don't know if it was a legit rumor or not, but there's obviously the BU connection.

Those two guys are my two favorite low-key RHD trade targets. Fabbro is better but a UFA at the end of the year, whereas Liljegren is still under contract for a few years.

 

[ChompChomp]

I don't know if it was a legit rumor or not, but there's obviously the BU connection.

Those two guys are my two favorite low-key RHD trade targets. Fabbro is better but a UFA at the end of the year, whereas Liljegren is still under contract for a few years.

I'm just imagining these D pairings...

Walman-Fabbro
Ferraro-Liljegren
Thrun/Muk-Ceci

Would be very interesting to watch that group of 6 dmen.

 

[Hodge]

I'm just imagining these D pairings...

Walman-Fabbro
Ferraro-Liljegren
Thrun/Muk-Ceci

Would be very interesting to watch that group of 6 dmen.

Are we trying to assemble the softest defense corps of all time?

 

[Juxtaposer]

Are we trying to assemble the softest defense corps of all time?

No, just one that has six legitimate NHL defenseman on it. We can work on our d core being tough when we're actually trying to make the playoffs. Right now, we can afford to be picky and we desperately need literally anyone other than Walman who can make a half-way decent outlet pass and handle the puck. I'd rather the softest defense of all time than the slowest and worst.