Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[STL Shark]

Just use Grundstrom in that role.

So Grundstrom can mentor the kids with his vast postseason experience and 2 Stanley Cups that he was a key member of the team for, right?

It isn't just about the player on the ice. It's why sports aren't played on paper. There is more to it than that.

 

[STL Shark]

Sharks
Eklund - Granlund - Zetterlund
Kostin - Celebrini - Toffoli
Wennberg - W. Smith - Dellandrea
Goodrow - Sturm - Kunin
Grundstrom, G. Smith
(Couture)

It sucks that the Goodrow-Sturm-Kunin is probably the best 4th line that we've ever iced as an organization and would have probably won a Cup had we had that caliber 4th line during the Thornton/Marleau prime years.

Like compare that to running Zubrus-Spaling-Wingels in 2016 or Haley-Goodrow-Melker in 2019 against the rough and tumble Blues.

That said, I'd go slightly different on the lineup:
Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli
Granlund-Smith-Zetterlund
Kostin-Wennberg-Dellandrea
Goodrow-Sturm-Kunin

Could see Granlund float a bit as a spare center with Celebrini and Smith throughout the season (or until Couture is back). The comments on trying to have a couple of centers to take some burden off the young guys on some faceoffs and defensive assignments makes me think Granlund will almost exclusively be on the wing until Couture is back.

 

[spintops]

I know salary isn't everything (lol Goodrow) but the team paying Grundstrom more than Dellandrea - I think they have higher expectations for him then riding the press box.

 

[STL Shark]

I know salary isn't everything (lol Goodrow) but the team paying Grundstrom more than Dellandrea - I think they have higher expectations for him then riding the press box.

Difference of arb rights versus no arb rights. I agree that I foresee him playing, I just don't know who comes out of the lineup in order for him to play.

I still believe that there is a deal that is out there for Sturm to be traded once Grier gets a better idea as to Couture's condition as he skates this month. Not saying that it's the right decision to value Grundstrom over Sturm, but Sturm is an expiring UFA this year and doesn't fill a role that warrants extending him most likely with Goodrow here to anchor the 4th line moving forward until we find another veteran option for our real contention window (or Edstrom proves to be the guy).

 

[Cas]

So Grundstrom can mentor the kids with his vast postseason experience and 2 Stanley Cups that he was a key member of the team for, right?

It isn't just about the player on the ice. It's why sports aren't played on paper. There is more to it than that.

I frankly just don't think much of the "mentor" role. In my opinion, it's a myth used to justify employing bad players.

 

[spintops]

I frankly just don't think much of the "mentor" role. In my opinion, it's a myth used to justify employing bad players.

I agree with this. I don't think guys look up to bad players with past success. We got a bunch of bad depth players because they won cups during the DW era and they continued just being bad players that didn't bring any value.

 

[landshark]

I frankly just don't think much of the "mentor" role. In my opinion, it's a myth used to justify employing bad players.

I agree with this. I don't think guys look up to bad players with past success. We got a bunch of bad depth players because they won cups during the DW era and they continued just being bad players that didn't bring any value.

That's an interesting take. I like it, but I wonder about how an 18/19 year old, freshly drafted player would look at an undrafted two time Stanley cup winner... I'm not sure you get the awe of maybe meeting Jumbo... but then this non-Jumbo guy is still playing and making a living even tho he's past his prime and he wasn't gifted anything since he wasn't drafted there was no reason to invest in his development since no draft capital was used to acquire him from an organizational standpoint.

I feel like the mentor role is wishful thinking, if the mentee and the mentor don't click then it likely won't work. How can GMMG know if they'll click? Perhaps there's ways to coax some clicking. I'm not good enough at people-ing to know how they could do that, but there's folks that are good enough at it to help I'm sure.

It is a bit of a weird situation to bring in someone for a mentor spot and have to hope they click with the target.

 

[coooldude]

That's an interesting take. I like it, but I wonder about how an 18/19 year old, freshly drafted player would look at an undrafted two time Stanley cup winner... I'm not sure you get the awe of maybe meeting Jumbo... but then this non-Jumbo guy is still playing and making a living even tho he's past his prime and he wasn't gifted anything since he wasn't drafted there was no reason to invest in his development since no draft capital was used to acquire him from an organizational standpoint.

I feel like the mentor role is wishful thinking, if the mentee and the mentor don't click then it likely won't work. How can GMMG know if they'll click? Perhaps there's ways to coax some clicking. I'm not good enough at people-ing to know how they could do that, but there's folks that are good enough at it to help I'm sure.

It is a bit of a weird situation to bring in someone for a mentor spot and have to hope they click with the target.

It's not that deep (interpersonally) I don't think. Young players learn a lot of things from veterans. It's not a matchmaker situation.
- nutrition, generally and pre/post game in an 82 game schedule and with travel
- sleep, rest, recovery habits, details about weight training post game, etc (all kinds of details... All kinds of stories about these)
- practice habits - small things, when and when not to take extra ice, how to practice new skills, which ones to practice, etc (stories of players learning from Pavs and Burns on their tip drills)
- mental side of the game is huge - emotional management (Clowe just cited Grier as an early mentor for him), in game stress management, how to mentally let go of a loss or a bad play, how to make minor adjustments to your game as you go from better than everyone around you in lower leagues to playing the best
- all this applies also to success in the playoffs, if and when we get back there.

I don't think Goody is the best mentor in the world for our young players, but to say he's worthless is missing a lot of deep detail that young guys need to learn to be effective in the NHL.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

1. If Granlund or Smith are in the bottom 6 who is taking their spot in the top 6.
2. Even if Wennberg, Sturm, Kunin, Dellandrea, Grundstrom, and Kostin are the Bottom 6 have you ever heard of injuries. At one point last season Kunin was the 2C. I would rather have Goodrow in the press box to replace injuries than G Smith, Bailey, Bords, or Gushchin know oh whom can play center in the NHL.
3. By acquiring established NHL players like Goodrow the Cuda can have the players designed to play there. Last year Bailey and Carpenter were supposed to be impact players in the AHL and both spent the majority of time with the Sharks.

I get not thinking Goodrow is good but I just don’t understand why people are upset by the move. If he is unplayable the waive him. It’s not like it matters if his cap space is buried. He isn’t taking a spot from a prospect.

1. The other one. If Granlund is centering Eklund and Zetterlund, Smith is centering the 3rd line. I don't see a way for them to insulate Celebrini and Smith where Smith is in the top six but if Smith ends up in the top six, it's likely as a winger which would push down one of Granlund, Eklund, Zetterlund, Wennberg, or Kostin with Celebrini and Toffoli likely being paired together long term. That's seven guys looking at top six spots before considering the option of Smith in the top six in a season where we're supposedly trying to insulate the rookies.

2. Yeah, I've heard of injuries. In those cases, I'd like to provide an opportunity to someone else that we're developing since that's a huge point of a rebuild. We still have Thomas Bordeleau, Daniil Gushchin, Collin Graf, Filip Bystedt, and Ethan Cardwell that all could use the occasional cup of coffee during the course of a season to see where they're at. And in that group, Bordeleau and Bystedt can fill in and suck at center like Goodrow does. At least they have a chance to improve.

3. I don't care about the Barracuda beyond its design to be a developmental league. Trying to add talent there is a luxury because the actual point is to develop and compete at the NHL level. There are still more than enough established NHL players without Goodrow to allow the Barracuda to load up on good AHL players to play with the young talent that we're going to have there for next season.

Your last line in this is blatantly false. He absolutely is taking a spot from a prospect. There are finite spots on a roster and in a lineup that Goodrow is likely going to take up while not providing anything of worth.

 

[landshark]

It's not that deep (interpersonally) I don't think. Young players learn a lot of things from veterans. It's not a matchmaker situation.
- nutrition, generally and pre/post game in an 82 game schedule and with travel
- sleep, rest, recovery habits, details about weight training post game, etc (all kinds of details... All kinds of stories about these)
- practice habits - small things, when and when not to take extra ice, how to practice new skills, which ones to practice, etc (stories of players learning from Pavs and Burns on their tip drills)
- mental side of the game is huge - emotional management (Clowe just cited Grier as an early mentor for him), in game stress management, how to mentally let go of a loss or a bad play, how to make minor adjustments to your game as you go from better than everyone around you in lower leagues to playing the best
- all this applies also to success in the playoffs, if and when we get back there.

I don't think Goody is the best mentor in the world for our young players, but to say he's worthless is missing a lot of deep detail that young guys need to learn to be effective in the NHL.

But what if they really hit it off with Vlasic and decide to emulate him?

 

[mogambomoroo]

You gotta remember that being a mentor does not look at how talented you are as a player. There is a lot of NHL coaches or GM's that weren't the best players when they played. It's different type of skill, there is a lot of high level players that can't teach or show other players the way.
Depth player that's a mentor is like your first guitar teacher that shows you the simple things and how to grind through them to get to the next level. It's only first step towards NHL career, but for most of the prospects could be the most critical one.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It's not that deep (interpersonally) I don't think. Young players learn a lot of things from veterans. It's not a matchmaker situation.
- nutrition, generally and pre/post game in an 82 game schedule and with travel
- sleep, rest, recovery habits, details about weight training post game, etc (all kinds of details... All kinds of stories about these)
- practice habits - small things, when and when not to take extra ice, how to practice new skills, which ones to practice, etc (stories of players learning from Pavs and Burns on their tip drills)
- mental side of the game is huge - emotional management (Clowe just cited Grier as an early mentor for him), in game stress management, how to mentally let go of a loss or a bad play, how to make minor adjustments to your game as you go from better than everyone around you in lower leagues to playing the best
- all this applies also to success in the playoffs, if and when we get back there.

I don't think Goody is the best mentor in the world for our young players, but to say he's worthless is missing a lot of deep detail that young guys need to learn to be effective in the NHL.

And when you look at our rebuilding team, we have a surprisingly high amount of veterans with experience at various levels that would assist in covering the good habits mentoring that you're talking about. Toffoli, Sturm, and Rutta have championship experience. Guys like Grundstrom, Wennberg, Granlund, and Zetterlund are all forwards with plenty of NHL experience to contribute to good habits. Goodrow doesn't bring anything that we don't still have outside of him. I just think ignoring his poor on-ice play because of his previous experience (ignoring that he's not playing at that level anymore) is a bad move.

We should be looking to keep guys like Goodrow, Kunin, and Givani Smith off the ice because they're not effective hockey players. I still want our bottom six to be a competitive group which means winning their even strength shifts as their top priority. All those players have been showing that they aren't good at that. Goodrow especially has a long history of bad even strength play.

 

[coooldude]

And when you look at our rebuilding team, we have a surprisingly high amount of veterans with experience at various levels that would assist in covering the good habits mentoring that you're talking about. Toffoli, Sturm, and Rutta have championship experience. Guys like Grundstrom, Wennberg, Granlund, and Zetterlund are all forwards with plenty of NHL experience to contribute to good habits. Goodrow doesn't bring anything that we don't still have outside of him. I just think ignoring his poor on-ice play because of his previous experience (ignoring that he's not playing at that level anymore) is a bad move.

We should be looking to keep guys like Goodrow, Kunin, and Givani Smith off the ice because they're not effective hockey players. I still want our bottom six to be a competitive group which means winning their even strength shifts as their top priority. All those players have been showing that they aren't good at that. Goodrow especially has a long history of bad even strength play.

I think we all understand where you are with Goodrow. I'm not that interested in discussing it more, he's on the roster and the management seems to disagree with your point of view, no matter if you're right or not.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think we all understand where you are with Goodrow. I'm not that interested in discussing it more, he's on the roster and the management seems to disagree with your point of view, no matter if you're right or not.

That's fine but a lot of it is responding to points being made.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

It sucks that the Goodrow-Sturm-Kunin is probably the best 4th line that we've ever iced as an organization and would have probably won a Cup had we had that caliber 4th line during the Thornton/Marleau prime years.

Like compare that to running Zubrus-Spaling-Wingels in 2016 or Haley-Goodrow-Melker in 2019 against the rough and tumble Blues.

That said, I'd go slightly different on the lineup:
Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli
Granlund-Smith-Zetterlund
Kostin-Wennberg-Dellandrea
Goodrow-Sturm-Kunin

Could see Granlund float a bit as a spare center with Celebrini and Smith throughout the season (or until Couture is back). The comments on trying to have a couple of centers to take some burden off the young guys on some faceoffs and defensive assignments makes me think Granlund will almost exclusively be on the wing until Couture is back.

This should be stickied as the projected lineup on the first post here so we don't have to continue to melt away with laughter at the others. This is by far the best lineup you can put together with this current group of players, and look you can't even fit a fodder man like Grundstrom on it!

Goodrow is back and is here for 3 more years baby. I'm so f***ing excited. Again, complain about Goodrow all you want for making more that he probably should, but as a player, he is just so far better than guys like Grundstrom and Kunin (AND GIVANI SMITH WHO PEOPLE KEEP MENTIONING?? LOL) that mentioning otherwise is just like putting a bag over your head.

 

[landshark]

This should be stickied as the projected lineup on the first post here so we don't have to continue to melt away with laughter at the others. This is by far the best lineup you can put together with this current group of players, and look you can't even fit a fodder man like Grundstrom on it!

Goodrow is back and is here for 3 more years baby. I'm so f***ing excited. Again, complain about Goodrow all you want for making more that he probably should, but as a player, he is just so far better than guys like Grundstrom and Kunin (AND GIVANI SMITH WHO PEOPLE KEEP MENTIONING?? LOL) that mentioning otherwise is just like putting a bag over your head.

Then put a bag over my head and call me Shirley.

I actually think Kunin is more useful than Goody at this point and has more potential.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This should be stickied as the projected lineup on the first post here so we don't have to continue to melt away with laughter at the others. This is by far the best lineup you can put together with this current group of players, and look you can't even fit a fodder man like Grundstrom on it!

Goodrow is back and is here for 3 more years baby. I'm so f***ing excited. Again, complain about Goodrow all you want for making more that he probably should, but as a player, he is just so far better than guys like Grundstrom and Kunin (AND GIVANI SMITH WHO PEOPLE KEEP MENTIONING?? LOL) that mentioning otherwise is just like putting a bag over your head.

Except it's highly unlikely to be the actual lineup so why would you laugh off others. Why would we pay Grundstrom close to 2 mil to be an extra when he's been better than at least three, maybe four of the guys slotted in that lineup? I don't see how you insulate the rookies by putting them in as 1C and 2C. That's throwing them into the fire immediately.

 

[Hodge]

Whether Goodrow or Grundstrom or Kunin is in your ideal lineup or not, injuries happen and it's nice to have options beyond needing to immediately raid the Barracuda.

The last thing we need is Bordeleau or Gushchin asking Macklin when he gets back to the bench, "Why are you backchecking? Doug Wilson Jr. specifically told us not to do that!"

 

[mogambomoroo]

This user has a marvellous YouTube channel with a very good editing, storytelling and topics that are interesting involving NHL and hockey.
Here is his latest one, I would call it a masterpiece on an important topic.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Whether Goodrow or Grundstrom or Kunin is in your ideal lineup or not, injuries happen and it's nice to have options beyond needing to immediately raid the Barracuda.

The last thing we need is Bordeleau or Gushchin asking Macklin when he gets back to the bench, "Why are you backchecking? Doug Wilson Jr. specifically told us not to do that!"

I know you don't actually care about immediately raiding the Barracuda. I would like to have those options but I would just like them to be good options and not expensive ineffective options. Grundstrom is seemingly an effective option if he's not a regular in the lineup. Gushchin and Bordeleau aren't the only recall options our team has that make sense depending on the need.

 

[gaucholoco3]

1. The other one. If Granlund is centering Eklund and Zetterlund, Smith is centering the 3rd line. I don't see a way for them to insulate Celebrini and Smith where Smith is in the top six but if Smith ends up in the top six, it's likely as a winger which would push down one of Granlund, Eklund, Zetterlund, Wennberg, or Kostin with Celebrini and Toffoli likely being paired together long term. That's seven guys looking at top six spots before considering the option of Smith in the top six in a season where we're supposedly trying to insulate the rookies.

Who are these 6 top 6 players that don’t include one of Smith or Granlund? Celebrini, Zetterlund, Toffoli, Eklund, …….

Unless you are counting Couture I don’t see how anyone else is playing in the top 6. I’m sorry but Kostin should barely make the Roster and has no business near the top 6. Wennberg could be the 2C but that just makes no sense with Granlund and Celebrini above him. Maybe Wennberg could play top 6 wing but I doubt that’s what they brought him in for.

If Smith or Granlund are in the bottom 6 then I hate to break it to you but unless it’s Couture the most liked player to jump up into the top 6 is Kunin.

2. Yeah, I've heard of injuries. In those cases, I'd like to provide an opportunity to someone else that we're developing since that's a huge point of a rebuild. We still have Thomas Bordeleau, Daniil Gushchin, Collin Graf, Filip Bystedt, and Ethan Cardwell that all could use the occasional cup of coffee during the course of a season to see where they're at. And in that group, Bordeleau and Bystedt can fill in and suck at center like Goodrow does. At least they have a chance to improve.

So we call up a prospect who isn’t ready and gets outplayed to fill an injury. Sure if any of those players mentioned play their way onto the Sharks so be it but even pt/g AHL players don’t usually amount to much in the NHL.

3. I don't care about the Barracuda beyond its design to be a developmental league. Trying to add talent there is a luxury because the actual point is to develop and compete at the NHL level. There are still more than enough established NHL players without Goodrow to allow the Barracuda to load up on good AHL players to play with the young talent that we're going to have there for next season.

I do think it is a positive and important to build a competitive AHL team. They don’t need to win the Calder Cup but they were getting blown out as often as the Sharks were last year.

Also if it is a Developmental team then why pull up players who still need development. Let them stay and a player like Goodrow can be scratched and there is no concern about ruining his development.

Your last line in this is blatantly false. He absolutely is taking a spot from a prospect. There are finite spots on a roster and in a lineup that Goodrow is likely going to take up while not providing anything of worth.

If you can find a prospect clearly better than 11 players then you must be seeing something I’m not. Also at worst I would put Goodrow at 13 with G Smith behind him so it would have to be 2 prospects better than 10 forwards to cause Goodrow to be blocking a prospect. Also if that happens then just waive him and it’s not a big deal.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Just looking at the roster this team is way deeper then I thought(assuming couture is back)which is kind of mind blowing

Should make for a super competitive camp

 

[ChompChomp]

Just looking at the roster this team is way deeper then I thought(assuming couture is back)which is kind of mind blowing

Should make for a super competitive camp

Forwards, yes. Defense, not so much.

 

[Juxtaposer]

If Couture is healthy we have an actually solid top-6 with Couture, Eklund, Granlund, Celebrini, Toffoli, and Zetterlund. Then Smith, Wennberg, Dellandrea/Kostin on the third line would be solid too. And the fourth line is gonna be good either way.

I know we won’t get a legit update on Logan until camp, and I respect that he deserves privacy regarding his health and healing process, but I really wish I knew whether or not he’s gonna be able to play and at what level. Because if he can come back even at a second line level, that changes things a lot.

 

[Star Platinum]

Difference of arb rights versus no arb rights. I agree that I foresee him playing, I just don't know who comes out of the lineup in order for him to play.

I still believe that there is a deal that is out there for Sturm to be traded once Grier gets a better idea as to Couture's condition as he skates this month. Not saying that it's the right decision to value Grundstrom over Sturm, but Sturm is an expiring UFA this year and doesn't fill a role that warrants extending him most likely with Goodrow here to anchor the 4th line moving forward until we find another veteran option for our real contention window (or Edstrom proves to be the guy).

I just don't know how hungry teams will be for a decent 4th line center at the deadline