Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[weastern bias]

Wait, so was the "favor" of taking Goodrow off the Rangers' hands so that we could poach Clowe?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811492695963300283

Worth it, great trade, A+, no notes

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Wait, so was the "favor" of taking Goodrow off the Rangers' hands so that we could poach Clowe?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811492695963300283

I’m just going to tell myself that it was, because then I’ll feel better about the otherwise illogical Goodrow claim.

 

[jarr92]

Kostin is the least useful forward among our one-way contracts (Couture, Toffoli, Granlund, Wennberg, Goodrow, Kunin, Sturm, Grundstrom, Zetterlund, Dellandrea, G. Smith) because he doesn't have a track record of filling a defined role in the NHL. That said, this is a massive credit to Grier considering Kostin is still a huge upgrade over some of the garbage we were trotting out up front last season like Hoffman, Barabanov, Labanc and Zadina.

The real hot-take in this post is Givani Smith being more useful than Klim Kostin. I agree that Kunin is above Kostin in how the Sharks view their depth chart, definitely disagree regarding Smith. Kostin was in the lineup over Smith (different coach though) and was surprisingly effective in a middle 6 role. There's 0% chance G. Smith has that ability. Smith was also traded for now AHLer Michael Del Zotto after he was out of the league, so he obviously has no value around the league.

Also, Kostin seems like exactly the kind of player Grier is trying to acquire. Huge, fast, hits, scores a bit. His career shooting percentage over 155 games is 17.8%. IMO he wouldn't be the worst option next to either Granlund, Smith, or Celebrini as a 3rd wheel.

 

[Hodge]

The real hot-take in this post is Givani Smith being more useful than Klim Kostin. I agree that Kunin is above Kostin in how the Sharks view their depth chart, definitely disagree regarding Smith. Kostin was in the lineup over Smith (different coach though) and was surprisingly effective in a middle 6 role. There's 0% chance G. Smith has that ability. Smith was also traded for now AHLer Michael Del Zotto after he was out of the league, so he obviously has no value around the league.

Also, Kostin seems like exactly the kind of player Grier is trying to acquire. Huge, fast, hits, scores a bit. His career shooting percentage over 155 games is 17.8%. IMO he wouldn't be the worst option next to either Granlund, Smith, or Celebrini as a 3rd wheel.

Givani Smith's value is that he can end Leo Carlsson's career if Radko Gudas ever so much as makes eye contact with Mack.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Givani Smith's value is that he can end Leo Carlsson's career if Radko Gudas ever so much as makes eye contact with Mack.

No he cannot. Just stop.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Givani Smith's value is that he can end Leo Carlsson's career if Radko Gudas ever so much as makes eye contact with Mack.

There are only two ways to respond to this; 3 letters or 3 words:

LOL

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

I’m just going to tell myself that it was, because then I’ll feel better about the otherwise illogical Goodrow claim.

Claiming Goodrow back remains a fantastic move from a pure hockey standpoint. The more puzzling decision is not only qualifying one of Kunin/Grundstrom, but signing both of them. Goodrow is a better player than both and him + a league min'er would've provided better value and not clogged up 2 more spots on absolute completely useless fodder.

I actually agree it's good to keep someone like Smith in the wing incase someone gets Hertl'd, but ideally its someone like Michael Haley who, against mosts judgment, actually wasn't a bad hockey player and could easily handle business. Not someone like Smith who is literally just someone who happened to play hockey when he was younger.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Claiming Goodrow back remains a fantastic move from a pure hockey standpoint. The more puzzling decision is not only qualifying one of Kunin/Grundstrom, but signing both of them. Goodrow is a better player than both and him + a league min'er would've provided better value and not clogged up 2 more spots on absolute completely useless fodder.

I actually agree it's good to keep someone like Smith in the wing incase someone gets Hertl'd, but ideally its someone like Michael Haley who, against mosts judgment, actually wasn't a bad hockey player and could easily handle business. Not someone like Smith who is literally just someone who happened to play hockey when he was younger.

Goodrow is not any better than Kunin or Grundstrom and he is paid a lot more, for a lot longer. It was a terrible claim.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

Goodrow is not any better than Kunin or Grundstrom and he is paid a lot more, for a lot longer. It was a terrible claim.

He is so far better than both players it's not possible to put into words.

 

[Crankshaft Mechanic]

He is so far better than both players it's not possible to put into words.

I'll try some words: Barclay Goodrow literally scored 4 goals in 80 regular season games last season.

 

[Hodge]

I'll try some words: Barclay Goodrow literally scored 4 goals in 80 regular season games last season.

He also averaged 32 points per 82 games over the 3 seasons prior to that.

Hot take but it's beneficial to have more than one good bottom six forward. Up to six of them, in fact.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Didn't Goodrow have ridiculously hard minutes as well?

 

[gaucholoco3]

Didn't Goodrow have ridiculously hard minutes as well?

Yes and exactly why he is perfect for this team to shelter the kids.

If Goodrow was making $1.5 million people wouldn’t be complaining. And for a team likely to be over $10 million under the cap for the length of his deal people are just complaining about Hasso’s money.

 

[Star Platinum]

I'll try some words: Barclay Goodrow literally scored 4 goals in 80 regular season games last season.

Hey at least it was two more than he scored as a "legit second line winger" for Tampa over two seasons.

That still may be the funniest thing I've read since joining this board other than "you come for the King, you best not miss."

 

[gaucholoco3]

Hey at least it was two more than he scored as a "legit second line winger" for Tampa over two seasons.

That still may be the funniest thing I've read since joining this board other than "you come for the King, you best not miss."

Goodrow is not on the team to score goals. He is on the team so that Celebrini and Smith don’t need to take D zone draws against McDavid and other top lines. How Goodrow plays is irrelevant. The only thing that matters about this season is the development of the young guys.

The Sharks could have the same record as last season. But if Celebrini, Smith, and Ekljnd each put up 60 points then it is a great season. I would even say the perfect outcome.

 

[Star Platinum]

Goodrow is not on the team to score goals. He is on the team so that Celebrini and Smith don’t need to take D zone draws against McDavid and other top lines. How Goodrow plays is irrelevant. The only thing that matters about this season is the development of the young guys.

The Sharks could have the same record as last season. But if Celebrini, Smith, and Ekljnd each put up 60 points then it is a great season. I would even say the perfect outcome.

I thoroughly agree with your last paragraph. In fact, if those three did that, but our own pick is around 6-7, I would say that's a worse outcome. Sharks still need to add more top shelf talent.

The only measure I'm looking at for this year is how the young guys perform. Everything else is noise cause most of those guys won't be on the next Sharks playoff team.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I thoroughly agree with your last paragraph. In fact, if those three did that, but our own pick is around 6-7, I would say that's a worse outcome. Sharks still need to add more top shelf talent.

The only measure I'm looking at for this year is how the young guys perform. Everything else is noise cause most of those guys won't be on the next Sharks playoff team.

The great thing that is far more likely (not probable, but possible) with young teams is all the prospects taking massive steps in their game and the team outperforms See what happened to the 2004 Sharks (and they weren't even that young). So it isn't inconceivable that Celebrini, Zetterlund, Eklund, and Smith go on a 70+ point run, the team stays healthy, new additions like Goodrow and Kostin bounce back, and maybe a defenseman like Emberson proves he is a diamond in the rough, and so the Sharks finish around 18-22. Sure, it "steals" a high draft pick from the Sharks, but tjhey have to take the several birds in hand!

 

[gaucholoco3]

The great thing that is far more likely (not probable, but possible) with young teams is all the prospects taking massive steps in their game and the team outperforms See what happened to the 2004 Sharks (and they weren't even that young). So it isn't inconceivable that Celebrini, Zetterlund, Eklund, and Smith go on a 70+ point run, the team stays healthy, new additions like Goodrow and Kostin bounce back, and maybe a defenseman like Emberson proves he is a diamond in the rough, and so the Sharks finish around 18-22. Sure, it "steals" a high draft pick from the Sharks, but tjhey have to take the several birds in hand!

Yeah as long as Sharks get a worse draft pick is a result of massive gains made by the kids then I’m all for that.

Also Vegas will trade futures for Marner only to sign him to a 8x$14 million extension and then bottom out and win the lottery for the Sharks.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yes and exactly why he is perfect for this team to shelter the kids.

If Goodrow was making $1.5 million people wouldn’t be complaining. And for a team likely to be over $10 million under the cap for the length of his deal people are just complaining about Hasso’s money.

One, we don't really know if it's true that he'll take the bulk of the defensive zone draws against top lines. He probably won't because the kids can use those draws to learn as well and we already have a center who will probably do that in Granlund while keeping the team legitimately competitive.

Two, he's not making 1.5 mil so that's not a real point to make. We wouldn't complain if he were a 100 point player either but he's not so it's probably just best to stick to what the actual situation is and not some made up version.

Three, all Grier has or had to do is get something for doing this. Otherwise, he's doing an old buddy a favor and wasting a resource. Those things are not good manager qualities to have in excess. I don't think it's wise to dismiss those out of hand.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

One, we don't really know if it's true that he'll take the bulk of the defensive zone draws against top lines. He probably won't because the kids can use those draws to learn as well and we already have a center who will probably do that in Granlund while keeping the team legitimately competitive.

Two, he's not making 1.5 mil so that's not a real point to make. We wouldn't complain if he were a 100 point player either but he's not so it's probably just best to stick to what the actual situation is and not some made up version.

Three, all Grier has or had to do is get something for doing this. Otherwise, he's doing an old buddy a favor and wasting a resource. Those things are not good manager qualities to have in excess. I don't think it's wise to dismiss those out of hand.

Goodrow is an extremely useful player that many other teams want unlike someone like Lindblom when comparing buyoutish scenarios, so it's not like they took on garbage. Again, we aren't paying the players ourselves technically, so 1. cap not only doesn't really matter but 2. for the current Sharks the cap REALLY does not matter. In this scenario, you are complaining about something actually good free vs. something free and then wanting more.

Complaining about a floor team re-claiming one of the most significant players in history is just f***ing mind BOGGLING anyways. Might be time to hibernate from here again till Camp

 

[gaucholoco3]

One, we don't really know if it's true that he'll take the bulk of the defensive zone draws against top lines. He probably won't because the kids can use those draws to learn as well and we already have a center who will probably do that in Granlund while keeping the team legitimately competitive.

Two, he's not making 1.5 mil so that's not a real point to make. We wouldn't complain if he were a 100 point player either but he's not so it's probably just best to stick to what the actual situation is and not some made up version.

Three, all Grier has or had to do is get something for doing this. Otherwise, he's doing an old buddy a favor and wasting a resource. Those things are not good manager qualities to have in excess. I don't think it's wise to dismiss those out of hand.

I mention how much he makes because how much every Shark makes is irrelevant to the cap. The Sharks could pay him $10 million a year and be in the same position cap wise.

I also don’t care if it helps the Rangers. If this move is a positive for the Sharks it doesn’t matter that it also helps the Rangers.

As a player Goodrow helps the team insulate the kids which is a net positive. So his cap hit and helping the Rangers doesn’t matter. This was a move that improves the Sharks.

 

[Hodge]

We know for a fact that the Sharks were on Goodrow's no trade list.

How was Grier supposed to "get something" for acquiring him without being able to trade for him?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Goodrow is an extremely useful player that many other teams want unlike someone like Lindblom when comparing buyoutish scenarios, so it's not like they took on garbage. Again, we aren't paying the players ourselves technically, so 1. cap not only doesn't really matter but 2. for the current Sharks the cap REALLY does not matter. In this scenario, you are complaining about something actually good free vs. something free and then wanting more.

Complaining about a floor team re-claiming one of the most significant players in history is just f***ing mind BOGGLING anyways. Might be time to hibernate from here again till Camp

If he was that useful, the Rangers would've traded him to anyone on his list for something useful. Comparing him to Lindblom is pointless. I disagree that Goodrow is something good because he's not. Why are you trying to claim that something that happened five years ago is relevant to whether the move is good or not. Goodrow isn't a good hockey player and thus claiming him on its own is not a good move.

I mention how much he makes because how much every Shark makes is irrelevant to the cap. The Sharks could pay him $10 million a year and be in the same position cap wise.

I also don’t care if it helps the Rangers. If this move is a positive for the Sharks it doesn’t matter that it also helps the Rangers.

As a player Goodrow helps the team insulate the kids which is a net positive. So his cap hit and helping the Rangers doesn’t matter. This was a move that improves the Sharks.

It is irrelevant to the cap. It's just bad because Goodrow isn't a good player. It's not going to be a move that is a positive for the Sharks on its own. Goodrow may not even be tasked with insulating the kids much less assume that it's a net positive. These are all unwarranted assumptions to make.

We know for a fact that the Sharks were on Goodrow's no trade list.

How was Grier supposed to "get something" for acquiring him without being able to trade for him?

You're smart enough to know the answer to that silly question. Stop playing dumb.

 

[gaucholoco3]

It is irrelevant to the cap. It's just bad because Goodrow isn't a good player. It's not going to be a move that is a positive for the Sharks on its own. Goodrow may not even be tasked with insulating the kids much less assume that it's a net positive. These are all unwarranted assumptions to make.

Is Goodrow that bad? He is better than the majority of the Sharks bottom 6 last year. Who was actually available to the Sharks that is better than him? I don’t see any Cuda that are better than him.

Nobody wants to play for the Sharks after last season.

 

[Cas]

Is Goodrow that bad? He is better than the majority of the Sharks bottom 6 last year. Who was actually available to the Sharks that is better than him? I don’t see any Cuda that are better than him.

Nobody wants to play for the Sharks after last season.

Goodrow was really, really awful this season, is on the wrong side of 30, and doesn't have a ton of skill to lose and still be a viable NHL player.

He's probably better than Givani Smith though, who is a poor man's Ryan Reaves.