Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[gaucholoco3]

Goodrow was really, really awful this season, is on the wrong side of 30, and doesn't have a ton of skill to lose and still be a viable NHL player.

He's probably better than Givani Smith though, who is a poor man's Ryan Reaves.

I have yet to hear an available option that is better than Goodrow.

 

[Cas]

I have yet to hear an available option that is better than Goodrow.

Just use Grundstrom in that role.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Just use Grundstrom in that role.

I think Grundstrom and Goodrow will both be in the bottom 6 and push Kostin to the press box or Cuda

 

[Crankshaft Mechanic]

Complaining about a floor team re-claiming one of the most significant players in history is just f***ing mind BOGGLING anyways. Might be time to hibernate from here again till Camp

You seem to be the one complaining when people don't agree with this...take. Barclay Goodrow, a respectable bottom 6 forward for the Sharks over ~5 seasons, is "one of the most significant players" in Sharks history?

That said, I like Goodrow. Unfortunately, his previous season indicates he is not the same player he was a few years ago. Will he be better than some of the flotsam from last year's roster? I hope so, but that's a low bar to clear anyway.

 

[aircobra]

Complaining about a floor team re-claiming one of the most significant players in history is just f***ing mind BOGGLING anyways. Might be time to hibernate from here again till Camp

I want whatever you're on.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Is Goodrow that bad? He is better than the majority of the Sharks bottom 6 last year. Who was actually available to the Sharks that is better than him? I don’t see any Cuda that are better than him.

Nobody wants to play for the Sharks after last season.

I think Goodrow is that bad. If it were up to me, I would completely remake the bottom six last year and Grier is largely making it over where he's only keeping Sturm and Kunin as part of it and Kunin spent most of last year in our top six as pathetic as that is and was. We have Dellandrea, Grundstrom, and probably one of Smith or Granlund in the bottom six next year. Kostin may be in that bottom six. He may or may not be better but he's worthy of an opportunity there. That's already four guys replacing the bottom six of last season and a full six if you're including the two we did keep with Sturm and Kunin. We didn't need him to ice a freaking roster next year and there's lots of available free agents that would probably fill a similar role or another role you'd expect out of a bottom six forward or whatever you'd expect out of 3.6 mil or even a minimum salary like with Bailey.

Why are we continuing to pretend like Goodrow's some sort of requirement? He wasn't. He was a choice the GM made and it's a value judgment of the player and what he brings relative to his role and expectations. Goodrow's play has been bad for a while. He was able to mask it with productivity for a while but Goodrow plays losing hockey and this team needs to add players that fill roles AND bring positive play when they're on the ice.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Is Goodrow that bad? He is better than the majority of the Sharks bottom 6 last year. Who was actually available to the Sharks that is better than him? I don’t see any Cuda that are better than him.

Nobody wants to play for the Sharks after last season.

We currently have at least 12 forwards in the organization that are better hockey players than Goodrow. 2 of whom we just signed on the open market, for deals that overpay them by a lesser margin than the margin by which Goodrow is overpaid.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I think Goodrow is that bad. If it were up to me, I would completely remake the bottom six last year and Grier is largely making it over where he's only keeping Sturm and Kunin as part of it and Kunin spent most of last year in our top six as pathetic as that is and was. We have Dellandrea, Grundstrom, and probably one of Smith or Granlund in the bottom six next year. Kostin may be in that bottom six. He may or may not be better but he's worthy of an opportunity there. That's already four guys replacing the bottom six of last season and a full six if you're including the two we did keep with Sturm and Kunin. We didn't need him to ice a freaking roster next year and there's lots of available free agents that would probably fill a similar role or another role you'd expect out of a bottom six forward or whatever you'd expect out of 3.6 mil or even a minimum salary like with Bailey.

Why are we continuing to pretend like Goodrow's some sort of requirement? He wasn't. He was a choice the GM made and it's a value judgment of the player and what he brings relative to his role and expectations. Goodrow's play has been bad for a while. He was able to mask it with productivity for a while but Goodrow plays losing hockey and this team needs to add players that fill roles AND bring positive play when they're on the ice.

1. If Granlund or Smith are in the bottom 6 who is taking their spot in the top 6.
2. Even if Wennberg, Sturm, Kunin, Dellandrea, Grundstrom, and Kostin are the Bottom 6 have you ever heard of injuries. At one point last season Kunin was the 2C. I would rather have Goodrow in the press box to replace injuries than G Smith, Bailey, Bords, or Gushchin know oh whom can play center in the NHL.
3. By acquiring established NHL players like Goodrow the Cuda can have the players designed to play there. Last year Bailey and Carpenter were supposed to be impact players in the AHL and both spent the majority of time with the Sharks.

I get not thinking Goodrow is good but I just don’t understand why people are upset by the move. If he is unplayable the waive him. It’s not like it matters if his cap space is buried. He isn’t taking a spot from a prospect.

We currently have at least 12 forwards in the organization that are better hockey players than Goodrow. 2 of whom we just signed on the open market, for deals that overpay them by a lesser margin than the margin by which Goodrow is overpaid.

So we don’t have 14. Plus how much he makes is irrelevant to everyone in the world other than Goodrow and Plattner.

 

[Cas]

1. If Granlund or Smith are in the bottom 6 who is taking their spot in the top 6.
2. Even if Wennberg, Sturm, Kunin, Dellandrea, Grundstrom, and Kostin are the Bottom 6 have you ever heard of injuries. At one point last season Kunin was the 2C. I would rather have Goodrow in the press box to replace injuries than G Smith, Bailey, Bords, or Gushchin know oh whom can play center in the NHL.
3. By acquiring established NHL players like Goodrow the Cuda can have the players designed to play there. Last year Bailey and Carpenter were supposed to be impact players in the AHL and both spent the majority of time with the Sharks.

I get not thinking Goodrow is good but I just don’t understand why people are upset by the move. If he is unplayable the waive him. It’s not like it matters if his cap space is buried. He isn’t taking a spot from a prospect.

Sharks
Eklund - Granlund - Zetterlund
Kostin - Celebrini - Toffoli
Wennberg - W. Smith - Dellandrea
Goodrow - Sturm - Kunin
Grundstrom, G. Smith
(Couture)
Barracuda
*Bordeleau* - Bystedt - Graf
Gushchin - Potularski - Cardwell
Sabourin - Robins - Bailey
Carroll - Cassels - *Coe*
Grainger - Houle - Vincent
Wichita
Russell
Vanroboys
Juniors/Europe
Musty, Halttunen, Edstrom, *Chernyshov*

This is basically how I expect the forward group to shake out to start the season. No Goodrow, we slide Grundstrom into his slot and move Bordeleau or Bailey up, and then we just have to find someone to take his slot for the Barracuda (which could include trading from our surplus of defensemen, or a reverse Wiesblatt-Afanasyev trade to pick up the last year of someone's out-of-favor forward prospect, or just signing a free agent).

I'm hoping one or two of the Barracuda force their way up, too.

We'd have been just fine without an expensive and awful player like Goodrow. We have plenty as it is, still.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Sharks
Eklund - Granlund - Zetterlund
Kostin - Celebrini - Toffoli
Wennberg - W. Smith - Dellandrea
Goodrow - Sturm - Kunin
Grundstrom, G. Smith
(Couture)
Barracuda
*Bordeleau* - Bystedt - Graf
Gushchin - Potularski - Cardwell
Sabourin - Robins - Bailey
Carroll - Cassels - *Coe*
Grainger - Houle - Vincent
Wichita
Russell
Vanroboys
Juniors/Europe
Musty, Halttunen, Edstrom, *Chernyshov*

This is basically how I expect the forward group to shake out to start the season. No Goodrow, we slide Grundstrom into his slot and move Bordeleau or Bailey up, and then we just have to find someone to take his slot for the Barracuda (which could include trading from our surplus of defensemen, or a reverse Wiesblatt-Afanasyev trade to pick up the last year of someone's out-of-favor forward prospect, or just signing a free agent).

I'm hoping one or two of the Barracuda force their way up, too.

We'd have been just fine without an expensive and awful player like Goodrow. We have plenty as it is, still.

I agree that Goodrow doesn’t move the needle but you mentioned that without him Bailey or Bords would have to be brought up weakening the Cuda. So even you are admitting that the organization is better off with Goodrow.

 

[one2gamble]

Goodrow is washed until proven otherwise

 

[tiburon12]

We currently have at least 12 forwards in the organization that are better hockey players than Goodrow. 2 of whom we just signed on the open market, for deals that overpay them by a lesser margin than the margin by which Goodrow is overpaid.

Why do you keep bringing up money as if it matters this season or any of the seasons before Celebrini and Smith's ELCs are up (same year as Goodrow FYI)? Why are you pretending that wins matter this season? Why are you ignoring the other value Goodrow brings in terms of leadership and professionalism (perhaps you forget his road to the NHL)? Why are you ignoring the value of internal competition among the bottom 6, especially with so many prospects in the system?

Do people really not understand what this seasons is about? The Goodrow claim is so f***ing inconsequential to the big picture.

 

[rideaucrusher21]

Goodrow is washed until proven otherwise

The last thing the dude did on the ice was score 6 goals in a playoff run. Doesn’t seem like a washed player to me. I get the contract isn’t the best, but I don’t understand the Goodrow hate.

 

[OrrNumber4]

We currently have at least 12 forwards in the organization that are better hockey players than Goodrow. 2 of whom we just signed on the open market, for deals that overpay them by a lesser margin than the margin by which Goodrow is overpaid.

Let me buttress his concerns about Goodrow: currently, his contract is quite manageable. With the salary cap rising and with Celebrini and Smith on ELCs, there shouldn't be any immediate concerns.

But 3 years is a lot of time! Many things could happen. Maybe the timeline gets accelerated due to overperformance by the youth. Maybe there is another stoppage. Maybe another superstar falls into Grier's lap. History has shown that stranger things have happened, so it's not inconceivable that Goodrow's contract could become problematic.

Put another way, if Goodrow had just a year left, I'd be 98% sure it wouldn't be a problem. But on a 3-year deal, I'm only...85% sure it won't be an issue.

 

[Cas]

I agree that Goodrow doesn’t move the needle but you mentioned that without him Bailey or Bords would have to be brought up weakening the Cuda. So even you are admitting that the organization is better off with Goodrow.

No, I think we'd be better off with some Bailey-esque nobody making $800,000 for two years, or some Wiesblatt-esque prospect with one year left on his ELC.

Instead we have a really bad hockey player making real money for term, who is going to get a lot of playing time he doesn't actually deserve because he's a "Proven Winner" and "Veteran" who scored a very unexpected goal five years ago, and we didn't get bribed for the privilege.

I think we're worse off than the real opportunity cost.

 

[tiburon12]

Let me buttress his concerns about Goodrow: currently, his contract is quite manageable. With the salary cap rising and with Celebrini and Smith on ELCs, there shouldn't be any immediate concerns.

But 3 years is a lot of time! Many things could happen. Maybe the timeline gets accelerated due to overperformance by the youth. Maybe there is another stoppage. Maybe another superstar falls into Grier's lap. History has shown that stranger things have happened, so it's not inconceivable that Goodrow's contract could become problematic.

Put another way, if Goodrow had just a year left, I'd be 98% sure it wouldn't be a problem. But on a 3-year deal, I'm only...85% sure it won't be an issue.

and that 13% confidence dip REALLY justifies all the hate here (not from you, from others).....

I get it's the offseason but the boards have been brutal the past few weeks.

 

[tiburon12]

No, I think we'd be better off with some Bailey-esque nobody making $800,000 for two years, or some Wiesblatt-esque prospect with one year left on his ELC.

Instead we have a really bad hockey player making real money for term, who is going to get a lot of playing time he doesn't actually deserve because he's a "Proven Winner" and "Veteran" who scored a very unexpected goal five years ago, and we didn't get bribed for the privilege.

I think we're worse off than the real opportunity cost.

These are all legit concerns for teams trying to compete, not for teams in our position. Again, term and money Do. Not. Matter. for this club right now. we have $14M in cap space....and even more next year.

Goodrow is going to get ice time he earns, just like everyone else. And until someone proves they are better than him, he will continue to get ice time. Once that happens, Grier will move him down the chart. That's the entire point of internal competition. Hey Ty Dellandrea, you wanna be a pro that sticks in the league? go be better than Barclay Goodrow. If you can't do that then hit the bricks.

And again that's entirely the on-ice stuff. Goodrow is a player who had 0 handed to him and had to prove himself every step of the way. He's the antithesis of topic-of-the-week Rutger McGroaty who seems to want ice time just because. We've agreed that's a negative trait, so why is the guy who has already demonstrated the opposite not viewed as having positive traits?

Every "Goodrow was a bad idea" take suffers the same lack of perspective on where the team is and what their goals are. I'm yet to hear a real argument why it was a bad idea that isn't grounded in said lack of perspective or isn't entirely speculative.

 

[OrrNumber4]

and that 13% confidence dip REALLY justifies all the hate here (not from you, from others).....

I get it's the offseason but the boards have been brutal the past few weeks.

Sometimes the Internet reflects real life. People don't care what you say, they care how you make them feel.

 

[tiburon12]

Sometimes the Internet reflects real life. People don't care what you say, they care how you make them feel.

I feel sad that you never like my posts

No words needed for those feelings lol

 

[OrrNumber4]

I feel sad that you never like my posts

No words needed for those feelings lol

I very rarely leave impressions on any posts, as a matter of principal. Suffice to say that you are one of the better posters on here.

 

[tiburon12]

I very rarely leave impressions on any posts, as a matter of principal. Suffice to say that you are one of the better posters on here.

I'll get that elusive OrrNumber4 like one day....one day! Sandisfan makes up for it

 

[OrrNumber4]

I'll get that elusive OrrNumber4 like one day....one day! Sandisfan makes up for it

Aren't you Thai? So that thumbs up would have a different meaning...

 

[tiburon12]

Aren't you Thai? So that thumbs up would have a different meaning...

haha no i just have lived here for over a decade. Thumbs up is universal now. Pointing your foot at someone, however.....

 

[Bizz]

Sharks
Eklund - Granlund - Zetterlund
Kostin - Celebrini - Toffoli
Wennberg - W. Smith - Dellandrea
Goodrow - Sturm - Kunin
Grundstrom, G. Smith
(Couture)
Barracuda
*Bordeleau* - Bystedt - Graf
Gushchin - Potularski - Cardwell
Sabourin - Robins - Bailey
Carroll - Cassels - *Coe*
Grainger - Houle - Vincent
Wichita
Russell
Vanroboys
Juniors/Europe
Musty, Halttunen, Edstrom, *Chernyshov*

This is basically how I expect the forward group to shake out to start the season. No Goodrow, we slide Grundstrom into his slot and move Bordeleau or Bailey up, and then we just have to find someone to take his slot for the Barracuda (which could include trading from our surplus of defensemen, or a reverse Wiesblatt-Afanasyev trade to pick up the last year of someone's out-of-favor forward prospect, or just signing a free agent).

I'm hoping one or two of the Barracuda force their way up, too.

We'd have been just fine without an expensive and awful player like Goodrow. We have plenty as it is, still.

as decent as he looked after joining us last season, I just don't see Kostin replicating his ~40 point pace again. He'll probably end up being the odd man out, and I don't see him filling a role on the bottom 6, especially when Couture returns (my guess is early December).

Couture-Celebrini-Toffoli is gonna be a fun line.

 

[weastern bias]

f*** it, top line Goodrow:

Goodrow-Granlund-Zetterlund
Kostin-Celebrini-Toffoli
Eklund-Wennberg/Smith
Kunin-Sturm-Dellandrea

It's what we deserve, and you KNOW you wanna see it