Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[TealManV]

I think there’s a clever workaround for a potential Nashville trade: Rutger McGroarty.

On the TSN broadcast, they talked about how difficult it is for WPG to attract and retain quality FA. They suggested that WPG tries to follow the PLD trade blueprint by bringing in multiple quality NHL players that are controlled for a while.

WPG also doesn’t have a 2025 2nd.

So what about:
-Ferraro
-SJ 2025 2nd
-Robins (Who is from Brandon, very close to Winnipeg)

For

-McGroarty

Then, turn around and trade:

-McGroarty
-Bordeleau
-The Ghost of Ozzy Wiseblatt’s trade
-One of the nine LD on the Cuda

For

-Askarov
-Fabbro

Not sure that’s enough but doesn’t feel too far off for me. A clever way to address some major, major needs for the Sharks.

*For any current Jets rumblings, Murat Ates on the Athletic just posted a good breakdown after today’s activity. Once again confirming WPG’s needs for a Dillon replacement and SJ’s interest in McG. (Paywall)

 

[SJFanQC]

With Afanasyev gone, there's a couple ways this could go and obviously lines will change a few games in anyway, but the main lineups I see are

If Celebrini signs:

Eklund - Celebrini - Toffoli
Granlund - Smith - Zetterlund
Kostin - Wennberg - Dellandrea
Goodrow - Sturm - Kunin/Graf
Grundstrom

If Celebrini doesn't sign:

Eklund - Granlund - Zetterlund
Kostin - Smith - Toffoli
Goodrow - Wennberg - Graf
Kunin - Sturm - Dellandrea
Grundstrom

Now, if Couture is healthy this changes further, but I don't think the moves today indicate he'll be. In order to keep attracting college FAs, I'd look at giving Graf some games during the year. It was pretty big that we got him and he could be a serviceable 3rd liner in the future.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Nashville. They're not gonna want quantity over quality. I'd imagine Musty + would be the starting point. Musty + Ferraro + a 2nd.

I know Askarov is a very highly regarded goalie, and maybe I’ve just started paying attention to goalies during the era when the workhorse starter is less fashionable, but I just hate the idea of moving any significant assets for an unproven goalie (really, any goalie). Especially at this stage of the rebuild. If Adin Hill is “a championship quality” goaltender, I’m not all that unsure Blackwood isn’t equally up to the task. I’m not convinced that, barring maybe a dozen goaltenders, defensive system, structure, and talent aren’t far more relevant to goals against.

I know it’s easier said than done, but I’d much prefer that the org focus on building a scouting and development pipeline that can source quality goaltending from within; at least to the level that the team can build a credible homegrown platoon.

 

[Alaskanice]

I think there’s a clever workaround for a potential Nashville trade: Rutger McGroarty.

On the TSN broadcast, they talked about how difficult it is for WPG to attract and retain quality FA. They suggested that WPG tries to follow the PLD trade blueprint by bringing in multiple quality NHL players that are controlled for a while.

WPG also doesn’t have a 2025 2nd.

So what about:
-Ferraro
-SJ 2025 2nd
-Robins (Who is from Brandon, very close to Winnipeg)

For

-McGroarty

Then, turn around and trade:

-McGroarty
-Bordeleau
-The Ghost of Ozzy Wiseblatt’s trade
-One of the nine LD on the Cuda

For

-Askarov
-Fabbro

Not sure that’s enough but doesn’t feel too far off for me. A clever way to address some major, major needs for the Sharks.

*For any current Jets rumblings, Murat Ates on the Athletic just posted a good breakdown after today’s activity. Once again confirming WPG’s needs for a Dillon replacement and SJ’s interest in McG. (Paywall)

Nice to have confirmation that SJ is still interest. Your idea seems far reaching to me. Those kind of trades don’t happen often.

 

[TealManV]

I know Askarov is a very highly regarded goalie, and maybe I’ve just started paying attention to goalies during the era when the workhorse starter is less fashionable, but I just hate the idea of moving any significant assets for an unproven goalie (really, any goalie). Especially at this stage of the rebuild. If Adin Hill is “a championship quality” goaltender, I’m not all that unsure Blackwood isn’t equally up to the task. I’m not convinced that, barring maybe a dozen goaltenders, defensive system, structure, and talent aren’t far more relevant to goals against.

I know it’s easier said than done, but I’d much prefer that the org focus on building a scouting and development pipeline that can source quality goaltending from within; at least to the level that the team can build a credible homegrown platoon.

I get the logic here, especially that goalies are voodoo. That being said, Askarov is on a different level imo. If Grier was to acquire him, he’d instantly be a foundational piece of the new core with Celebrini, Eklund, Dickinson, and Smith.

And when you see the quality goalies that Russia has been producing recently, the case gets stronger.

Bob just won the cup after back to back finals appearances and strong playoff performances. Vasilevskiy is arguably the best goalie of this generation with two cups. Shesterkin is in his prime and is arguably the best goalie in the NHL. Sorokin is amazing.

If Grier can get Askarov without a major sacrifice, he has to do it. The Hills and Kuempers of the world be damned.

 

[TealManV]

Nice to have confirmation that SJ is still interest. Your idea seems far reaching to me. Those kind of trades don’t happen often.

Thank you. I try to reach as far as possible because creativity is lacking in the NHL except for teams like Vegas and Florida. Which is interesting since they’re both currently having a ton of success. Maybe there’s a correlation there.

But what specifically is far reaching? Do you think the offer for McG isn’t decent value? Or do you think the offer for Askarov isn’t proper value?

 

[Alaskanice]

Thank you. I try to reach as far as possible because creativity is lacking in the NHL except for teams like Vegas and Florida. Which is interesting since they’re both currently having a ton of success. Maybe there’s a correlation there.

But what specifically is far reaching? Do you think the offer for McG isn’t decent value? Or do you think the offer for Askarov isn’t proper value?

Those many moving pieces. I can say that the Timo trade was the last one I’ve seen like that in years.

 

[Bizz]

Cross one forward off the list.

Well then...

 

[Saskatoon]

So ends the saga of Ozzy Wiessblat

At least we got Goodrow back

 

[knu]

I hope Celebrini signs so we don't have this cloud of "See he/his dad are trying to get out". It's going to pop up once a month and derail a thread.

Now on to some positive thoughts. WILL SMITH IS A SHARK AND HES GOING TO BE PLAYING THIS YEAR WOOHOO!

 

[Star Platinum]

I hope Celebrini signs only because I don't want this cloud of "See he/his dad are trying to get out". It's going to pop up once a month and derail a thread.

Now on to some positive thoughts. WILL SMITH IS A SHARK AND HES GOING TO BE PLAYING THIS YEAR WOOHOO!

I want him to sign because I want to watch him play. If you're good enough to be drafted #1 in the draft and you have no holes in your game in your draft year, what are you going back to college for? To develop some holes?

Iron sharpens iron.

 

[ChompChomp]

I'm so sick of this rhetoric in the hockey world that "goalies are voodoo." Saying that completely discounts and discredits all the hard work and skill that goes into goaltending. Saying that makes it sound like coaching and development doesn't matter. Saying that makes it sounds like the NHL is just full of #1 netminders who have an .880 save percentage before the NHL and then magically throw up a .920 save percentage in the NHL. And then even when that happens, we should just say "goalies are voodoo" and not credit development.

Goalies aren't voodoo. It takes longer to develop into NHL goalies, but that doesn't make the process "voodoo." Devin Cooley just signed with the Flames. He isn't going to magically become their starting goalie and win a Vezina. If he does become Vezina caliber, it's going to be through amazing coaching and development.

Just look at the final 4 goalies this year:

Bobs - had very high save % (one year of .927) in the KHL, and then success in the NHL

Skinner - D-1 year had .920 save % in WHL, D year .905, injuries derailed his D+1 and D+2 years, but eventually he figured it out in the AHL and then NHL

Otter- D year, .927 in NCAA and good numbers from then on out in NCAA and NHL

Sheshterkin- 0.947 save % in MHL in D year and good in a few games in KHL. Numbers consistently good after in KHL, AHL and NHL.

There was no "voodoo" about these goalies. They worked their tails off to be good enough to get into the league, and through coaching and development got to where they are now. I could make a similar case for Adin Hill too. Having said that, some goalies benefit from teams with amazing defenses. But that doesn't mean voodoo was at work, unless voodoo was used to put together that D corps.

I have to imagine Warren Strelow rolls over in his grave every time someone spits out that line about voodoo.

There's nothing voodoo about Askarov. All of his Russian numbers are solid. His AHL numbers are solid. He's ready for the NHL. Don't know if the Sharks would give up what it takes to get him, but you can make the case that they should. 22 year old NHL ready stud goaltenders don't come around too often. He's a piece that if you get him, he's immediately one of the major core pieces right along with Celebrini and Smith. A trade for him probably requires major assets. Probably starts with the VGK unprotected 1st and one of Bystedt/Edstrom. And then some.

 

[Sendhelplease]

I would rather make sure we have a decent NHL caliber defense before trading lots of assets for a goaltender. Askarov looks like he will be a great goalie in the future but I don't want him to have to play behind a defense group that gave 10 goal games in back to back games. Goalies are also cheap to acquire in trades so I don't think it is necessary to make the move for a goalie now. Wait until the team is developed and the defense is at least decent and then I'd be supportive of trading a bundle of assets for a stud goalie.

 

[Crankshaft Mechanic]

There's nothing voodoo about Askarov. All of his Russian numbers are solid. His AHL numbers are solid. He's ready for the NHL. Don't know if the Sharks would give up what it takes to get him, but you can make the case that they should. 22 year old NHL ready stud goaltenders don't come around too often. He's a piece that if you get him, he's immediately one of the major core pieces right along with Celebrini and Smith. A trade for him probably requires major assets. Probably starts with the VGK unprotected 1st and one of Bystedt/Edstrom. And then some.

I know nothing about Askarov so not debating his potential. But basically two 1sts (one unprotected) + some throw ins seems way too much when looking at the current state of the goalie market (see: Markstrom and Ullmark).

 

[TealManV]

I'm so sick of this rhetoric in the hockey world that "goalies are voodoo." Saying that completely discounts and discredits all the hard work and skill that goes into goaltending. Saying that makes it sound like coaching and development doesn't matter. Saying that makes it sounds like the NHL is just full of #1 netminders who have an .880 save percentage before the NHL and then magically throw up a .920 save percentage in the NHL. And then even when that happens, we should just say "goalies are voodoo" and not credit development.

Goalies aren't voodoo. It takes longer to develop into NHL goalies, but that doesn't make the process "voodoo." Devin Cooley just signed with the Flames. He isn't going to magically become their starting goalie and win a Vezina. If he does become Vezina caliber, it's going to be through amazing coaching and development.

Just look at the final 4 goalies this year:

Bobs - had very high save % (one year of .927) in the KHL, and then success in the NHL

Skinner - D-1 year had .920 save % in WHL, D year .905, injuries derailed his D+1 and D+2 years, but eventually he figured it out in the AHL and then NHL

Otter- D year, .927 in NCAA and good numbers from then on out in NCAA and NHL

Sheshterkin- 0.947 save % in MHL in D year and good in a few games in KHL. Numbers consistently good after in KHL, AHL and NHL.

There was no "voodoo" about these goalies. They worked their tails off to be good enough to get into the league, and through coaching and development got to where they are now. I could make a similar case for Adin Hill too. Having said that, some goalies benefit from teams with amazing defenses. But that doesn't mean voodoo was at work, unless voodoo was used to put together that D corps.

I have to imagine Warren Strelow rolls over in his grave every time someone spits out that line about voodoo.

There's nothing voodoo about Askarov. All of his Russian numbers are solid. His AHL numbers are solid. He's ready for the NHL. Don't know if the Sharks would give up what it takes to get him, but you can make the case that they should. 22 year old NHL ready stud goaltenders don't come around too often. He's a piece that if you get him, he's immediately one of the major core pieces right along with Celebrini and Smith. A trade for him probably requires major assets. Probably starts with the VGK unprotected 1st and one of Bystedt/Edstrom. And then some.

That was a masterclass. Very well done!

There were nine “voodoos” in there. Took me back to high school. Now I have Godsmack stuck in my head.

 

[tiburon12]

I'm so sick of this rhetoric in the hockey world that "goalies are voodoo." Saying that completely discounts and discredits all the hard work and skill that goes into goaltending. Saying that makes it sound like coaching and development doesn't matter. Saying that makes it sounds like the NHL is just full of #1 netminders who have an .880 save percentage before the NHL and then magically throw up a .920 save percentage in the NHL. And then even when that happens, we should just say "goalies are voodoo" and not credit development.

Goalies aren't voodoo. It takes longer to develop into NHL goalies, but that doesn't make the process "voodoo." Devin Cooley just signed with the Flames. He isn't going to magically become their starting goalie and win a Vezina. If he does become Vezina caliber, it's going to be through amazing coaching and development.

Just look at the final 4 goalies this year:

Bobs - had very high save % (one year of .927) in the KHL, and then success in the NHL

Skinner - D-1 year had .920 save % in WHL, D year .905, injuries derailed his D+1 and D+2 years, but eventually he figured it out in the AHL and then NHL

Otter- D year, .927 in NCAA and good numbers from then on out in NCAA and NHL

Sheshterkin- 0.947 save % in MHL in D year and good in a few games in KHL. Numbers consistently good after in KHL, AHL and NHL.

There was no "voodoo" about these goalies. They worked their tails off to be good enough to get into the league, and through coaching and development got to where they are now. I could make a similar case for Adin Hill too. Having said that, some goalies benefit from teams with amazing defenses. But that doesn't mean voodoo was at work, unless voodoo was used to put together that D corps.

I have to imagine Warren Strelow rolls over in his grave every time someone spits out that line about voodoo.

There's nothing voodoo about Askarov. All of his Russian numbers are solid. His AHL numbers are solid. He's ready for the NHL. Don't know if the Sharks would give up what it takes to get him, but you can make the case that they should. 22 year old NHL ready stud goaltenders don't come around too often. He's a piece that if you get him, he's immediately one of the major core pieces right along with Celebrini and Smith. A trade for him probably requires major assets. Probably starts with the VGK unprotected 1st and one of Bystedt/Edstrom. And then some.

I've recently subscribed to the idea that goalies can only reach their potential if the system around them supports their play style. In other words, 1+1 can be greater or less than 2.

To be more relevant to your post - I think Askarov will only be as "good" as the team around him plays in support of his weaknesses.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

I'm so sick of this rhetoric in the hockey world that "goalies are voodoo." Saying that completely discounts and discredits all the hard work and skill that goes into goaltending. Saying that makes it sound like coaching and development doesn't matter. Saying that makes it sounds like the NHL is just full of #1 netminders who have an .880 save percentage before the NHL and then magically throw up a .920 save percentage in the NHL. And then even when that happens, we should just say "goalies are voodoo" and not credit development.

Goalies aren't voodoo. It takes longer to develop into NHL goalies, but that doesn't make the process "voodoo." Devin Cooley just signed with the Flames. He isn't going to magically become their starting goalie and win a Vezina. If he does become Vezina caliber, it's going to be through amazing coaching and development.

Just look at the final 4 goalies this year:

Bobs - had very high save % (one year of .927) in the KHL, and then success in the NHL

Skinner - D-1 year had .920 save % in WHL, D year .905, injuries derailed his D+1 and D+2 years, but eventually he figured it out in the AHL and then NHL

Otter- D year, .927 in NCAA and good numbers from then on out in NCAA and NHL

Sheshterkin- 0.947 save % in MHL in D year and good in a few games in KHL. Numbers consistently good after in KHL, AHL and NHL.

There was no "voodoo" about these goalies. They worked their tails off to be good enough to get into the league, and through coaching and development got to where they are now. I could make a similar case for Adin Hill too. Having said that, some goalies benefit from teams with amazing defenses. But that doesn't mean voodoo was at work, unless voodoo was used to put together that D corps.

I have to imagine Warren Strelow rolls over in his grave every time someone spits out that line about voodoo.

There's nothing voodoo about Askarov. All of his Russian numbers are solid. His AHL numbers are solid. He's ready for the NHL. Don't know if the Sharks would give up what it takes to get him, but you can make the case that they should. 22 year old NHL ready stud goaltenders don't come around too often. He's a piece that if you get him, he's immediately one of the major core pieces right along with Celebrini and Smith. A trade for him probably requires major assets. Probably starts with the VGK unprotected 1st and one of Bystedt/Edstrom. And then some.

Firstly, if you replace “voodoo” with “hard to accurately project” you’ll both have a better understanding of what is actually being communicated and also lower your cortisol levels

While there are a handful of goalies that can be counted on to reliably turn in excellent results season after season; for the most part, even highly regarded goaltenders, show either great variance from season to season or have a small window of success and fall back to mediocrity.

On top of all that, there are many examples of teams finding success with mid-AF goalies, and teams with amazing goaltending failing to be consistent winners. Simultaneously drafting goalies proves challenging when greats consistently come from later rounds, and early round “sure fire” picks flame out or end up no better than what is readily available every year in the UFA market at affordable prices.

Lastly, and this is probably a hot take, even the great Strelow, having coached all the goalies he did over his rightfully illustrious career only has, in subjective order of historical significance, Brodeur, Kiprusoff, and Nabby as disciples with prolonged track records of high-level play. One enjoyed, to great effect, the benefits of one of the most consistently stifling defensive systems for much of his career (not to diminish Brodeur’s accomplishments), and the other two never managed to put together a complete post-season (not entirely their faults, but true nonetheless). Beyond those three, Strelows pupils largely amount to league average goaltenders or worse.

All of this is to say, I’m not sure anyone can really say with high confidence or success how a goaltenders career is going to play out. So investing heavy assets in a young goaltender with limited NHL experience seems risky. I’ll grant you that of the goaltenders currently not in the NHL to make that bet on Askarov seems like a better bet than most.

 

[OffSydes]

As the roster comes together I would like to remind everyone

Every signing and draft pick that pans out - I was for
Every signing and draft pick that does not pan out - I was against

 

[STL Shark]

I really think Trouba will be stubborn and no team that is not on his no-trade list will pay an asset for him.

So he gets waived. Picked up by the Sharks and that concludes a perfect offseason by Grier. Maybe a Ferraro for a 1st trade would be the cherry on top.

Could also see a path where Trouba doesn't report wherever. His exit with Winnipeg wasn't harmonious to say the least. Think he's holding out to stay in NY and nothing that they did yesterday really precludes it from happening right now. My guess is he gets another kick at the can with NYR and they go with the same group again for next year that won the President's Trophy and went 6 games in the conference final with the Cup Champs.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Could also see a path where Trouba doesn't report wherever. His exit with Winnipeg wasn't harmonious to say the least. Think he's holding out to stay in NY and nothing that they did yesterday really precludes it from happening right now. My guess is he gets another kick at the can with NYR and they go with the same group again for next year that won the President's Trophy and went 6 games in the conference final with the Cup Champs.

Yeah I could see that happening. At this point there are not many obvious options to spend the $8 million the Rangers will gain. Tarasanko? Marner?

I believe his wife was or still is in a residency program which is why he wanted out of Winnipeg. I heard Stanford has a decent hospital. Maybe that could be a draw for San Jose as an option.

 

[Gecklund]

As the roster comes together I would like to remind everyone

Every signing and draft pick that pans out - I was for
Every signing and draft pick that does not pan out - I was against

this also works for trades.

 

[ChompChomp]

I know nothing about Askarov so not debating his potential. But basically two 1sts (one unprotected) + some throw ins seems way too much when looking at the current state of the goalie market (see: Markstrom and Ullmark).

That's fair, but it's probably the Nashville demand.

 

[ChompChomp]

Firstly, if you replace “voodoo” with “hard to accurately project” you’ll both have a better understanding of what is actually being communicated and also lower your cortisol levels

While there are a handful of goalies that can be counted on to reliably turn in excellent results season after season; for the most part, even highly regarded goaltenders, show either great variance from season to season or have a small window of success and fall back to mediocrity.

On top of all that, there are many examples of teams finding success with mid-AF goalies, and teams with amazing goaltending failing to be consistent winners. Simultaneously drafting goalies proves challenging when greats consistently come from later rounds, and early round “sure fire” picks flame out or end up no better than what is readily available every year in the UFA market at affordable prices.

Lastly, and this is probably a hot take, even the great Strelow, having coached all the goalies he did over his rightfully illustrious career only has, in subjective order of historical significance, Brodeur, Kiprusoff, and Nabby as disciples with prolonged track records of high-level play. One enjoyed, to great effect, the benefits of one of the most consistently stifling defensive systems for much of his career (not to diminish Brodeur’s accomplishments), and the other two never managed to put together a complete post-season (not entirely their faults, but true nonetheless). Beyond those three, Strelows pupils largely amount to league average goaltenders or worse.

All of this is to say, I’m not sure anyone can really say with high confidence or success how a goaltenders career is going to play out. So investing heavy assets in a young goaltender with limited NHL experience seems risky. I’ll grant you that of the goaltenders currently not in the NHL to make that bet on Askarov seems like a better bet than most.

Thank you for this response.

Yes there are many example of winning teams with mid-AF goalies. It doesn't change the fact that those goalies are still mid-AF. I mentioned in my post the Adin Hill example. You can win in this league with a mid goalie + amazing defense.

As to drafting goalies, my point is, you can apply the same logic to non-goalies too. The current and recent Sharks teams have their fair share of former first round picks who never met their supposed potential. Forwards bust out just as much as goalies too, maybe more so. The only difference is that we tend to know sooner if a forward is a bust versus a goalie.

I think saying goalies are "harder to accurately project" is fair, but in no way is using the word "voodoo" a fair word and disrespects everything it takes to make it as an NHL goalie.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

I would rather make sure we have a decent NHL caliber defense before trading lots of assets for a goaltender. Askarov looks like he will be a great goalie in the future but I don't want him to have to play behind a defense group that gave 10 goal games in back to back games. Goalies are also cheap to acquire in trades so I don't think it is necessary to make the move for a goalie now. Wait until the team is developed and the defense is at least decent and then I'd be supportive of trading a bundle of assets for a stud goalie.

This is the post.

Askarov would be a dream but we'll be throwing him like a lamb to slaughter until we get our D much, much improved. How many fans of other teams would say this is an NHL defense?

I'd keep juggling and see if we have anything in Vanacek / Blackwood for now and put those assets into D if we're going to trade anyone...

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Could also see a path where Trouba doesn't report wherever. His exit with Winnipeg wasn't harmonious to say the least. Think he's holding out to stay in NY and nothing that they did yesterday really precludes it from happening right now. My guess is he gets another kick at the can with NYR and they go with the same group again for next year that won the President's Trophy and went 6 games in the conference final with the Cup Champs.

While I was a pretty heavily for adding Trouba as he, even with his faults, would be a major upgrade for the Sharks; I don’t think it’s in the cards for the Sharks, at least for this season. It just got published (I don’t have the link) that his whole NMC was so he didn’t have to move while his wife completed her residency, with the intention it became a MNTC once she completed her residency. Unfortunately her residency was extended a year when she had a baby.

They have a 9 month old and his wife still has a year left on the residency. While I’m mostly of a mind that players should take less money if NMC is paramount to them, and deal with trades like professionals if they choose not to sacrifice for that concession; in this case I don’t think it’s reasonable to force his family to be apart while his wife completes her residency. I’d hate to see a family punished because Trouba’s partner is a professional in a highly demanding vocation and I can’t imagine the Sharks will get an invested player in Trouba if he has to play the season while his wife and baby are living in the other side of the country.

Maybe next season.