2023-24 #2: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc.

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deadhead

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It also doesn't factor in one was playing in the league for the first time. The biggest jump in Junior production is almost always from the 1st season to the 2nd season in the league (as Luchanko showed).
There tends to be two jumps

Luchanko was a part-time player at 16, 46g 14 points, made the jump in his second year at 17.
We'll see what he does this season.
No point jumping to conclusions until the spring.
 
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renberg

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My theory is simple, trust your scouts, stick to your board, if your scouts are wrong, get new scouts.
Then it’s time to get new scouts. When 12 came up, they were totally unprepared for the board being what it was. Trading back to 13 was merely a move to buy more time that did nothing to change the situation. Taking Buium, even if it was only to trade him out later, was the move to be made. The Flyers board was off because their scouts had flubbed it once again leaving them caged in to make a weak selection. Luchanko is not a stiff but not worthy of being selected where he was. Can the scouting team.
 

deadhead

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My philosophy is also simple: if a team admits to drafting for fit because of a former 2nd round possible tweener in the system, nuke from orbit.
If they were drafting for fit, why didn't they take Helenius?
They like Luchanko better, probably because lower floor, higher ceiling. Gamble on upside.
 

blackjackmulligan

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Then it’s time to get new scouts. When 12 came up, they were totally unprepared for the board being what it was. Trading back to 13 was merely a move to buy more time that did nothing to change the situation. Taking Buium, even if it was only to trade him out later, was the move to be made. The Flyers board was off because their scouts had flubbed it once again leaving them caged in to make a weak selection. Luchanko is not a stiff but not worthy of being selected where he was. Can the scouting team.
They are an incompetent bunch no doubt. However, I do not buy that. You make many contingency plans. They just didn't want him for whatever reason. The agent imo being one of them.
 
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Ironmanrulez

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Then it’s time to get new scouts. When 12 came up, they were totally unprepared for the board being what it was. Trading back to 13 was merely a move to buy more time that did nothing to change the situation. Taking Buium, even if it was only to trade him out later, was the move to be made. The Flyers board was off because their scouts had flubbed it once again leaving them caged in to make a weak selection. Luchanko is not a stiff but not worthy of being selected where he was. Can the scouting team.
Briere is the GM. Its his JOB to manage the draft! We see it in the NFL how Howie is communicating with his team! Its not a scout problem. Its the Orders the GM give them!

I'am all for new scouts! But not taking Buium isnt on the scouts! Everyone can see Buium was the pick 100%. No one needs a scout for that!
 

deadhead

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Buium was 6th D-man taken.
Obviously the media consensus wasn't the scouting consensus.
We'll find out who was right in a few years.
 
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renberg

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Briere is the GM. Its his JOB to manage the draft! We see it in the NFL how Howie is communicating with his team! Its not a scout problem. Its the Orders the GM give them!

I'am all for new scouts! But not taking Buium isnt on the scouts! Everyone can see Buium was the pick 100%. No one needs a scout for that!
You're right in that Briere has to be more decisive. I can see him turning to Flahr, looking at their board that the scouts made and then taking a pass on Buium. Briere has to be more assertive. There's nothing in the record of Flahr and his scouts that shows that Briere should defer to them.
 

deadhead

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You're right in that Briere has to be more decisive. I can see him turning to Flahr, looking at their board that the scouts made and then taking a pass on Buium. Briere has to be more assertive. There's nothing in the record of Flahr and his scouts that shows that Briere should defer to them.
Whether right or wrong, I'm sure they discussed every player that might fall to them ad nauseam.
This wasn't a spur of the moment decision.
They simply didn't value Buium as highly as the media - in 2-3 years we'll know who was right.

The only decision was how far they could trade down and still land Luchanko, and Wheeler reports that at least two teams were prepared to take him in the teens.
So 15th was probably as low as Briere was prepared to go in a trade.
 

renberg

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They simply didn't value Buium as highly as the media - in 2-3 years we'll know who was right.
I believe that Buium's agent is Kurt Overhardt; the same agent who represents Cutter Gauthier. That had to be a part of the reason that Buium fell to the Flyers at 12. They should have been prepared for that and had a better back up plan than to trade back one slot for a player that was not worthy of that draft position. Nygaard, Jiricek, Eisenman, Hage and Boisvert were sitting there to be taken. They Flyers went a different direction and picked a guy that according to most assessments will, at best, be a third line center.
 

deadhead

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I believe that Buium's agent is Kurt Overhardt; the same agent who represents Cutter Gauthier. That had to be a part of the reason that Buium fell to the Flyers at 12. They should have been prepared for that and had a better back up plan than to trade back one slot for a player that was not worthy of that draft position. Nygaard, Jiricek, Eisenman, Hage and Boisvert were sitting there to be taken. They Flyers went a different direction and picked a guy that according to most assessments will, at best, be a third line center.
I don't take media assessments seriously, Hurts was supposed to be a backup QB. Patrick was a "sure thing." Oh well.
 

renberg

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I don't take media assessments seriously, Hurts was supposed to be a backup QB. Patrick was a "sure thing." Oh well.
Fine but I don’t take the assessment s of Flyers scouts seriously. IMO Nygaard and Hage both have more pro potential. We’ll see how it plays out. I fear that the Flyers lack of ability in the FO struck again.
 

Magua

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“Media assessments,” he says, on a forum where we routinely disagree with media assessments. For the 182820100th time, no one evaluatively cares what McKenzie’s rankings say. But at least have the courtesy to dispute what we say in a conversation. Lord knows we waste too much time saying it.
 

deadhead

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“Media assessments,” he says, on a forum where we routinely disagree with media assessments. For the 182820100th time, no one evaluatively cares what McKenzie’s rankings say. But at least have the courtesy to dispute what we say in a conversation. Lord knows we waste too much time saying it.
So what team do you work for?

I'll just wait a year and see what happens?
Wasn't Bonk a reach this time last year?
 
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Appleyard

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Buium was 6th D-man taken.
Obviously the media consensus wasn't the scouting consensus.
We'll find out who was right in a few years.

The scouting consensus was not just how good a player he is and his potential... if ability was the only qualifier he would have gone a fair but higher.

But a lot of teams had the ~#5-12 range pretty closely grouped... if he had a different agent I believe the Flyers would have picked him... but if he had a different agent I believe he would not have made it to #10.

Now, maybe I am wrong. But they are the rumblings...
 

Magua

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So what team do you work for?

I'll just wait a year and see what happens?
Wasn't Bonk a reach this time last year?

So, your argument is that consensus rankings shouldn’t be trusted (true), this forum shouldn’t be trusted (your choice, despite never watching these players), but the Flyers foolproof never wrong amateur scouting should be trusted with blind faith. I know that’s your argument because it’s always been your argument, but it’s still a dubious appeal-to-the-authority-of-your-choice argument. What are you adding to the debate?

The people on this forum have called their shots for years. The proof is annual. To hilarious degree. Wait years; be my guest. I’ll appreciate your silence and patience on all subjects until 2029.
 

deadhead

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The scouting consensus was not just how good a player he is and his potential... if ability was the only qualifier he would have gone a fair but higher.

But a lot of teams had the ~#5-12 range pretty closely grouped... if he had a different agent I believe the Flyers would have picked him... but if he had a different agent I believe he would not have made it to #10.

Now, maybe I am wrong. But they are the rumblings...
Maybe it was the agent. But teams tend to make informal contact, I'm not sure it would be considered tampering unless you conspired with the agent to discourage other teams. I'd think that any team worried about the agent would have made sure they were an acceptable destination.

It wasn't size, he's going to be 6'0 200+, while not huge, certainly not "small."

Flyers still could have gone with Helenius, who wasn't far behind Buium.
So it wasn't so much a reach for position, but a gamble on upside.
 

deadhead

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So, your argument is that consensus rankings shouldn’t be trusted (true), this forum shouldn’t be trusted (your choice, despite never watching these players), but the Flyers foolproof never wrong amateur scouting should be trusted with blind faith. I know that’s your argument because it’s always been your argument, but it’s still a dubious appeal-to-the-authority-of-your-choice argument. What are you adding to the debate?

The people on this forum have called their shots for years. The proof is annual. To hilarious degree. Wait years; be my guest. I’ll appreciate your silence and patience on all subjects until 2029.
My point is "trust no one my friend, no one."

Of course, Comrade Beef should know this one: ""I trust no one, not even myself."
 
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