Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Part 5

[JTBF81]

You have to stop believing Jon Cooper will play a defenseman on his weak side. It's been over 10 years. He doesn't do it.


I don't think anyone projected him to be NHL ready even before the trade.

It's uncommon for dmen to play on their off side with Cooper, but Moser has been reasonably effective on the right. If they want Lilleberg to be able to progress with his career, it would make sense to have him be the 3LD next to Moser. They could run
Hedman-Raddysh
McD-Cernak
Lilleberg-Moser
Perbix or Crozier
If Perbix is still on the team I'm sure he'll get plenty of games, but barring injury, Lilleberg would be completely blocked on the left side, leaving him to play only when they run 11/7. They could also try Moser next to Hedman and Lilleberg with one of Raddysh/Perbix. When Cernak inevitably misses time with injury, having Moser have right side exp.will be even more valuable.

 

[Outl4w]

JBB going to give moser 4.75 x 8 watch.

 

[Felonious Python]

Yeah that's the conventional wisdom of most franchises. But the Lightning rarely follow it and are stubborn as hell about their way of doing things. That being, if the Lightning define a specific role for a player (especially one as skilled as Geekie) you better be able to do it immediately. Otherwise we either end up burying them in Syracuse for all eternity like Slater Koekkoek or Alex Barre-Boule for the sake of playing time. Or we just flat out trade them like Verhaeghe and Marchessault. The Lightning are utterly inflexible on this. If they don't smell a 2nd line center in Geekie the second he walks into the locker room, he might as well buy a house in Syracuse. We almost never take the time to groom prospects at the NHL level. Imagine Drouin and Stamkos playing all of maybe 14 games together in 3 years. Because think of Stamkos being healthy at the time. And all the while the Lightning refuse to unchain Drouin from the bench and the 4th line because he wasn't Ondrej Palat. Stamkos gets hurt and suddenly the Lightning pull the stick from their ass on Drouin. I'm sure you remember Drouin in our series vs Pittsburgh and then Stamkos blowing out his knee a few games into the next year. I don't think we have changed or learned a lesson from that experience or any of the other guys we let walk who immediately succeeded

If the future of the Lightning didn't ride so much on finding another 1st or 2nd line center and top 4 pairing defender as it did in 2017, I am skeptical Point and Sergachev would have ever made it to our team when they did. But I've been wrong before

Every player has their own development path, but they better be able to play either offense or defense in the NHL. No space for guys who bring nothing but potential.

I think it's a valid question if the Detroit model of draft and develop is the 'best' way, or if it just kind of works out well when you've already got a good team. It's not like the Red Wings have gone anywhere the last number of years.

 

[These Are The Days]

It's uncommon for dmen to play on their off side with Cooper, but Moser has been reasonably effective on the right. If they want Lilleberg to be able to progress with his career, it would make sense to have him be the 3LD next to Moser. They could run
Hedman-Raddysh
McD-Cernak
Lilleberg-Moser
Perbix or Crozier
If Perbix is still on the team I'm sure he'll get plenty of games, but barring injury, Lilleberg would be completely blocked on the left side, leaving him to play only when they run 11/7. They could also try Moser next to Hedman and Lilleberg with one of Raddysh/Perbix. When Cernak inevitably misses time with injury, having Moser have right side exp.will be even more valuable.

I don't know.... I WISH it would go down that way. But don't see a lefty playing the right side happening until a night comes where we have lost every right handed defender in the lineup to injury. And even then I feel like it is a coin flip that Coop would just say "Alright Luke Glendening go play the right side" no differently than when we had Luke Witkowski play forward a few times. But then we'd get at least one right handed call up from Syracuse

God he's so stubborn

 

[DistantThunderRep]

JBB going to give moser 4.75 x 8 watch.

You say this like that's a bad thing. With increasing cap and if Moser even caps out at as the 3LD, that's actually not the worst deal over 8 years.

 

[Rschmitz]

JBB going to give moser 4.75 x 8 watch.

You say this like that's a bad thing. With increasing cap and if Moser even caps out at as the 3LD, that's actually not the worst deal over 8 years.

Agreed with DTR, that would be an excellent use of our remaining cap space and a great deal for us. Buys 6 UFA years and most of his prime while McDonagh and Hedman are heading out to pasture. I hope you're right.

 

[Outl4w]

I don't know.... I WISH it would go down that way. But don't see a lefty playing the right side happening until a night comes where we have lost every right handed defender in the lineup to injury. And even then I feel like it is a coin flip that Coop would just say "Alright Luke Glendening go play the right side" no differently than when we had Luke Witkowski play forward a few times. But then we'd get at least one right handed call up from Syracuse

God he's so stub

You say this like that's a bad thing. With increasing cap and if Moser even caps out at as the 3LD, that's actually not the worst deal over 8 years.

WE have no evidence he is worth that for the Lightning.

 

[Todd1a]

You have to stop believing Jon Cooper will play a defenseman on his weak side. It's been over 10 years. He doesn't do it.


I don't think anyone projected him to be NHL ready even before the trade.

They will start geekie with the crunch if he does well there for two months and or 3rd line stinks then I can see them calling him up

 

[TampaIceman]

Coop did play Perbix on the left side fairly regularly after we acquired Dumba but that may have been in desperation due to injuries.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Coop did play Perbix on the left side fairly regularly after we acquired Dumba but that may have been in desperation due to injuries.

That was because we had mostly RHD. Perbix was absolutely garbage on the left side.

 

[DFC]

It's uncommon for dmen to play on their off side with Cooper, but Moser has been reasonably effective on the right. If they want Lilleberg to be able to progress with his career, it would make sense to have him be the 3LD next to Moser. They could run
Hedman-Raddysh
McD-Cernak
Lilleberg-Moser
Perbix or Crozier
If Perbix is still on the team I'm sure he'll get plenty of games, but barring injury, Lilleberg would be completely blocked on the left side, leaving him to play only when they run 11/7. They could also try Moser next to Hedman and Lilleberg with one of Raddysh/Perbix. When Cernak inevitably misses time with injury, having Moser have right side exp.will be even more valuable.

I know you're thinking this makes a lot of sense. And does it? Sure. But Jon Cooper does not do it. Not for more than 5 or 6 games uf he's forced to. Braydon Coburn spent most of his career as a lefty playing the right. Then he got traded to TB.

It's just wishful thinking. We have seen the guy refuse to do it for literally a decade, and now Moser is the new toy we think he will play on the right. And then he won't.

 

[AHockeyFanatic]

This organization likes to take their time with prospects and Geekie is already a project.

He has to stand out at camp before he’s even in the discussion

I agree, unfortunately he does look like more of the project type.

Limited sample aside, based on what we saw in that 3v3 camp unless he lights up the AHL for the first 2-3 months I think he’s still a season or two away.

 

[AHockeyFanatic]

How many games better do you all think this team is compared to last year? I’d say 5-10.

 

[Rschmitz]

How many games better do you all think this team is compared to last year? I’d say 5-10.

My first thought is, that's not a lot. 10 wins comfortably gets us the Presidents trophy though so it's quite a bit

 

[JTBF81]

I know you're thinking this makes a lot of sense. And does it? Sure. But Jon Cooper does not do it. Not for more than 5 or 6 games uf he's forced to. Braydon Coburn spent most of his career as a lefty playing the right. Then he got traded to TB.

It's just wishful thinking. We have seen the guy refuse to do it for literally a decade, and now Moser is the new toy we think he will play on the right. And then he won't.

Then signing Lilleberg for two additional years after the upcoming season didn't make a lot of sense, at least not for Lilleberg. If Moser isn't deployed on the right, Lilleberg basically gets his continuing development and progression completely stunted in Tampa. If that's the case, I'd hope they trade him rather than have him sit in the press box all year.

 

[ccman68]

Then signing Lilleberg for two additional years after the upcoming season didn't make a lot of sense, at least not for Lilleberg. If Moser isn't deployed on the right, Lilleberg basically gets his continuing development and progression completely stunted in Tampa. If that's the case, I'd hope they trade him rather than have him sit in the press box all year.

cernak’s gonna be injured for like half the year so there’ll be plenty of ice time for lilleberg

 

[DFC]

Then signing Lilleberg for two additional years after the upcoming season didn't make a lot of sense, at least not for Lilleberg. If Moser isn't deployed on the right, Lilleberg basically gets his continuing development and progression completely stunted in Tampa. If that's the case, I'd hope they trade him rather than have him sit in the press box all year.

He's not a valued prospect. He will be the extra guy. Cooper also has a history of that.

 

[Antiramie]

How many games better do you all think this team is compared to last year? I’d say 5-10.

5

 

[JTBF81]

cernak’s gonna be injured for like half the year so there’ll be plenty of ice time for lilleberg

Yeah, given Cernak's injury problems, that'll probably be the case.

 

[JTBF81]

He's not a valued prospect. He will be the extra guy. Cooper also has a history of that.

I don't think they him.as having that little value.He stepped up well enough last year with Serg and Cernak missing a lot of time. I can't see him relegated to the 7D position for the next 2-3 years.

 

[Todd1a]

JBB going to give moser 4.75 x 8 watch.

That would go against his in house rule of they have to take a 3 year bridge deal before he over pays the 8 year deal !

 

[Todd1a]

How many games better do you all think this team is compared to last year? I’d say 5-10.

Looking at what we have right now I don’t see an improvement I’d say a wild card team and 1st round and out unless something big gets added at the trade deadline .

You basically traded Mac for sergy and guentzel for stamkos and right now sheary is still projected for second line RW.

3rd line isn’t really any better

Moser we really don’t know what we have with him yet

 

[Rschmitz]

That would go against his in house rule of they have to take a 3 year bridge deal before he over pays the 8 year deal !

I think you have to make an exception in this case, not a lot of team control left and hes already 24

 

[Rschmitz]

Looking at what we have right now I don’t see an improvement I’d say a wild card team and 1st round and out unless something big gets added at the trade deadline .

You basically traded Mac for sergy and guentzel for stamkos and right now sheary is still projected for second line RW.

3rd line isn’t really any better

Moser we really don’t know what we have with him yet

Just trading Sergachev massively upgraded the team. Hedman now gets the bulk of the offensive opportunities and easier minutes, McDonagh produces near what Sergachev does 5v5 with elite level defense in a role he's succeeded in before, and Moser is a top 4 D on the third pairing, upgrading AHL tier defense. I think one extra year of experience for Raddysh and Perbix will be noticeable as well, especially Raddysh who showed he's quite capable in the top 4.

Guentzel could potentially be a 100 point forward on the top line, bumping Hagel down to Cirelli's LW where both have shown great chemistry together. That's another 2 upgrades for 1 special if we go that route with the lineup.

We should see a downgrade on the PP and faceoffs because of no Stamkos, but I think it's mitigated quite a bit because we have guys who can pick up the slack, where as we simply couldn't clean up the disaster on our D and 2nd line last year.

The other new pieces should provide some marginal improvements as well, Atkinson instantly gives us a veteran scoring presence we didn't have last year before Duclair, and Girgensons makes our bottom lineup one of the most difficult to play against in the league.

2nd Line and D however is the real story. The team is going to look a lot different from last year when it comes to puck control and shots allowed. Our shot suppression improvement will be immense.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Just trading Sergachev massively upgraded the team. Hedman now gets the bulk of the offensive opportunities and easier minutes, McDonagh produces near what Sergachev does 5v5 with elite level defense in a role he's succeeded in before, and Moser is a top 4 D on the third pairing, upgrading AHL tier defense. I think one extra year of experience for Raddysh and Perbix will be noticeable as well, especially Raddysh who showed he's quite capable in the top 4.

Guentzel could potentially be a 100 point forward on the top line, bumping Hagel down to Cirelli's LW where both have shown great chemistry together. That's another 2 upgrades for 1 special if we go that route with the lineup.

We should see a downgrade on the PP and faceoffs because of no Stamkos, but I think it's mitigated quite a bit because we have guys who can pick up the slack, where as we simply couldn't clean up the disaster on our D and 2nd line last year.

The other new pieces should provide some marginal improvements as well, Atkinson instantly gives us a veteran scoring presence we didn't have last year before Duclair, and Girgensons makes our bottom lineup one of the most difficult to play against in the league.

2nd Line and D however is the real story. The team is going to look a lot different from last year when it comes to puck control and shots allowed. Our shot suppression improvement will be immense.

Need Atkinson to actually produce at a decent clip and Hagel to not go on a long goal-less drought if he's on the 2nd line. But I like your points here.