Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Part 5

[Flat Ronnie]

Only way around it is some combination of Moser coming in cheaper than expected, Sherry being moved or the Lightning roll with a roster of 20 or 21

Even if all those things come together, you're probably looking at a top 6 winger at $2.5-3M?

 

[Lightning1995]

Even if all those things come together, you're probably looking at a top 6 winger at $2.5-3M?

Yup

 

[DFC]

Hedman will be captain without question. We're likely a much better team next year as well.

I don't see how we are a lot better, unless there's still more coming. A little better, yeah. Sergachev made way too much money, but he's still a loss, as was Stamkos. Replacing them with Guentzel and Moser seems like a small win for us, but not a big one. I think we have the potential to be much better still, but as of now I think it's slight.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

I don't see how we are a lot better, unless there's still more coming. A little better, yeah. Sergachev made way too much money, but he's still a loss, as was Stamkos. Replacing them with Guentzel and Moser seems like a small win for us, but not a big one. I think we have the potential to be much better still, but as of now I think it's slight.

This is exactly how I see it. Except, I don't see the potential to get that much better. We don't have enough cap to bring in another difference maker.

 

[TampaIceman]

Needed to put in the mixer and maybe get better chemistry. Let’s be honest, two straight seasons with a flat regular season and first round exit maybe the room needed a shake up as much as it is sad to lose a franchise legend.

 

[gn2007]

Trotz litereally makes JBB his bitch like no joke. We trade for mcdonagh we say we are getting younger. We trade sergachev away and got guentzel and lost stammer. We could have kept sergachev and never traded for mcdonagh that's why JBB is a pure clown

 

[DaBolts]

Get Hedmonster $2 million+ per year over this years salary with a 3 year extension, then things start moving. We have to lock him down until 2028.

Trotz litereally makes JBB his bitch like no joke. We trade for mcdonagh we say we are getting younger. We trade sergachev away and got guentzel and lost stammer. We could have kept sergachev and never traded for mcdonagh that's why JBB is a pure clown

I think Serge is hurt worse than everyone is letting on. Just a gut feeling.

 

[Sky04]

I don't see how we are a lot better, unless there's still more coming. A little better, yeah. Sergachev made way too much money, but he's still a loss, as was Stamkos. Replacing them with Guentzel and Moser seems like a small win for us, but not a big one. I think we have the potential to be much better still, but as of now I think it's slight.

If only we got another defenseman who's elite defensively and logs 20+mins a night also.

Trotz litereally makes JBB his bitch like no joke. We trade for mcdonagh we say we are getting younger. We trade sergachev away and got guentzel and lost stammer. We could have kept sergachev and never traded for mcdonagh that's why JBB is a pure clown

Trotz signed Stamkos for 8M, that should be firable. And Sergachev is awful for the money. Give JBB a raise.

 

[ccman68]

stamkos i can understand people being mad at losing but sergachev just isn’t all that. utah is gonna be in for a rude awakening having him as their #1 defenseman

 

[HoseEmDown]

Guys Sheary makes 2M not 5, not sure why everyone thinks we need to buy him out. It would make more sense to just bury him in Syracuse for the next 2 years.

 

[gn2007]

If only we got another defenseman who's elite defensively and logs 20+mins a night also.



Trotz signed Stamkos for 8M, that should be firable. And Sergachev is awful for the money. Give JBB a raise.

Who says we couldn't sign gustafsson to this?

Erik Gustafsson Contract, Cap Hit, Salary and Stats - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Erik Gustafsson contract, salary, cap hit, salary cap, aav, career earnings, lifetime earnings, aav, advanced stats, transaction history, trade history, and rfa or ufa free agent status

www.capfriendly.com

Stamkos at 8 mil with tampa 1st and 2nd. Hindsight helps.

 

[DFC]

If only we got another defenseman who's elite defensively and logs 20+mins a night also.



Trotz signed Stamkos for 8M, that should be firable. And Sergachev is awful for the money. Give JBB a raise.

Yeah, you're right, our left side seems a fair bit better, if reports on Moser can be trusted. I'm expecting McDonagh to be 80-90% of what he was when he left, but that's still good enough to be trusted to shut guys down. We're taking the gamble that McDonagh/Cernak can be close to what it once was. It's probably the best gamble available to us -- that duo doesn't get the credit it deserves for 2 cups. (Cernak, it appears, is still paying for those cups physically)

Up front it seems pretty marginal. Guentzel definitely seems better than Stamkos at 5v5, although Stammer did go on a run at the end of last year. (So either JG is better or A LOT better, depending on which was the mirage.) I guess the saving grace is we HAVE seen the PP be absolutely lethal without Stamkos. I think we're gonna need to do that again to be a lot better.

On another note, someone in another thread brought up how we (reportedly) asked Stamkos to waive a long time ago for Jack Eichel. This might go all the way back to Yzerman. We know the team has its own analytics that nobody else knows about. You have to wonder if maybe Stamkos did not score so highly on something internally. The team has been prepared to lose him many times, it seems.

 

[These Are The Days]

If we can somehow snag someone and turn them into a 2C it won't be so bad that we lost Stamkos. I'm about as keen on Cirelli being 2C as I was Sergachev being allowed to play without a babysitter

 

[Outl4w]

I think we are done unless we sign some depth players.
Forwards
Guentzal Point Kucherov
Paul Cirelli Hagel
Essymont Glendenning Sheary
Motte(if resigned) Gonglaves Chaffee
Defense
Hedman- Raddysh/Moser
McD-Cernak
Moser/Raddysh- Perbix
Extras Lilleberg
Goalies
Vasi
backup
Dream scenario is Geekie and Howard shine at prospect camp and are ready for the show forcing Sheary to be ,scratched, traded, or waived.

Guentzal-Point-Kucherov
Paul-Geekie- Hagel
Essymont Cirelli Gonglaves
Motte-(if resigned)- Gledenning -Chaffee

Extras - Sheary if not traded and and any other signings for bottom 6 to get better.
I dont think the fowards is necessarily any better or worse than the team that lost to the cup champs.

The defense should be better but hard to depend on a 35 and 34 year old defenseman to carry the defense and improve it at the same time.
We are two top 9 forwards away from being better.
We need some grit, size, toughness,and tenacity in the bottom 6. How we still have Sheary is beyond me and let stamkos Walk considering we have the cap space now.

 

[DFC]

If we can somehow snag someone and turn them into a 2C it won't be so bad that we lost Stamkos. I'm about as keen on Cirelli being 2C as I was Sergachev being allowed to play without a babysitter

Is it not odd that in the past couple of years we didn't want Stamkos playing center, like, at all? Was he really that bad down the middle? Seems weird, especially in hindsight, how we could have gone Point->Stamkos->Cirelli and yet we always leaned toward Point->Cirelli->Paul.

 

[DFC]

I think we are done unless we sign some depth players.
Forwards
Guentzal Point Kucherov
Paul Cirelli Hagel
Essymont Glendenning Sheary
Motte(if resigned) Gonglaves Chaffee
Defense
Hedman- Raddysh/Moser
McD-Cernak
Moser/Raddysh- Perbix
Extras Lilleberg
Goalies
Vasi
backup
Dream scenario is Geekie and Howard shine at prospect camp and are ready for the show forcing Sheary to be ,scratched, traded, or waived.

Guentzal-Point-Kucherov
Paul-Geekie- Hagel
Essymont Cirelli Gonglaves
Motte-(if resigned)- Gledenning -Chaffee

Extras - Sheary if not traded and and any other signings for bottom 6 to get better.
I dont think the fowards is necessarily any better or worse than the team that lost to the cup champs.

The defense should be better but hard to depend on a 35 and 34 year old defenseman to carry the defense and improve it at the same time.
We are two top 9 forwards away from being better.
We need some grit, size, toughness,and tenacity in the bottom 6. How we still have Sheary is beyond me and let stamkos Walk considering we have the cap space now.

You're not taking R/L into account as much as you need to for a Cooper team. We can say "lefties can play the right" all day long -- it doesn't happen here. I don't think a single Dmen under Jon Cooper has played more than 25% of his TB Lightning games on the wrong side. Braydon Coburn spent most of his career on the right side (as a lefty) and then he got here and Coop put him on the left. This isn't a thing we are making up. It's the main reason we just traded Sergachev.

We still have cap space. I don't see us not using it. And history has shown that JBB will be patient with RFAs, so Moser might not get done for a while.

 

[b0lthed]

Is everyone just forgetting how Stamkos’ skating has been in (further) decline for at least the last couple of years? I don’t need fancy stats to know that his 5v5 numbers and his defense dropped off last season. With his injury history and now the move to a new city/franchise, it might not work quite as well as the Barry Trotz fan club is thinking.

It’s hard to understand what the JBB haters are thinking. He pulled an absolute coup in snagging the No. 1 free agent prize this offseason out from under Carolina. Go ask a Vancouver fan if they’d rather have JBB as their GM lol … they were ready to pounce and sign Guentzel for $11M AAV

 

[Outl4w]

You're not taking R/L into account as much as you need to for a Cooper team. We can say "lefties can play the right" all day long -- it doesn't happen here. I don't think a single Dmen under Jon Cooper has played more than 25% of his TB Lightning games on the wrong side. Braydon Coburn spent most of his career on the right side (as a lefty) and then he got here and Coop put him on the left. This isn't a thing we are making up. It's the main reason we just traded Sergachev.

We still have cap space. I don't see us not using it. And history has shown that JBB will be patient with RFAs, so Moser might not get done for a while.

We have two rh defenseman cernak and perbix. Both looked awful in playoffs when it counted most. i dont know any decent rhd for cheap we can sign or trade for.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Is it not odd that in the past couple of years we didn't want Stamkos playing center, like, at all? Was he really that bad down the middle? Seems weird, especially in hindsight, how we could have gone Point->Stamkos->Cirelli and yet we always leaned toward Point->Cirelli->Paul.

Plot twist: Cooper was the real reason behind not re-signing Stamkos all along.

 

[DFC]

We have two rh defenseman cernak and perbix. Both looked awful in playoffs when it counted most. i dont know any decent rhd for cheap we can sign or trade for.

I just mean, when people are projecting line ups, if they are using lefties on the right, they aren't being realistic. We only do this, ever, when we just don't have enough bodies. This is why Andrej Sustr played like 4 years here.

 

[Outl4w]

Johnathan Kovacevic just was.given to. njd for a 4th. Jbb should have been all over that.
Hedman cernak
Mcd- Kovacevic
moser- perbix
Lilleberg Crozier extras/callups would have been much better and upgraded from last year.

I just mean, when people are projecting line ups, if they are using lefties on the right, they aren't being realistic. We only do this, ever, when we just don't have enough bodies. This is why Andrej Sustr played like 4 years here.

As I said we have two rh d and they both looked like crap.in playoffs. Who can we trade for or sign now that Johnathan Kovacevic is off the trade board.

 

[DFC]

Is everyone just forgetting how Stamkos’ skating has been in (further) decline for at least the last couple of years? I don’t need fancy stats to know that his 5v5 numbers and his defense dropped off last season. With his injury history and now the move to a new city/franchise, it might not work quite as well as the Barry Trotz fan club is thinking.

It’s hard to understand what the JBB haters are thinking. He pulled an absolute coup in snagging the No. 1 free agent prize this offseason out from under Carolina. Go ask a Vancouver fan if they’d rather have JBB as their GM lol … they were ready to pounce and sign Guentzel for $11M AAV

It's mainly based on what we don't know, but what we've seen in reports. Just HOW big of a discount was Stamkos offering? Anyone who thinks we should have given him $8m is out of their mind. Even Stamkos's biggest supporters, I would hope, realize that's too much. If Stamkos really was talking about 5? Or 4.5 to 5? As Lebrun mentioned (and I believe Friedman, more in passing)? Now suddenly it just seems like we are passing up value. He's still worth that, and will be for a couple of years. As great as Kucherov is, he's not turning just anybody into a 40 goal scorer.

I think the reality of Stamkos is he's now a middle-six scorer who can put up big PP numbers, if the PP is good enough to feed him.

 

[These Are The Days]

Is it not odd that in the past couple of years we didn't want Stamkos playing center, like, at all? Was he really that bad down the middle? Seems weird, especially in hindsight, how we could have gone Point->Stamkos->Cirelli and yet we always leaned toward Point->Cirelli->Paul.

I never found Stamkos *THAT BAD* at center as much as I found it to be a symptom of the coaching staff. No differently than our defenders (literally) always playing left hand/left side and right hand/right side. Stamkos said as much he hates having a wall to his back and he feels limited. They categorically refused to put Stamkos with anyone else but Cirelli and I blame Cirelli's lack of vision and creativity for tanking Stamkos' 5 on 5 production. I also find it symptom of changing from our "run and gun" to "We're gonna death by structure every team we play and a 2-1 win is now our official identity"

Had we landed Bertuzzi I'd have gotten over this in a week and said we made a lot of addition by subtraction

 

[DFC]

Johnathan Kovacevic just was.given to. njd for a 4th. Jbb should have been all over that.
Hedman cernak
Mcd- Kovacevic
moser- perbix
Lilleberg Crozier extras/callups would have been much better and upgraded from last year.


As I said we have two rh d and they both looked like crap.in playoffs. Who can we trade for or sign now that Johnathan Kovacevic is off the trade board.

Right. I'm just saying, even if we don't, don't expect us to play lefties on the right. Cooper won't do it. If JBB shuts down right now and goes on vacation, we are running Raddysh, Cernak, and Perbix down the right side.

 

[Outl4w]

Right. I'm just saying, even if we don't, don't expect us to play lefties on the right. Cooper won't do it. If JBB shuts down right now and goes on vacation, we are running Raddysh, Cernak, and Perbix down the right side.

Well who do we have that is right handed and plays defense besides Cernak and Perbix? I thought Raddysh played RD last year a lot with Heddie.