Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Part 4

[Outl4w]

Or he's simply not willing to lose key pieces of the future to overspend on a soon to be 35 year old player who has declined outside of the powerplay.

But he is fine with trading for a 35 year old 6.75 million defenseman when we already have Hedman and Segrachev. He was fine paying a king's ransom for a useless 4th liner in jeannot and signing deadweight like Sheary.

 

[JTBF81]

But he is fine with trading for a 35 year old 7.5 million defenseman when we already have Hedman and Segrachev. He was fine paying a king's ransom for a useless 4th liner in jeannot and signing deadweight like Sheary.

McD is 6.75 but okay. It's well known he made a mistake on the Jeannot trade by now. There's time to make moves and adjust any deal with Stamkos. When actual moves are made and/or real facts come out, then it'll be worth evaluating how JBB handled this situation.

 

[JTBF81]

The "between 4 and 5m" came from Don Meehan. Dreger reported it on television.

Source on that? I haven't heard Stamkos' agent say anything specific, just some sources say they believe that's what he is looking for. If that's true, even.better as it makes it easier for JBB to find room, provided Stamkos is part of his plan moving ahead.

 

[Stammertime91]

3M X 8 years is disrespectful as f***. You're essentially evaluating his decline as falling on a floor of Nick Paul's value. He's obviously going to decline, no shit, but to offer him 3M and not go to 5M coming off a 40 goal season is all signs for JBB to take a f***ing hike.

JBB thinks there's a 400k difference between Stamkos and Jeannot? Because he can be bought out towards the tail end. He's likely a +25 goal guy for at least three years. The "injury history" is roughly four years in the past.

This is laughable at this point. Flat out undeniably laughable. If this isn't part of negotiations from them, it's time for JBB to pack it up.

No RH shot on the PP, one less offensive weapon, all for 5M? If that's what he's asking, show me better for less. I'll wait.

 

[Sky04]

6M is a significant team discount, 4-5M is just laughably good, and JBB says no thanks I'll just tank my career here.

 

[Todd1a]

Ya

3M X 8 years is disrespectful as f***. You're essentially evaluating his decline as falling on a floor of Nick Paul's value. He's obviously going to decline, no shit, but to offer him 3M and not go to 5M coming off a 40 goal season is all signs for JBB to take a f***ing hike.

JBB thinks there's a 400k difference between Stamkos and Jeannot? Because he can be bought out towards the tail end. He's likely a +25 goal guy for at least three years. The "injury history" is roughly four years in the past.

This is laughable at this point. Flat out undeniably laughable. If this isn't part of negotiations from them, it's time for JBB to pack it up.

No RH shot on the PP, one less offensive weapon, all for 5M? If that's what he's asking, show me better for less. I'll wait.

Yep I’m done with JBB here I would not mind him being fired and leaving. Guy pays Sheary a 3 year deal and the stupid trade for jeannot and then offers Stamkos 3 million per year lol guy is terrible at signing free agents and there drafting sucks even when they have picks.

I think it’s ego he doesn’t want to trade jeannot and admit that it was a big mistake. Because if you move jeannot you can pay Stamkos 4-5 million per year for 8 years and get that deal done!

 

[DistantThunderRep]

3M X 8 years is disrespectful as f***. You're essentially evaluating his decline as falling on a floor of Nick Paul's value. He's obviously going to decline, no shit, but to offer him 3M and not go to 5M coming off a 40 goal season is all signs for JBB to take a f***ing hike.

JBB thinks there's a 400k difference between Stamkos and Jeannot? Because he can be bought out towards the tail end. He's likely a +25 goal guy for at least three years. The "injury history" is roughly four years in the past.

This is laughable at this point. Flat out undeniably laughable. If this isn't part of negotiations from them, it's time for JBB to pack it up.

No RH shot on the PP, one less offensive weapon, all for 5M? If that's what he's asking, show me better for less. I'll wait.

If you ask Todd, Duclair is the answer....

 

[Todd1a]

If you ask Todd, Duclair is the answer....

JBB will find another sheary and be way worse then duclair in free agency

 

[Stammertime91]

6M is a significant team discount, 4-5M is just laughably good, and JBB says no thanks I'll just tank my career here.

Yeah it's honestly funny we were all thinking 6-7M and other teams would offer even more.

Since when did 40 goal scorers become 3M? Pavelski wasn't the offensive threat of Stamkos and got over double that when he was older with Dallas? Like, excuse me? And we were in on Pavelski to an extent too.

Given the ask to waive for a trade, not resigning, and this figure, it just *feels* like Brisebois does not like Stamkos. You can't even say it's not because he doesn't value him, as 3M isn't even fair market. That's just an incredibly low offer to the point where it tells Stamkos f*** off, goodbye.

 

[Stammertime91]

If you ask Todd, Duclair is the answer....

I'd be okay with moving on from Stamkos if we had offered like 5-7M and another team was offering 8M and we lost out.

To offer Steven f***ing Stamkos a Nick Paul contract after 16 years with the team, off a 40 goal season (half at 5v5), is just f***ing absurd. Like, Duclair wishes. Most of these guys aren't yearly 20 goal guys EV and here we are offering Stamkos f***ing Jeannot money.

 

[Crunchrulz]

I certainly hope those of you who keep bringing up Jeannot are charging him rent for the amount of space he is taking up in your hockey minds.

Enough already. We understand that you do not like the trade or the player. Sadly, at this stage, there is nothing that can be done until he is traded or released. At that point, you will have to find another scapegoat for the overall underperformance of the team.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

If this offer is indeed true it's a trashy f***ing move by this organization. Very surprising really.

 

[Sky04]

Jeannot sucks

 

[Todd1a]

Jeannot sucks

Even a 36 year old maroon is better then Jeannot

 

[DistantThunderRep]

The Nightmare lives

Jeannot sucks

 

[DFC]

I certainly hope those of you who keep bringing up Jeannot are charging him rent for the amount of space he is taking up in your hockey minds.

Enough already. We understand that you do not like the trade or the player. Sadly, at this stage, there is nothing that can be done until he is traded or released. At that point, you will have to find another scapegoat for the overall underperformance of the team.

Which is JBB. He has had good moved and he has had bad moves. But the bad ones are kind of piling up. If he saves the day and gets a Stamkos deal done, there will be less talk of Jeannot for a while. It's 5 assets for Jeannot + the prospect of losing Stamkos (under these circumstances) that has us foaming at the mouth.

 

[Sky04]

Which is JBB. He has had good moved and he has had bad moves. But the bad ones are kind of piling up. If he saves the day and gets a Stamkos deal done, there will be less talk of Jeannot for a while. It's 5 assets for Jeannot + the prospect of losing Stamkos (under these circumstances) that has us foaming at the mouth.

If this year doesn't pan out he's going to be known as the GM who let Steven Stamkos walk over the guy who won 2 cups. The slew of bad moves is definitely adding up in recent years.

JBB at the press conference: I'm trying to build a competitive team

*You signed Connor Sheary on a 3 year contract and he was benched the entire playoffs *

Yes but:

*You traded Ryan McDonagh for Philippe Myers, extended him before he played a single game, buried him in the minors for 90% of his tenure and then traded back for Ryan McDonagh 2 years later*

Ok but:

*You spent 5 picks on Tanner Jeannot on a year where we had blueline issues while former 2X Lightning Cup winner Luke Schenn was available for 1 pick, instead he played 14 mins a night on the team that eliminated you*

Sure well:

*to follow that up, the next year in a severely worse position than the year before you gave up 2 draft picks and our best defensive prospect on 2 rentals just to lose in the 1st round*

 

[Todd1a]

If this year doesn't pan out he's going to be known as the GM who let Steven Stamkos walk over the guy who won 2 cups. The slew of bad moves is definitely adding up in recent years.

JBB at the press conference: I'm trying to build a competitive team

*You signed Connor Sheary on a 3 year contract and he was benched the entire playoffs *

Yes but:

*You traded Ryan McDonagh for Philippe Myers, extended him before he played a single game, buried him in the minors for 90% of his tenure and then traded back for Ryan McDonagh 2 years later*

Ok but:

*You spent 5 picks on Tanner Jeannot on a year where we had blueline issues while former 2X Lightning Cup winner Luke Schenn was available for 1 pick, instead he played 14 mins a night on the team that eliminated you*

Sure well:

*to follow that up, the next year in a severely worse position than the year before you gave up 2 draft picks and our best defensive prospect on 2 rentals just to lose in the 1st round*

The bad thing is i expect him to make more terrible moves and add to this

 

[Stammertime91]

I'm still wondering how this is transpiring between them. How much do you disrespect someone that structured your team friendly environment by low balling the piss out of him? People think Stamkos is a "powerplay specialist" yet he's still hitting 20 goals at ES. Add on top of that his importance to special teams, yeah, that's value. How on God's green earth did our organization led by Brisebois even consider 3M? Who the actual f*** is under contract, comparably and even in recent years, at 3M? I just don't get it. You do this to Palat, Killorn, etc and it's understandable. This to Stamkos? That's firable.

You're talking two top six replacements needed now if he doesn't come back. And with what cap space? Because you're not getting any better for 3M (or 5-6M tbf), and you still need another hole filled. Brisebois better have started there and this be part of negotiations. If not, it's time to go. We couldn't even participate in this draft because he's f***ed up so bad lately. There's little hope long term but if we are compromising the here and now of the team, well then everything is f***ing hopeless.

 

[JoVel]

I think Vinik has always given his GM's completely free hands here, but surely even he gives JBB a call after this and asks what the hell he's doing? Lowballing the guy who's been the face of the franchise to such a ridiculous degree is a baffling hockey decision, but even more business wise. A great way to get a lot of fans to turn on you...

 

[Stammertime91]

I think Vinik has always given his GM's completely free hands here, but surely even he gives JBB a call after this and asks what the hell he's doing? Lowballing the guy who's been the face of the franchise to such a ridiculous degree is a baffling hockey decision, but even more business wise. A great way to get a lot of fans to turn on you...

Agree. Pavelski was about to turn 35 when Dallas and Tampa had interest. He signed 7M X 3, which I don't remember if we ever leaked or knew what was offered by us. He came off a 38 goal season, 25 ES, and had lower goal totals the two seasons prior. I've always liked Pavelski, but in no way was he a better hockey player than Stamkos - except playoffs (which is obviously huge). Factoring that in, the two tax friendly teams and that contract being signed in 2019, you could say he'd probably be looking closer to 8M if that was today.

I don't understand in what world Brisebois would think Nick Paul production is Stamkos' value when he's still hitting 20 on the PP as well. You don't just slap anybody out there and increase their production by 200% because he's on the powerplay. Last area is leadership. Why bring back McDonagh and not resign your captain? I'm absolutely puzzled at how one step forward, three back this would be.

I'm with you, Vinik should absolutely be checking in on this. Unless this is part of his final hour negotiations with Stamkos, this is just undeniably bad for production, leadership, fans, and the chemistry in the room. You might as well scrap this coming season if we are running Cirelli with anybody in the organization or 2-3M wingers.

 

[Felonious Python]

I don't really understand the urgency in moving out moving players right this instant. Pretty much every team has inefficient contracts.

Jeannot and Sheary make a combined $4.6m. Fire JBB over this?

Let him cook and see what he makes.

 

[Stammertime91]

I don't really understand the urgency in moving out moving players right this instant. Pretty much every team has inefficient contracts.

Jeannot and Sheary make a combined $4.6m. Fire JBB over this?

Let him cook and see what he makes.

No, that's not the whole picture. If we only offered him 3M and the idea is "cap space" being limited, there are multiple players you could move to alleviate more cap. Who does JBB plan on signing with the margin from 5.33M (cap space) to 3M (Stamkos offer)? What world beater are we missing that's moving the needle in that price range?

The issue is, if he's only offering 3M and claiming limited cap space yet Sheary and/or Jeannot aren't moved to alleviate cap space, that's insane. Now you're talking a different PP, a loss of roughly 30-40 goals, a good face off guy, leadership, etc. We brought back 6.75M McDonagh to compete, yet we'd lowball Stamkos and not resign him? That's f***ing wild.

And it's not just this. He's been missing more often than not lately, this is no longer a vacuum, it's a pattern.

 

[Felonious Python]

No, that's not the whole picture. If we only offered him 3M and the idea is "cap space" being limited, there are multiple players you could move to alleviate more cap. Who does JBB plan on signing with the margin from 5.33M (cap space) to 3M (Stamkos offer)? What world beater are we missing that's moving the needle in that price range?

The issue is, if he's only offering 3M and claiming limited cap space yet Sheary and/or Jeannot aren't moved to alleviate cap space, that's insane. Now you're talking a different PP, a loss of roughly 30-40 goals, a good face off guy, leadership, etc. We brought back 6.75M McDonagh to compete, yet we'd lowball Stamkos and not resign him? That's f***ing wild.

And it's not just this. He's been missing more often than not lately, this is no longer a vacuum, it's a pattern.

I don't want to jump to conclusions on "if's". Let's see what Stamkos signs for.

Yzerman taking forever to make worthwhile trades was frustrating, but grinding players down on contracts was valorized.

 

[Outl4w]

#SeenStamkos