2023-2024 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[Stupendous Yappi]

Kevin Hayes ... is good news?

What has happened to the fan base's collective memory of competing for the top prize in the competition?

Did you enter this season expecting to be a Cup contender?

 

[Bluesfan54]

Have you seen this place with a bad team? Imagine if we were buffalo bad going for high draft picks. I imagine half of you would go emo and go buy razor blades.

A lot of posters seem to be new to hockey. I’ve been a Blues fan since the beginning, and have suffered thru some very dismal years. This ain’t nothing compared to some of those. New fans are spoiled by a long stretch of playoffs and don’t know how to deal with the inevitable bad years.

 

[Memento]

A lot of posters seem to be new to hockey. I’ve been a Blues fan since the beginning, and have suffered thru some very dismal years. This ain’t nothing compared to some of those. New fans are spoiled by a long stretch of playoffs and don’t know how to deal with the inevitable bad years.

Yep. First Blues memory was Sakic scoring two goals and Colorado winning 4-2 when I was four years old, listening on the radio.

I've been through heartbreak with Owen Nolan, Yzerman scoring from center ice, the Gretzky turnover, Keenan being an ass, Laurie buying the team and then gutting it in a temper tantrum when he couldn't get an NBA team like he really wanted, Eric Johnson being one of the most underwhelming first overall picks since Daigle, the golf cart incident, all the years of being good but not good enough after sucking for years, and finally...finally seeing the playoffs.

I was born in 1991. I can't even imagine the heartbreak and joy older fans have felt with this team.

Nobody's good forever, and it takes a lot to be bad forever. I'm fine with this year, whatever may happen with it. Either way, we still have five picks in the first three rounds, not counting potential trades.

It's going to get better. We don't have to go all "Wolves at the Door" by Senses Fail and "drown in a sea of Novocain, have thousands of needles poking at our skin, and burning on a beach in the sand that's littered with razor blades".

Sorry for the random lyrics; someone was talking emo, and it's probably the most emo song I have. They do have better, more badass songs, if you're curious: "Rum Is For Drinking, Not for Burning" is a hell of a song, if anyone's interested.

 

[ezcreepin]

A lot of posters seem to be new to hockey. I’ve been a Blues fan since the beginning, and have suffered thru some very dismal years. This ain’t nothing compared to some of those. New fans are spoiled by a long stretch of playoffs and don’t know how to deal with the inevitable bad years.

I think we've been spoiled largely because the Blues have been competitive through most of the franchise's life. We had a rough patch through the mid to late 2000s, but we've only missed the playoffs maximum of 3 years (10 years total). Whether or not the teams are bad is neither here nor there, but we've always been a playoff team. I think it's a shock to the system that we are actively trying to be bad/middling and don't have a clear trajectory at the moment how to reach the pinnacle again.

 

[Celtic Note]

I think we've been spoiled largely because the Blues have been competitive through most of the franchise's life. We had a rough patch through the mid to late 2000s, but we've only missed the playoffs maximum of 3 years (10 years total). Whether or not the teams are bad is neither here nor there, but we've always been a playoff team. I think it's a shock to the system that we are actively trying to be bad/middling and don't have a clear trajectory at the moment how to reach the pinnacle again.

Are we actively trying to be bad/middling or are we just bad/middling not by design? I feel like we wouldn’t have brought on Kap, Vrana or Hayes if we wanted to be bad on purpose (although none were to make us good…just not be so bad).

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Are we actively trying to be bad/middling or are we just bad/middling not by design? I feel like we wouldn’t have brought on Kap, Vrana or Hayes if we wanted to be bad on purpose (although none were to make us good…just not be so bad).

While we might not have brought them in to be bad on purpose, they can be looked art as being brought in just so that we aren't forcing players into the NHL early.

We don't pull them in we are now rocking Walker-Sunny-MacMac-Toropchenko-Blais-Alexandrov every night in the Bottom 6. Or we're riding Bolduc, Dean, and/or maybe even Dvorsky into the NHL a year or two early.

Then combine that the fact we only paid a 6th and a 7th for all three of those players. None of those moves were meant to make us good.

Now if Krug didn't veto the trade and we got Sanheim, then I would expect more "get better now' trades.

 

[Celtic Note]

While we might not have brought them in to be bad on purpose, they can be looked art as being brought in just so that we aren't forcing players into the NHL early.

We don't pull them in we are now rocking Walker-Sunny-MacMac-Toropchenko-Blais-Alexandrov every night in the Bottom 6. Or we're riding Bolduc, Dean, and/or maybe even Dvorsky into the NHL a year or two early.

Then combine that the fact we only paid a 6th and a 7th for all three of those players. None of those moves were meant to make us good.

Now if Krug didn't veto the trade and we got Sanheim, then I would expect more "get better now' trades.

But we could have just signed additional bottom 6 guys for bargain barrel prices towards the end of FA if we wanted to be bad. The trio we brought in could have been easily worse (even if they aren’t very good). There always also talk about competing for a playoff spot by Army. So I would say we tried to be better than we are showing and I think firing Berube shows that otherwise, why not just let the ship sink deeper?

 

[ezcreepin]

Are we actively trying to be bad/middling or are we just bad/middling not by design? I feel like we wouldn’t have brought on Kap, Vrana or Hayes if we wanted to be bad on purpose (although none were to make us good…just not be so bad).

I would say it's a combination of both. This roster is roughly the same as it was back in 2020/2021 and were "competitive", and following that we had an awful season in 2022-23 that saw us sell O'Reilly, Tarasenko, Barbashev, and Mikkola which threw us in the tank/middling category. I think once Armstrong saw that we struggled a lot last year, he probably knew that we would struggle this year. He added Vrana, Kap, and Hayes to possibly give us a boost in hopes we would be competitive, but that put us in the middling category (never actually bad and never actually contending).

I highly doubt that we are truly adding to this team come the trade deadline, though I'd be shocked if we didn't offload some contracts at that point as well, pushing us further into the bad team category with potential to be middling.

At least those are my thoughts just from the moves he's made. And he's not going to be THAT upfront about the team being bad, I think there is some intentional obfuscation that GMs do take just in terms of business. My hopes are that we go on a losing streak but remain competitive in those games so that we can gain some spots in the draft. The likely outcome is that we'll probably sit at the 9-12 range again this year though.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

Yep. First Blues memory was Sakic scoring two goals and Colorado winning 4-2 when I was four years old, listening on the radio.

I've been through heartbreak with Owen Nolan, Yzerman scoring from center ice, the Gretzky turnover, Keenan being an ass, Laurie buying the team and then gutting it in a temper tantrum when he couldn't get an NBA team like he really wanted, Eric Johnson being one of the most underwhelming first overall picks since Daigle, the golf cart incident, all the years of being good but not good enough after sucking for years, and finally...finally seeing the playoffs.

I was born in 1991. I can't even imagine the heartbreak and joy older fans have felt with this team.

Nobody's good forever, and it takes a lot to be bad forever. I'm fine with this year, whatever may happen with it. Either way, we still have five picks in the first three rounds, not counting potential trades.

It's going to get better. We don't have to go all "Wolves at the Door" by Senses Fail and "drown in a sea of Novocain, have thousands of needles poking at our skin, and burning on beach in the sand that's littered with razor blades".

Sorry for the random lyrics; someone was talking emo, and it's probably the most emo song I have. They do have better, more badass songs, if you're curious: "Rum Is For Drinking, Not for Burning" is a hell of a song, if anyone's interested.

Love me some Senses Fail. They were a favorite band of mine for years and years. Randomly bought their CD at Bestbuy on a whim cause i remember my girlfriend at the time had casually mentioned their name a few months prior. Best $9.99 gamble ive ever taken.

 

[ScratchCatFever]

Love me some Senses Fail. They were a favorite band of mine for years and years. Randomly bought their CD at Bestbuy on a whim cause i remember my girlfriend at the time had casually mentioned their name a few months prior. Best $9.99 gamble ive ever taken.

Remember Matchbook Romance?

 

[Renard]

No more reporting on positive things unless we're competing for a Cup people.

This forum is in despair.

But Kevin Hayes is something to feel good about.

 

[Majorityof1]

What is everyone's thought on Binnington this year?

I was going to make a post in the main board thread about why we'd want to keep Buchnevich. We're too good fir a rebuild, too bad to win, balh, blah. We have Thomas, kryou, Parayko, binnington...went to look up Binner's stats about how much better he is than you'd think. Pulled up his stats, looked at GSAA, was looking near the top to middle, nowhere in sight (46th of 53 with 500+ minutes). Sorted by Save percentage, looking in the .915 range, no Binner (.902, 40th out of 53).

I didn't expect his #s to be stellar because he's seen a lot of rubber, #1 of all goalies with 611 shots against. Only 2 other goalies are less than 60 shots away. But GSAA and save percentage are meant to account for that somewhat.

I think our D is doing a better job of limiting ridiculously easy goals, but we are still giving up a lot of chances. We are 5th worst in xGA/60. So that's not good. But we are giving up more goals than expected too (4th worst). xGA is a flawed stat, but you would expect a top 10 goalie to have our actual better than the expexted.

And that leads to Binnington. There are games he absolutely steals. He was fire at the start of the year, willing us to .500 hockey. But overall, his numbers, even those that account for shot volume, are bad. He is the 7th highest AAV goalie, and it's been awhile since he has sniffed putting up top 7 stats. We do overwork him, still this year, but we pay him like a workhorse.

So what are your thoughts on him? I legitimately want to know. As a person, I dislike him a lot. I want him gone. But as a player, I just don't know. I worry I'm letting my bias get to me. So I legitimately ask. Thoughts?

 

[Louie the Blue]

What is everyone's thought on Binnington this year?

I was going to make a post in the main board thread about why we'd want to keep Buchnevich. We're too good fir a rebuild, too bad to win, balh, blah. We have Thomas, kryou, Parayko, binnington...went to look up Binner's stats about how much better he is than you'd think. Pulled up his stats, looked at GSAA, was looking near the top to middle, nowhere in sight (46th of 53 with 500+ minutes). Sorted by Save percentage, looking in the .915 range, no Binner (.902, 40th out of 53).

I didn't expect his #s to be stellar because he's seen a lot of rubber, #1 of all goalies with 611 shots against. Only 2 other goalies are less than 60 shots away. But GSAA and save percentage are meant to account for that somewhat.

I think our D is doing a better job of limiting ridiculously easy goals, but we are still giving up a lot of chances. We are 5th worst in xGA/60. So that's not good. But we are giving up more goals than expected too (4th worst). xGA is a flawed stat, but you would expect a top 10 goalie to have our actual better than the expexted.

And that leads to Binnington. There are games he absolutely steals. He was fire at the start of the year, willing us to .500 hockey. But overall, his numbers, even those that account for shot volume, are bad. He is the 7th highest AAV goalie, and it's been awhile since he has sniffed putting up top 7 stats. We do overwork him, still this year, but we pay him like a workhorse.

So what are your thoughts on him? I legitimately want to know. As a person, I dislike him a lot. I want him gone. But as a player, I just don't know. I worry I'm letting my bias get to me. So I legitimately ask. Thoughts?

There’s no point in moving Binnington due to his cap hit, cap going up over time, and Hofer hopefully developing.

I should post a DJ Khaled gif with the words saying another one when he wills the Blues to a PO series win in which Faulk plays well.

 

[stlbluz]

A lot of posters seem to be new to hockey. I’ve been a Blues fan since the beginning, and have suffered thru some very dismal years. This ain’t nothing compared to some of those. New fans are spoiled by a long stretch of playoffs and don’t know how to deal with the inevitable bad years.

1983 was the worst year for me. The draft boycott coupled with the Saskatchewan scare was tough to handle.

 

[Majorityof1]

There’s no point in moving Binnington due to his cap hit, cap going up over time, and Hofer hopefully developing.

I should post a DJ Khaled gif with the words saying another one when he wills the Blues to a PO series win in which Faulk plays well.

There's no denying Binnington can win games almost on his own. But it's not about winning a playoff series, it's about winning multiple. Binnington hasn't had the consistency to will us to multiple series in awhile. He may get back to that when the D isn't horrific. That's why I ask the question.

 

[Louie the Blue]

There's no denying Binnington can win games almost on his own. But it's not about winning a playoff series, it's about winning multiple. Binnington hasn't had the consistency to will us to multiple series in awhile. He may get back to that when the D isn't horrific. That's why I ask the question.

I’m OK with his level of play. He’s overpaid relative to his performance, but it doesn’t matter until the defensive issues are resolved. He also isn’t a liability in net.

Trading Binnington would be equivalent to replacing a broken rear view mirror on a car that needs a new engine. Yeah, you need a new mirror at some point but the car isn’t running because the engine is toast. The engine in this case is the defense.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

There's no denying Binnington can win games almost on his own. But it's not about winning a playoff series, it's about winning multiple. Binnington hasn't had the consistency to will us to multiple series in awhile. He may get back to that when the D isn't horrific. That's why I ask the question.

I think on bad teams, bad defensive teams especially, goaltending stats can be misleading. Is John Gibson one of worst starting goalies in league? The last several years his numbers are really bad, but when team was good he was excellent. If he got moved to Carolina or jersey or another good team with goalie questions would he seemingly regain his form? Would Binny?

i don’t think Binny is good enough to carry bad team, but few goalies can. I think he is guy that can lift good team, but we aren’t good team. And I am fairly confident that if we had to ride hofer (or whomever we had to take back in a Binny trade), results would be really friggin ugly.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

What is everyone's thought on Binnington this year?

I was going to make a post in the main board thread about why we'd want to keep Buchnevich. We're too good fir a rebuild, too bad to win, balh, blah. We have Thomas, kryou, Parayko, binnington...went to look up Binner's stats about how much better he is than you'd think. Pulled up his stats, looked at GSAA, was looking near the top to middle, nowhere in sight (46th of 53 with 500+ minutes). Sorted by Save percentage, looking in the .915 range, no Binner (.902, 40th out of 53).

I didn't expect his #s to be stellar because he's seen a lot of rubber, #1 of all goalies with 611 shots against. Only 2 other goalies are less than 60 shots away. But GSAA and save percentage are meant to account for that somewhat.

I think our D is doing a better job of limiting ridiculously easy goals, but we are still giving up a lot of chances. We are 5th worst in xGA/60. So that's not good. But we are giving up more goals than expected too (4th worst). xGA is a flawed stat, but you would expect a top 10 goalie to have our actual better than the expexted.

And that leads to Binnington. There are games he absolutely steals. He was fire at the start of the year, willing us to .500 hockey. But overall, his numbers, even those that account for shot volume, are bad. He is the 7th highest AAV goalie, and it's been awhile since he has sniffed putting up top 7 stats. We do overwork him, still this year, but we pay him like a workhorse.

So what are your thoughts on him? I legitimately want to know. As a person, I dislike him a lot. I want him gone. But as a player, I just don't know. I worry I'm letting my bias get to me. So I legitimately ask. Thoughts?

Why do you dislike him as a person?

Binnington is what he is. He's a solid but inconsistent starter who seems to play his best when the chips are on the line. It's hard to find goalies who can elevate their game when the pressure is on.

He's not a problem if he's getting the defensive support that a goalie needs and at his best, he can steal you playoff series.

I don't give a damn about his 'antics.' In fact, I appreciate that he's one of the only players who appears to give a damn when the team is playing like garbage. It's clear he's a leader even though that can't put a letter on him.

Is he untouchable? Absolutely not. But I don't think there's a goalie in the system who is mentally strong enough to withstand what this team would put them through night in and night out. Hell, there are starters on other teams who couldn't handle that. Binnington is mentally strong enough to be able to handle that and not collapse. To me, he's pretty much perfect for what we need the next few seasons.

 

[oPlaiD]

One of my pet peeves on a lot of these forum discussion is people pointing out how often we're only in a game because of Binnington or some such argument. The reality is every NHL level goaltender is stealing games and making game saving saves regularly and if they aren't, their team is struggling like the Oilers were to open this year.

This year there were a couple games where Binnington had some of the best performances from him I've seen, but I don't think the stats Majorityof1 brought up judging the bulk of his work are wrong. He's certainly had a tough job with a high workload and our poor defense (and it's definitely poor, we feel a bit too good about it this year just because last year was such an epic disaster), so you can certainly give him some credit there, but I don't think that puts him into the conversation as one of the league's elite or anything like that. He's decent, solid, good, I'm not unhappy with him on the team.

He may be getting paid more than I'd like to tie up in goaltending without a truly elite player at the position, but he's also a player at the level where I think it's very difficult to find a real upgrade considering how fickle the position can be. So ultimately, Binnington is really not a problem to be solved at this point. There are dozens of other things to address before doing anything at goalie, I think. That could change, though, if a desperate team wants to acquire him.

 

[Majorityof1]

Why do you dislike him as a person?

Binnington is what he is. He's a solid but inconsistent starter who seems to play his best when the chips are on the line. It's hard to find goalies who can elevate their game when the pressure is on.

He's not a problem if he's getting the defensive support that a goalie needs and at his best, he can steal you playoff series.

I don't give a damn about his 'antics.' In fact, I appreciate that he's one of the only players who appears to give a damn when the team is playing like garbage. It's clear he's a leader even though that can't put a letter on him.

Is he untouchable? Absolutely not. But I don't think there's a goalie in the system who is mentally strong enough to withstand what this team would put them through night in and night out. Hell, there are starters on other teams who couldn't handle that. Binnington is mentally strong enough to be able to handle that and not collapse. To me, he's pretty much perfect for what we need the next few seasons.

Why do I dislike him? You answered the question. His antics. Swinging a stick near a players face, any player, even meaning to get close but miss, that is utterly unacceptable to me. Throwing a water bottle, childish and embarrassing to be a fan when you have players doing that. I'm not the type who likes the player that "you'd like him if he was on your team". No. Dirty is dirty, childish us childish. I'd rather lose than win with people who intentionally try to hurt other players.

I'm not advocating movng him today or this year. Or even at all. I want to because I don't like the player. But from an analytical standpoint I'm torn. I am just curious how the board feels about him in light if how bad his stats are again vs how bad our D is. I was legitimately shocked his GSAA and S% were that bad. I am especially curious how the goalies among us and the advanced stat guru's feel.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

In regards to Binnington. I will only trade him when Hofer or Z and prove they can be a everyday NHL starter or at least an NHL caliber Tandem. Binner is the safety net for those two right now. With how our defense is built and with them still being fairly young for NHL goalie standards, I'm not ready to throw them in the deep end to watch them struggle just yet.

Now, if another team decided they wanted to go all in and overpay for Binner, it could change my mind.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Maybe I’m crazy but I feel like Binnington has played better than his underlying metrics indicate. Not saying he’s been a stud, but I certainly don’t think he’s the reason we’re losing games.

 

[Majorityof1]

In regards to Binnington. I will only trade him when Hofer or Z and prove they can be a everyday NHL starter or at least an NHL caliber Tandem. Binner is the safety net for those two right now. With how our defense is built and with them still being fairly young for NHL goalie standards, I'm not ready to throw them in the deep end to watch them struggle just yet.

Now, if another team decided they wanted to go all in and overpay for Binner, it could change my mind.

Subban could be a sacrificial lamb to platoon with Hofer. It would help our tank. Then we could sign a cheaper vet for 2 years until Hofer/Z are more ready. This woukd give cap flexibility to sign a 1LD until we can move Krug. Again, not saying we should, but it's possible.

 

[wiscrev]

Subban could be a sacrificial lamb to platoon with Hofer. It would help our tank. Then we could sign a cheaper vet for 2 years until Hofer/Z are more ready. This woukd give cap flexibility to sign a 1LD until we can move Krug. Again, not saying we should, but it's possible.

And in so doing, take the confidence out of all of them if we did that JMHO.

 

[ToniJ1960]

Maybe I’m crazy but I feel like Binnington has played better than his underlying metrics indicate. Not saying he’s been a stud, but I certainly don’t think he’s the reason we’re losing games.

He started out the year doing really well, I thought the plan was to not overuse him but it didnt take long before he hadd faced more shots than any goaltender ahead of him in the rankings pretty much. When did the plan change did it have anything to do with Berube or the firing?