2023-2024 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[bleedblue1223]

And lets be honest, there is a lot of blame to be placed on a lot of different people for being in the situation we are in.

 

[ScratchCatFever]

JR doesn’t see the game particularly well to veer into opinion easily independently. Then, over the years he has burned or is in process of burning sources. I feel like he’s been flopping around a lot in recent years looking for an angle.

I’ll veer into opinion, and offer that JR has a warm friendly nice guy personna that he projects well as an initial impression, but you don’t have to dig too deep to see where he’s cowardly, insecure, and two faced. I think most people he is paid to talk to have been around him long enough to see that by now, and it makes doing his job well increasingly more difficult.

He did Kyrou dirty here at a highly emotional time, and he should have to pay a tax for that.

I remember hearing him on the radio with Rivers and Stalter about a year ago. They were making small talk about who knows what. I remember JR mentioning that if he and his wife are in bed and hear a noise in the garage that his wife is the one to go investigate. Could it have been a self deprecating jab at himself in the name of humor? Probably, but I also think he spoke the truth for once and then went on to speak on his fear of many other things. JR's the type of dude to make a sandwich for his wife's boyfriend. Hochman is a cuck as well.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Brian, you responded far better then I did. I went pretty ballistic on JR there rofl.

I also completely agree about Schenn. The fact that he said nothing last night was pretty f***ed up imo. He's the Captain of the team, we just had a coach get fired and one of our top young players booed consistently by the home crowd and he doesn't say a word? I would rip the C off his chest in front of the entire locker room if I was Army after that. Gutless. Completely gutless. Captain of the team and you left your guy on an island. Unacceptable.

 

[PocketNines]

For all the talk about quotes and context, Kyrou didn't like playing for Berube, and Berube hated the way Kyrou seemed determined to play. I think fans on a gut level get this, because Berube hockey is man hockey and Kyrou hockey is the bullshit we have been seeing from him for years now. Kyrou's game is just the opposite of "Blues Hockey," I don't know how else to put it. Fans see a heartless, skilled, underachiever in Kyrou.

So whatever the precise words, the feeling was loaded. Everyone knows that Berube is paying a price for other people and one of those people is very much Jordan Kyrou. The first Cup coach is a special thing, and Kyrou did not at all contribute to that run, and getting him out of the lineup was one of the Cup run elements.* So any type of disrespect when fans were feeling raw about it, particularly by the totally underachieving #1 biggest disaster contract on the team, was going to bring a fierce response. Basing a judgment on the fans because of the particular parsing of JR's words, or focusing on how big a hack JR is, that is getting sidetracked.

Armstrong actually alluded to this with his "middle of the hourglass" comment – he was saying now it's on him and the players. Armstrong is now fighting for his job and he is not going to wait as long to move guys. I think Kyrou got a huge wakeup call where he stands in fans' minds and he better figure out how to prove himself, because now that he has been booed, he can be booed again.

* I will never forget the game during the Cup year when I saw Kyrou's last shift of the year. It was the game before the 11 game streak began Jan 23 in Anaheim. Blues were leading LA in the second period on Monday afternoon MLK Day game at Staples. Kyrou takes a horrible neutral zone penalty and then the Blues take a double minor with him in the box. LA scored twice and after the first goal Kyrou exited the box. Sitting a few rows behind the Blues bench that day I saw his expression as he glided over to the bench. "I am in trouble, I really blew it, the coach will not forgive what I just did." He never saw the ice the rest of the season. It was his last shift.

 

[Thallis]

In almost perfect timing, Corey Sznajder just released his microstats for the current season and Kyrou is leading the Blues in basically every offensive category. It's literally just his counting stats that are not up to par, which is a problem, but basically every predictive stat says that's going to turn around at some point.

 

[BlueDream]

Schenn needs to show that deserves that C in the next couple weeks.

How the hell is the captain not taking questions last night after a home crowd just spent the entire game booing our own player? Kyrou just got raked over the coals for a poorly worded no comment attempt and Schenn decided he didn't want to talk to media last night? I don't give a damn what he and Kyrou's personal relationship is like (and I don't want to play the speculation game about it). I've played with plenty of guys that I couldn't stand personally. A good leader still has all of his teammate's back publicly.

Last night was an embarrassing display by the home crowd. Our 2 best forwards clearly had Kyrou's back based on their reaction on-ice after goal #4. Thomas made sure to repeatedly emphasize the team having each other's backs in his post-game comments.

But our captain decided not to talk to the media? Come on.

What exactly are we talking about here? The Blues are the ones that decide which players talk to the media after the game, the players aren’t the ones volunteering. I think you know this, but your comment makes it seem like Schenn was asked and just turned down the opportunity. That didn’t happen. Now I guess he still could have offered to do it regardless but in fairness to him, this thing started to blow up even more after Kyrou’s emotional interview. So we are now using partial hindsight to judge why he didn’t speak, which wasn’t even his choice to begin with.

Brian, you responded far better then I did. I went pretty ballistic on JR there rofl.

I also completely agree about Schenn. The fact that he said nothing last night was pretty f***ed up imo. He's the Captain of the team, we just had a coach get fired and one of our top young players booed consistently by the home crowd and he doesn't say a word? I would rip the C off his chest in front of the entire locker room if I was Army after that. Gutless. Completely gutless. Captain of the team and you left your guy on an island. Unacceptable.

Yeah now we are just going overboard here. Ripping the C off his jersey after 29 games as captain because of this?

Let’s be real. We have no idea what he’s doing with Kyrou behind the scenes but I am sure he is supporting him. A lot of being a captain involves things we don’t see, as much as fans want to pretend that’s not the case.

There’s not a whole lot he could say publicly to even help the situation. Certain fans are out for blood with Kyrou and won’t care what the heck Schenn says. He would be in a tough position either way. Brady Tkachuk came out earlier this season and told Senators fans to stop booing their coach and their fans threw a bitch fit over it. So yeah, it’s not easy and maybe he wants to take some time to craft a message instead of lashing out immediately.

 

[TheDizee]

Schenn is not a good captain. Not even close to being in same league as Backes as far as that is concerned.

 

[TheOrganist]

For all the talk about quotes and context, Kyrou didn't like playing for Berube, and Berube hated the way Kyrou seemed determined to play. I think fans on a gut level get this, because Berube hockey is man hockey and Kyrou hockey is the bullshit we have been seeing from him for years now. Kyrou's game is just the opposite of "Blues Hockey," I don't know how else to put it. Fans see a heartless, skilled, underachiever in Kyrou.

So whatever the precise words, the feeling was loaded. Everyone knows that Berube is paying a price for other people and one of those people is very much Jordan Kyrou. The first Cup coach is a special thing, and Kyrou did not at all contribute to that run, and getting him out of the lineup was one of the Cup run elements.* So any type of disrespect when fans were feeling raw about it, particularly by the totally underachieving #1 biggest disaster contract on the team, was going to bring a fierce response. Basing a judgment on the fans because of the particular parsing of JR's words, or focusing on how big a hack JR is, that is getting sidetracked.

Armstrong actually alluded to this with his "middle of the hourglass" comment – he was saying now it's on him and the players. Armstrong is now fighting for his job and he is not going to wait as long to move guys. I think Kyrou got a huge wakeup call where he stands in fans' minds and he better figure out how to prove himself, because now that he has been booed, he can be booed again.

* I will never forget the game during the Cup year when I saw Kyrou's last shift of the year. It was the game before the 11 game streak began Jan 23 in Anaheim. Blues were leading LA in the second period on Monday afternoon MLK Day game at Staples. Kyrou takes a horrible neutral zone penalty and then the Blues take a double minor with him in the box. LA scored twice and after the first goal Kyrou exited the box. Sitting a few rows behind the Blues bench that day I saw his expression as he glided over to the bench. "I am in trouble, I really blew it, the coach will not forgive what I just did." He never saw the ice the rest of the season. It was his last shift.

This is a great macro perspective of the current mindset of the fanbase. Dissecting the minutia of an out of context tweet by a disliked beat reporter distracts from the truth of why the vitriol of the fans was on display last night.

 

[Brian39]

What exactly are we talking about here? The Blues are the ones that decide which players talk to the media after the game, the players aren’t the ones volunteering. I think you know this, but your comment makes it seem like Schenn was asked and just turned down the opportunity. That didn’t happen. Now I guess he still could have offered to do it regardless but in fairness to him, this thing started to blow up even more after Kyrou’s emotional interview. So we are now using partial hindsight to judge why he didn’t speak, which wasn’t even his choice to begin with.

I absolutely believe that there are situations where a captain needs to step up and say that they are addressing the media. A teammate getting booed at home every time he touches the puck and when his name is announced for an assist is one of those times.

There is no partial hindsight about it. Buch and Thomas clearly recognized that Kyrou was going through it mid-game. This thing was well blown up before Kyrou addressed the media. It was the biggest story of the day yesterday and the boos were very noticeable during the game. If Schenn was oblivious to how this was impacting the locker room, that is a leadership issue.

Being the outward-facing leader is one of the requirements of wearing the C. I'm not advocating for stripping the C and there is still time for him to demonstrate quality leadership in this situation. But he hasn't so far and I need to see something from him in the next couple weeks. Saying nothing publicly last night wasn't good enough.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

 

[bleedblue1223]

Not to beat a dead horse, but Thomas probably should've been the C. Not quite identical situations, but when Backes left and they chose Petro over Steen, it made sense since Petro had more of a future in him, where Steen was nearing his decline like Schenn. If Thomas was a year or 2 older, he probably would've had it.

 

[The Electrician]

Does JR want to be persona non grata to the Blues?

Cuz, I'd imagine that this is how you become persona non grata to the Blues.

That "No Comment" tweet may turn out to have been a poor vocational decision.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Not to beat a dead horse, but Thomas probably should've been the C. Not quite identical situations, but when Backes left and they chose Petro over Steen, it made sense since Petro had more of a future in him, where Steen was nearing his decline like Schenn. If Thomas was a year or 2 older, he probably would've had it.

I have thought for a few years he was going to be the next captain. I think they didn't want to put too much on his shoulders at once since he has gotten so much more responsibility on ice. Which makes sense. But that is why I wouldn't have named a captain, because if Thomas responded like he has we could name him captain next year in that scenario. Instead we named Schenn. I love Schenn and he seems to be good guy and real leader in many ways, but he can be so emotional and so streaky as player that he isn't ideal captain.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I have thought for a few years he was going to be the next captain. I think they didn't want to put too much on his shoulders at once since he has gotten so much more responsibility on ice. Which makes sense. But that is why I wouldn't have named a captain, because if Thomas responded like he has we could name him captain next year in that scenario. Instead we named Schenn. I love Schenn and he seems to be good guy and real leader in many ways, but he can be so emotional and so streaky as player that he isn't ideal captain.

Schenn is closer to a Backes captain and Thomas is closer to a ROR/Petro captain.

 

[Celtic Note]

Depends on what version of Pronger. During his 1st season here? He wouldn't been eaten alive. After he broke out into a star, he could say whatever he wanted.

And that's the key point with Kyrou. If Kyrou was producing, he could say that, and people wouldn't really care. It's the fact that he's tied for 107th among forwards in points. 133rd in points/game among forwards playing 10+ games, and tied for 32nd highest salary and 41st highest cap hit.

It's his production that is resulting in the increased reaction to his comments. If he was producing to his talent level, to his salary level, people wouldn't have cared nearly as much. Since he's not, he's viewed as one of the main problems for why we suck.

He was pointing last year and still got ridiculed by many.

Pronger could get away with it because he was tough. There are plenty of mediocre players that become infallible legends in STL because they are tough or hardworking.

 

[bleedblue1223]

He was pointing last year and still got ridiculed by many.

Pronger could get away with it because he was tough. There are plenty of mediocre players that become infallible legends in STL because they are tough or hardworking.

There's a difference between the typical stuff that Kyrou gets, similar to what Tarasenko received, but nothing of that was like what he got last night.

No doubt being tough and/or playing with energy helps, that's why I highlighted Schwartz and Tarasenko in another post on how Thomas and Kyrou get different reactions.

 

[Celtic Note]

That's some revisionist history. Tarasenko was inconsistent on his defensive game, but he was absolutely good defensively when he was engaged. In game 7 in the Finals, he had a few good defensive plays, one of which led to a goal.

He was good defensively when he wanted to be. But you could count on two hands per season the number of games that happened.

 

[bleedblue1223]

He was good defensively when he wanted to be. But you could count on two hands per season the number of games that happened.

So, he was inconsistent, glad we agree.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Kyrou, like Tarasenko doesn't need to be a Selke defender, he doesn't need to be on the line that shuts down opponents. What he needs to be able to do is use his strengths in a way defensively to help the team. For Tarasenko, it was using his strength in the defensive end to out muscle opponents to win pucks back. For Kyrou it's his speed and agility to pick pockets.

One of the issues for Kyrou, we don't really have an ideal offensive line for him to be on, since the Thomas/Buchnevich line should be the top line that goes against other top lines. If we had a more ideal 2nd line center for him or if Schenn could handle defensive minutes, we could better shelter his weaknesses.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Not to beat a dead horse, but Thomas probably should've been the C. Not quite identical situations, but when Backes left and they chose Petro over Steen, it made sense since Petro had more of a future in him, where Steen was nearing his decline like Schenn. If Thomas was a year or 2 older, he probably would've had it.

I'd rather we have gone without a C and given it a year to see who (if anyone) stepped up and earned it. If that was Thomas, fine.

But I'll also say that I didn't like the idea of Schenn with the C. It felt very forced, very contrived, and that it's going to be a short-term thing. I'd like to see us find someone who's captain material that could end up wearing the C for a decade or more. ROR never felt like he was going to be a 5-year, 7-year captain; Schenn's not going to be that either. Pietrangelo had that potential, Backes had that potential and Pronger absolutely would have been had Bill Laurie not turned over roster management to Dick "The Imbecile" Thomas.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Lets be real, any of use with a subscription to The Athletic, didn't subscribe for Rutherford or maintain a subscription for Rutherford. He's not as bad as many thing he is, but he's also not very good either.

During his time at The Athletic, I feel he's changed because he's felt pressure to increase the amount of subscriptions he gets and clicks he gets. And because of that, quality has gone down.

I have a subscription to the Athletic, but I can’t remember the last article of his I read.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

In light of Thursday’s story, in which Blues forward Jordan Kyrou clarified his “no comment” when asked about Berube’s departure, the team’s ex-coach was asked about that relationship.

“Listen, for me personally, I don’t have an issue with it,” Berube said. “Jordan and I, when we talked, it was fine. It was never not fine. Maybe he didn’t say exactly what he wanted to say to me all the time, but it is what it is. Sometimes relationships can be rocky. They’re not always going to be great. But for me, I’m fine with everything. It is what it is.”

 

[Spektre]

The vocal fans always complaining about Kyrou not being a complete player is funny.

Hull is far and away the best (long term) Blues player and he makes Kyrou look like Bergeron.

It’s a game. Scoring goals is the name of the game. I don’t want a league of cookie cutter players.

Meh, fans get way too emotional over a game. It’s just entertainment at the end of the day.

I hope Kyrou scores 50 goals and Berube is at a game cheering for him

 

[STL fan in MN]

The vocal fans always complaining about Kyrou not being a complete player is funny.

Hull is far and away the best (long term) Blues player and he makes Kyrou look like Bergeron.

It’s a game. Scoring goals is the name of the game. I don’t want a league of cookie cutter players.

Meh, fans get way too emotional over a game. It’s just entertainment at the end of the day.

I hope Kyrou scores 50 goals and Berube is at a game cheering for him

Scoring goals is important but scoring more goals than the other team is more important. Not every player is going to be a Selke level defensive player but I think it’s fair to point out how incredibly poor Kyrou is at defense and how, even though he scores a lot of goals, he’s on the ice for a lot more goals against than most of his teammates.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Scoring goals is important but scoring more goals than the other team is more important. Not every player is going to be a Selke level defensive player but I think it’s fair to point out how incredibly poor Kyrou is at defense and how, even though he scores a lot of goals, he’s on the ice for a lot more goals against than most of his teammates.

His defense is inconsistent, but he is at times quite good defensively. Great hands and anticipation allow him to disrupt lots of plays. saw an interesting tweet tonight about tortarella that I think applies here. It basically said he doesn’t expect his top skill guys to be great defensively, but he expects them to compete all 200’. And he also expects them to actually put up points. A couple bad games aside, Kyro’s 200’ play this year has been fine, but he has had poor puck luck so he doesn’t have the points. if he can use last night as a reboot, he should start producing again and we will stop talking about his d.