Snubbed4Vezina
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COVID played a massive role in the Blues not being able to hang on. No chance that they let that many core players walk if they're not dealing with a flat salary cap.
2023-2024 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread
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- Feb 12, 2008
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Bobby Orrtuzzo
Ya know
And losing JBo, Steen, and Gunnarsson to retirement didn’t help either.
Brian39
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- Apr 24, 2014
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I might be in the minority, but I don't agree that the flat cap was what led to core players walking.
Maroon got $900k from Tampa in the summer of 2019. That was a roster decision, not a cap decision (and it was well before anyone knew a flat cap and COVID was coming).
There was a 9 month period where we could have signed an extension with Petro before COVID hit. Instead, we brought in Faulk and committed $6.5M x 7 years to him. I don't want this to lead to another re-litigation of the Petro decision, but I think that we can all agree that it wasn't the flat cap that made us unable to keep him. This was very much a should/shouldn't decision and not a can/can't decision.
We lost J-Bo to an unpredictable injury, not a cap thing.
Schwartz got $5.5M x 5 years from Seattle in 2021. A week earlier, we had acquired and signed Buch to an AAV of $5.8M. We gave slightly more money to a younger player of the same position. I think that this was very much an unwillingness to allocate that money to an aging inconsistent player than it was a casualty of the flat cap.
Is Dunn considered part of the core? If so, we lost him because we exposed him after giving Krug $6.5M x 7 years. Certainly not a flat cap thing.
Sunny played 2.5 more seasons here, but had major injury issues and wasn't living up to his contract. He was moved in a deal for a more expensive player (who was extended). I wouldn't call that a flat cap casualty.
Perron played 3 more seasons here after the Cup win and all sides agree that we offered him a fair AAV on a 1 year deal, but that the issue was term. I don't think that our concerns about term given his age would have been any different without the flat cap.
ROR, Tarasenko, and Barbie were all here until the team imploded and they were traded as rentals because the window with them had obviously closed. Bortz stuck around even longer.
Binner, Schenn, and Parayko are still here.
Bozak, Steen, and Gunnar retired as Blues.
That's more than the 'core' but I think it demonstrates how little the core was disrupted due to the flat cap. The flat cap made it harder to supplement a good veteran group and I think it did contribute to our downfall from contender status. But I don't think that it led to the core group being slowly dismantled.
I guess you forgot that he didn't want to talk contracts right? Which btw just leads to more assurance to me that he planned to walk anyway since he didn't even want to negotiate before he was almost a FA.
It was long speculated that Schwartz wanted to get closer to his family after his dad died. It was also long speculated that he would go to Seattle.
Brian39
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So which of those things was caused by the flat cap? Or do we agree that it wasn't the flat cap?
Tough day for the homers on this board when facts get brought to the table. The flat cap is their binky, they don’t know what to do without it.
I didn't claim anything about a flat cap. You're just claiming the flat cap had nothing to do with the Blues losing players so you're blaming a bunch of shit on the team and these 2 situations in particular weren't on the Blues.
Thallis
No half measures
No, they lack elite talent, especially on the defensive side of the puck.
Celtic Note
Living the dream
- Dec 22, 2006
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Hasn't really changed at all. I think we all know we just lack high end talent, I also think we are pretty lacking in forward depth in general, our middle 6 is pretty meh. The defense needs a shake up still and has for a couple years now, but really that is going to be hard to do with the current contracts we have there, will likely get easier with less time remaining and Krugs NTC going from full to limited next summer but at this point there isn't much to be done about it unless Army can work some magic.
Reality Czech
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- Apr 17, 2017
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It's pretty silly to act like things would have turned out exactly the same if the cap had gone up as expected. But who am I to argue with the infallible hindsight crew. I guess we'd be mid-dynasty if we'd have followed your plan, right?
Majorityof1
Registered User
Hindsight crew vs the strawman slayers, who will win?
On a little road trip today and was listening to 101.1 on the way out of the St. Louis area and the last hour or so they were doing a lot of Blues talk. I swear to god I lost 30 IQ points. These clowns have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Some of the things they said.
- We don't know that the Blues project Dvorsky to play C at NHL despite that he was drafted as a C, plays C in CHL and there have been zero talk of him playing anything else other than C. Their main justification for this seems to be that he scores more than he distributes so he is more likely to play wing.
- Jakob Chychrun is the solution to all our blueline problems. You know the blueline that has trouble defending? Apparently the solution is to add a offensive defenseman who has trouble defending to pair with Parayko because that worked so well with Krug.
- Blues assets aren't worth squat. Brandon Saad with another year on his already cheap contract would only be worth a late 2nd or 3rd at this TDL. Good price for a perennial 20+ goal scorer. We would have to retain half of Hayes salary, putting his AAV around 1.7mil, and then pay something significant to get someone to take him. Don't even start with Krug, absolutely un-moveable even after his NTC changes next offseason. It's almost like PLD didn't just get traded a few days ago.
- Their new obsession is Necas and get this they want to acquire him to play center for us. You know the position he doesn't play for Carolina. It's just hilarious that they downplay Dvorsky playing center in the future for us but they want to acquire a player that has played the last few years on the wing to play center.
I swear they are incapable of complex thoughts, they just latch to the hive mind and try to attach as many attractive names to the Blues as possible
- We don't know that the Blues project Dvorsky to play C at NHL despite that he was drafted as a C, plays C in CHL and there have been zero talk of him playing anything else other than C. Their main justification for this seems to be that he scores more than he distributes so he is more likely to play wing.
- Jakob Chychrun is the solution to all our blueline problems. You know the blueline that has trouble defending? Apparently the solution is to add a offensive defenseman who has trouble defending to pair with Parayko because that worked so well with Krug.
- Blues assets aren't worth squat. Brandon Saad with another year on his already cheap contract would only be worth a late 2nd or 3rd at this TDL. Good price for a perennial 20+ goal scorer. We would have to retain half of Hayes salary, putting his AAV around 1.7mil, and then pay something significant to get someone to take him. Don't even start with Krug, absolutely un-moveable even after his NTC changes next offseason. It's almost like PLD didn't just get traded a few days ago.
- Their new obsession is Necas and get this they want to acquire him to play center for us. You know the position he doesn't play for Carolina. It's just hilarious that they downplay Dvorsky playing center in the future for us but they want to acquire a player that has played the last few years on the wing to play center.
I swear they are incapable of complex thoughts, they just latch to the hive mind and try to attach as many attractive names to the Blues as possible
Lets dig into this a bit. Their top guys were Forsling and Montour, followed by guys like Nurse, Bouchard.... Do you look at any of those players and say top 30 dman in the NHL? Are any of those guys guys hall of famers? Would anyone trade Colt for Nurse? I wouldn't....
And I admit I don't watch any team outside of the Blues during the regular season, soo.
Where do you rate those guys compared to Colt?
I think we can say they have better depth - so is it depth that helped them get there.
Add onto that: Looking at reg season stats: Florida had 3 players with 26 or more goals - only 4 with 20. Top scoring dman was 39 points.... Clearly a deep defensively focused team that also road a hot goalie. Post season - top scorer had 11 in 24 games. They got time scoring.
But what elite talent can you really point too defensively
It is really an interesting look at Depth vs top end talent. But looking at the rosters, I am not sure I can point to a true #1 dman.
Drubilly
Registered User
Let me guess, it was BK & Ferrario, those guys are total moronsOn a little road trip today and was listening to 101.1 on the way out of the St. Louis area and the last hour or so they were doing a lot of Blues talk. I swear to god I lost 30 IQ points. These clowns have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Some of the things they said.
- We don't know that the Blues project Dvorsky to play C at NHL despite that he was drafted as a C, plays C in CHL and there have been zero talk of him playing anything else other than C. Their main justification for this seems to be that he scores more than he distributes so he is more likely to play wing.
- Jakob Chychrun is the solution to all our blueline problems. You know the blueline that has trouble defending? Apparently the solution is to add a offensive defenseman who has trouble defending to pair with Parayko because that worked so well with Krug.
- Blues assets aren't worth squat. Brandon Saad with another year on his already cheap contract would only be worth a late 2nd or 3rd at this TDL. Good price for a perennial 20+ goal scorer. We would have to retain half of Hayes salary, putting his AAV around 1.7mil, and then pay something significant to get someone to take him. Don't even start with Krug, absolutely un-moveable even after his NTC changes next offseason. It's almost like PLD didn't just get traded a few days ago.
- Their new obsession is Necas and get this they want to acquire him to play center for us. You know the position he doesn't play for Carolina. It's just hilarious that they downplay Dvorsky playing center in the future for us but they want to acquire a player that has played the last few years on the wing to play center.
I swear they are incapable of complex thoughts, they just latch to the hive mind and try to attach as many attractive names to the Blues as possible
They have 3 guys I would consider top pairing dmen, Forsling is elite defensively and a stud, Ekblad is also a top pairing guy, other than 1 season a couple years ago I am not sure he has the offense to be qualified as a true #1 though. Mountor had a bit of a down year offensively but put up 73 points last season and is very good offensively, although his defense isn't good enough to be a true #1 either. So maybe you are right about them not having a true #1 but they have 3 guys I would consider top pairing quality. The Blues only have 1 and that was just this past season when Parayko had his bounce back season but he didn't look that quality the couple seasons prior, so I do believe that it is a fair assessment that we need more top end talent on D.
As for Edmonton, they have always been a very top heavy offensive team, but I think Bouchard and Ekholm are both better than anyone that we have. I am still upset that Army didn't acquire Ekholm a couple years ago and instead went after Leddy, Ekholm was exactly what the Blues needed IMO.
Majorityof1
Registered User
Why is everyone ignoring Ekblad when talking about D in the cup? In a vacuum, Id' take Ekblad, Forsling, Montour or Bouchard over any D we have. Ekholm as well if it's just for one game, but he is older. It would be tough to take the more offensive guys over Parayko with our D structure, but they are better overall players than he is.
Brian39
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- Apr 24, 2014
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Yes, I was responding to a different person than you. That is why I quoted that different person and not you to start my post. Then you jumped in. Feel free to re-read my post. At no point did I allocate blame or make any claims beyond whether things were or were not caused by a flat cap.
- Feb 12, 2008
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- 9,482
I don’t think the nhl is particular strong right now with powerhouse teams. A couple key moves and the Blues could be right there. A top pairing LD to pair with Parayko, and a very good 2 way 2C would do wonders for this team, and also with more positive steps for Neighbors, Kyrou, Toro and Bolduc
Thallis
No half measures
Forsling and Bouchard are both at least a tier above Parayko. Elkholm is about as good as Parayko and he's the second best guy on the Oiler's defense. Florida also has the huge benefit of Barkov on the defensive side of the puck as well as guys like Reinhart & Loustorainen. If you look at elite players for Florida I put Barkov and Tkachuk above anyone on our roster and Forsling above everyone but Thomas. The quality of complimentary player is generally much better than ours as well.Bob was average to below these playoffs, the team in front of him did all the work for him.
PocketNines
Cutter's Way
just waiting for the schedule to be posted to see when the blues play in climate pledge arena. guessing twice and something tells me one of them is one of the first few games
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