2023-2024 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[AjaxManifesto]

Bannister signs 2-year contract to remain Blues coach | NHL.com

Went 30-19-5 after replacing Berube on Dec. 14

www.nhl.com

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Bannister did a good job with his limited opportunity this year. He’s also a trusted guy for developing young players. Maybe he’ll prove to be a legit longtime NHL coach and have a special career. But he may also just be a good extended interim guy for the next phase of this roster and replaced when they’re moving into playoff mode again.

Good for him.

 

[The Note]

Ridiculous. If they're going to do this they better embrace tanking, but they won't. They'll sign a roster to compete next year and we'll be in the same spot.

I will say as someone who is pretty skeptical the Blues will be able to successfully thread the needle on this re-whatever, I wouldn’t sleep on the chances this team finishes with a top 10 pick again in the next year or two. The Blues were really pretty bad last year at 5-on-5 and were largely bailed out by excellent goaltending. Assuming the team looks more or less the same, sans some shifting of depth pieces, if Binnington’s and/or Hofer’s play dips next year they could find themselves more in the Calgary/NJ range rather than in the worst case scenario position they’ve found themselves in this year.

But anyone who hoped they would actually try and bottom out has to let that go, they’re aiming for the middle and to sneak into the playoffs, regardless of what we may think of it.

 

[Xerloris]

The thought of Monty possibly being fired or RBA or even Carle, makes this extension very underwhelming to me. Nothing against Banister but I had hopes for something a bit more exciting.

 

[Dr Robot]

I was hoping for no real reason we would sign bruce B. I just think he’s a fun coach.

 

[stl76]

I was hoping for no real reason we would sign bruce B. I just think he’s a fun coach.

 

[Blueline2757]

On the latest 32 thoughts episode EF said blues talked to Carle and Mclellan but the most interesting tidbit is he’s been hearing Army had Bannister talk to Steen that he’s heard from a couple of different sources that Steen is being groomed for the assistant GM role. Given how we’ve been signing Swedes lately it makes sense. Sounds like Dougie has begun training his replacement..

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

On the latest 32 thoughts episode EF said blues talked to Carle and Mclellan but the most interesting tidbit is he’s been hearing Army had Bannister talk to Steen that he’s heard from a couple of different sources that Steen is being groomed for the assistant GM role. Given how we’ve been signing Swedes lately it makes sense. Sounds like Dougie has begun training his replacement..

This is great to hear. I’ve long thought steen has the potential to be great gm and just needs time and experience.

 

[STL fan in MN]

On the latest 32 thoughts episode EF said blues talked to Carle and Mclellan but the most interesting tidbit is he’s been hearing Army had Bannister talk to Steen that he’s heard from a couple of different sources that Steen is being groomed for the assistant GM role. Given how we’ve been signing Swedes lately it makes sense. Sounds like Dougie has begun training his replacement..

The word “assistant” is not mentioned.
32 Thoughts: The Podcast
Go to 35:10 mark to listen to the Blues stuff.

The quote is that someone told Elliott to keep an eye on Steen taking a larger role with the Blues and that he potentially could be groomed to be a future GM.

“potentially” and “could be” are both super non-committal words/phrases. I do think Steen has a future here and Army said himself in the press conference for the Bannister extension yesterday that Steen will be taking on a bigger role going forward but just wanted to set the record straight. I absolutely hate the game of telephone and how someone positing that “maybe potentially Steen could be groomed to be a GM one day” turns into “Steen is being groomed for the assistant GM role.”

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

The word “assistant” is not mentioned.
32 Thoughts: The Podcast
Go to 35:10 mark to listen to the Blues stuff.

The quote is that someone told Elliott to keep an eye on Steen taking a larger role with the Blues and that he potentially could be groomed to be a future GM.

“potentially” and “could be” are both super non-committal words/phrases. I do think Steen has a future here and Army said himself in the press conference for the Bannister extension yesterday that Steen will be taking on a bigger role going forward but just wanted to set the record straight. I absolutely hate the game of telephone and how someone positing that “maybe potentially Steen could be groomed to be a GM one day” turns into “Steen is being groomed for the assistant GM role.”

We can only hope. I think steen could well be great gm.

 

[Drubilly]

During an interview with ESPN 101 yesterday, Bannister did say Steen was one of three Blues upper management members he spoke with during his interview/hiring process. (Army and MacInnis being the other two)

 

[BlueDream]

Yep and JR also confirmed in an article the other day that Steen is one of the guys who interviewed Bannister.

He said Steen’s role has been quickly increasing in the org.

 

[STL fan in MN]

We can only hope. I think steen could well be great gm.

I certainly don’t mind his involvement either. Seems to be a smart dude and was known as a super dedicated and hard working player off the ice so likely would bring that same level of dedication to anything he’s passionate about.

 

[ScratchCatFever]

I have a hard time buying that Army sold Bannister on the idea of being nothing more than a place holder for a couple seasons to keep the seat warm for when the organization is ready to turn a corner and hire a better candidate. That is essentially telling a coach that the front office will do nothing to put him in a position to at least have a chance of some degree of success during that time or upgrade personnel/roster structure. Obviously, that hinges on his Army's ability to move one of either of the Krug/Faulk contracts. (hopefully the ladder) And while I don't expect us to be players in the UFA market, I don't see a scenario in which Bannister agrees to stall his career on the agreement that he's nothing more than a glorified babysitter to hold down the fort until a better option becomes available. None of this to say that I believe Bannister is the long term solution. None of us definitively know the answer to that. I just don't see a professional agreeing to being a pylon because management asked him to after he just took a major step in the advancement of his coaching career.

 

[LogosBlue]

I have a hard time buying that Army sold Bannister on the idea of being nothing more than a place holder for a couple seasons to keep the seat warm for when the organization is ready to turn a corner and hire a better candidate. That is essentially telling a coach that the front office will do nothing to put him in a position to at least have a chance of some degree of success during that time or upgrade personnel/roster structure. Obviously, that hinges on his Army's ability to move one of either of the Krug/Faulk contracts. (hopefully the ladder) And while I don't expect us to be players in the UFA market, I don't see a scenario in which Bannister agrees to stall his career on the agreement that he's nothing more than a glorified babysitter to hold down the fort until a better option becomes available. None of this to say that I believe Bannister is the long term solution. None of us definitively know the answer to that. I just don't see a professional agreeing to being a pylon because management asked him to after he just took a major step in the advancement of his coaching career.

With all due respect, I think there is a little contradiction in your assessment. DA will not ever come right out and say to Bannister, your a placeholder. Just offer him the job. And your right also in that Bannister just got a promotion to the big leagues and now they are giving him a chance to keep that promotion and run with it. He's going to choose to do that no matter what to further his career. This is a win for him. Now it's all on Bannister to show that he belongs here.

What I do think has happened is DA has told Bannister that a youth infusion is coming and that he will be the one to develop that and make it work. I guess what I'm saying is that under no circumstances does Bannister view this in a bad light. He's been given an opportunity to succeed at the highest level. It's always DA's job to create a roster for the team and coach to succeed.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

With all due respect, I think there is a little contradiction in your assessment. DA will not ever come right out and say to Bannister, your a placeholder. Just offer him the job. And your right also in that Bannister just got a promotion to the big leagues and now they are giving him a chance to keep that promotion and run with it. He's going to choose to do that no matter what to further his career. This is a win for him. Now it's all on Bannister to show that he belongs here.

What I do think has happened is DA has told Bannister that a youth infusion is coming and that he will be the one to develop that and make it work. I guess what I'm saying is that under no circumstances does Bannister view this in a bad light. He's been given an opportunity to succeed at the highest level. It's always DA's job to create a roster for the team and coach to succeed.

Bannister also has the recent history of Berube’s experience going from interim to SC winner. The front office will reward success.

I too tend to believe it will be the coach after Bannister that leads them into the next playoff contender window, but the guy will get a chance to force the team to keep him longer.

 

[ezcreepin]

I have a hard time buying that Army sold Bannister on the idea of being nothing more than a place holder for a couple seasons to keep the seat warm for when the organization is ready to turn a corner and hire a better candidate. That is essentially telling a coach that the front office will do nothing to put him in a position to at least have a chance of some degree of success during that time or upgrade personnel/roster structure. Obviously, that hinges on his Army's ability to move one of either of the Krug/Faulk contracts. (hopefully the ladder) And while I don't expect us to be players in the UFA market, I don't see a scenario in which Bannister agrees to stall his career on the agreement that he's nothing more than a glorified babysitter to hold down the fort until a better option becomes available. None of this to say that I believe Bannister is the long term solution. None of us definitively know the answer to that. I just don't see a professional agreeing to being a pylon because management asked him to after he just took a major step in the advancement of his coaching career.

From all that Army has said in press conferences and podcasts, his view is to treat people as people while remembering that it is a business. I highly doubt his verbiage was that Bannister is going to be a "placeholder". It's more likely that Army told him that he was impressed with the play of the team and his development of prospects who have now graduated. He probably said he recognizes that he (Bannister) would've likely gotten an opportunity to coach in the NHL whether or not the Blues offered him a contract, but he wanted to give him a chance to show he can coach this team into a contender. He probably also said that it's a results business, but he is going to get some leeway with the play since we are in a retool at the moment.

To characterize Bannister as "stalling his career to babysit" is disingenuous, as I think there is some mutual loyalty for both parties and also the fact that this is Bannister's first NHL coaching job in any capacity. It's not like he's been beating the shit out of every league he's coached in, but he has had success with arguably weaker teams than the competition. Also, I don't know if teams who are competing for a cup are going to necessarily hire a 1st year coach anyway, especially if there is a lot of frustration building.

 

[ScratchCatFever]

From all that Army has said in press conferences and podcasts, his view is to treat people as people while remembering that it is a business. I highly doubt his verbiage was that Bannister is going to be a "placeholder". It's more likely that Army told him that he was impressed with the play of the team and his development of prospects who have now graduated. He probably said he recognizes that he (Bannister) would've likely gotten an opportunity to coach in the NHL whether or not the Blues offered him a contract, but he wanted to give him a chance to show he can coach this team into a contender. He probably also said that it's a results business, but he is going to get some leeway with the play since we are in a retool at the moment.

To characterize Bannister as "stalling his career to babysit" is disingenuous, as I think there is some mutual loyalty for both parties and also the fact that this is Bannister's first NHL coaching job in any capacity. It's not like he's been beating the shit out of every league he's coached in, but he has had success with arguably weaker teams than the competition. Also, I don't know if teams who are competing for a cup are going to necessarily hire a 1st year coach anyway, especially if there is a lot of frustration building.

Great points by both you and @LogosBlue on how the move was received by Bannister. I generalized my post in a way that would make it seem as if he wouldn't do whatever is necessary to further his career. It was more geared toward the 'never pleased' crowd who are viewing the decision purely as a blind hand shake with the understanding that his only job is to assume the title of HC while Army does nothing on his end to give him even a remote chance at success and is merely searching for his successor in the meantime. It seems most of us view the decision with indifference with perhaps a dash of moderate optimism that he can become the guy.

 

[ezcreepin]

Great points by both you and @LogosBlue on how the move was received by Bannister. I generalized my post in a way that would make it seem as if he wouldn't do whatever is necessary to further his career. It was more geared toward the 'never pleased' crowd who are viewing the decision purely as a blind hand shake with the understanding that his only job is to assume the title of HC while Army does nothing on his end to give him even a remote chance at success and is merely searching for his successor in the meantime. It seems most of us view the decision with indifference with perhaps a dash of moderate optimism that he can become the guy.

Truthfully, I think Bannister probably thinks of his HC job as being a placeholder. He has to realize he doesn't really have the experience to force Army's hand, or any GM for that matter. He probably understands that this is potentially his only shot to prove he is a qualified head coach at the NHL level, but I could be totally wrong in that logic. I was surprised when Travis Green got another head coaching job, so there is likely a path that Bannister gets another opportunity. I think, just based on all the information available right now, the generalization can be made that Bannister knows he is a placeholder with the caveat that this is a legitimate opportunity to establish himself as a bonafide HC.

I think you are right though in that, there's no shot that Army said "Yea man you can have a crack at it, but we are searching for your replacement if/when you fail". The language is most definitely couched a bit to reflect that this is an "opportunity" rather than "You have full reign". I think largely my disagreement is that I believe Bannister thinks of this as his only shot and that he's more than ok to take this job with people and players he's familiar with on a 2-year deal rather than to scope out other offers. What we do know is that teams are using much more in-depth advanced stats and analysis to grade coaches and players, so whether or not the team exceeds expectations isn't necessarily relevant. If the numbers bear out that Bannister was effective and his players just sucked, he will be given more chances to coach.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah, he could prove himself to be a good NHL head coach, or even prove that he at least belongs on a NHL staff for the rest of his career, as opposed to going back to the minors.

 

[Majorityof1]

Why is every so sure Bannister is just a placeholder? I assume he will be given every opportunity to earn an extention. Sure, he'll have to earn it, but every young/new coach does.

As to what Army said to him, I would assume it was a conversation, and not a bullet point. But it was something along the lines of : "We are prepared to offer you a 2 year contract at $x million per year. We will reevaluate you for an extention at this date. Here are what we are hoping for out of the team over that term and the metrics by which you will be evaluated."

 

[Brian39]

I think odds are extremely slim that Bannister had the leverage of another head coaching job. I didn't hear anything about him being interviewed for any of the open positions and he has a very limited NHL resume. If he didn't get the job here, I think his options were going to be returning to the AHL as a head coach or finding an assistant/associate coach job for an NHL team.

I don't think our front office is telling him 'you are just a warm body placeholder until something better comes along.' But even if they were, taking the job would still be a significantly better career move than returning to the AHL or being an assistant.

He has a chance to bring his system into an NHL training camp with a roster that isn't a borderline AHL team. He has a goalie tandem as reliable as you can find in the NHL, a 1C, a couple good blue line pieces, and some decent wing group. There are plenty of holes in the NHL lineup, but this isn't a roster so bad winning 30 games would be a miracle. getting a full offseason/camp and (very, very likely) a full 82 games to prove that you are an NHL coach is a massive opportunity. Outside of being named interim coach, signing this contract is easily the best career opportunity he's ever had. Even if it ends terribly, his career will be better off for it. He'll be able to get a job as an NHL assistant and potentially another NHL head coaching job.

Taking this job changes his family's lives. I'd bet good money that he just got a 100% raise (or more) from his interim salary, which was very likely a massive raise from his AHL salary. No matter what happens, his next job will be more lucrative than what he was making in the AHL. This job is a massive career success for him even if he has been explicitly told that he sucks, the organization hates him, and his only expectation is to fall on the sword down the line. I'd be stunned if that is remotely how the conversation went, but even then it would be a great career move.

My expectations for Bannister aren't super high. I don't think that he is the coach that will be behind the bench when the team makes their next deep playoff run. He could very well prove me wrong and I hope he does. But even if he doesn't, he could still usher this organization through a large step forward and set himself up for a nice long NHL coaching career.

 

[ezcreepin]

Why is every so sure Bannister is just a placeholder? I assume he will be given every opportunity to earn an extention. Sure, he'll have to earn it, but every young/new coach does.

Placeholder might be being used too loosely here, but my definition for it in this context is that despite the team being in a retool and will likely struggle a bit to make the postseason, if Bannister can't make improvements in specific areas of the game, then they aren't going to wait around and let him play out the contract. Or maybe the way to describe it is that the organization may have higher expectations for him as opposed to someone like Hitchcock, Cooper, Sullivan, Cassidy, etc since they've shown they can coach a team to be competitive. They might get more rope to have things go poorly than Bannister would. From the way Army is describing or envisioning how he wants these next few seasons to go, it doesn't feel to me that he has any desire to let a coach meander or take their time to develop players in the way that someone like St. Louis is doing for the Canadiens. Hopefully that makes sense.

I don't think our front office is telling him 'you are just a warm body placeholder until something better comes along.'

I think they'd be stupid to even insinuate something like that, but my guess is that both Bannister and the Blues are in a position to "go with the flow" right now while Army looks to improve the team. Once Army thinks they have a competitive enough roster, I fully expect him to make a coaching decision quick if they are middle of the road.

 

[Majorityof1]

Placeholder might be being used too loosely here, but my definition for it in this context is that despite the team being in a retool and will likely struggle a bit to make the postseason, if Bannister can't make improvements in specific areas of the game, then they aren't going to wait around and let him play out the contract. Or maybe the way to describe it is that the organization may have higher expectations for him as opposed to someone like Hitchcock, Cooper, Sullivan, Cassidy, etc since they've shown they can coach a team to be competitive. They might get more rope to have things go poorly than Bannister would. From the way Army is describing or envisioning how he wants these next few seasons to go, it doesn't feel to me that he has any desire to let a coach meander or take their time to develop players in the way that someone like St. Louis is doing for the Canadiens. Hopefully that makes sense.


I think they'd be stupid to even insinuate something like that, but my guess is that both Bannister and the Blues are in a position to "go with the flow" right now while Army looks to improve the team. Once Army thinks they have a competitive enough roster, I fully expect him to make a coaching decision quick if they are middle of the road.

I don't think placeholder fits that at all. That is just a young, unproven coach having less leash than an established coach, aka reality. Placeholder implies that nothing Bannister can do will earn the job. He is there until a certain predetermined time when his tenure is up and they will definitely replace him.

I think people around here are sleeping on Bannister's potential as well. He has been really successful in a short time everywhere he has gone. I think he got a lot out of the teams he had in the OHL and AHL. There were definitely still issues with the Blues under him, but he didn't get a lot of ramp to gameplan and implement changes. I think he will surprise a lot of people who pay attention. Our team still sucks, so we may not win a bunch. I guarantee people will give him crap when we miss the playoffs because our D still sucks. But I think he will be a positive influence on the team as a coach, especially in terms of growing our younger players.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Whose decision was it to have Dvorsky play in Sweden to start the season?

Was it Steen’s? I’m sure he had some input, but I’d like to know the weight of Steen’s input.