Blue Jays GDT: 2022 v10 | Next: Tue, Sept 13 | vs TB |*DOUBLEHEADER| 1pm ET/10am PT & 7pm ET/4pm PT | Springs vs Manoah & TBA vs TBA

[canucksfan]

 

[BertCorbeau]

At least Baltimore burns their closer for tomorrow.

 

[tmlms13]

Meaningless run in 9th so the final score is 6-9 just so all of us immature idiots can have a laugh

 

[Wallet Inspector]

"Shit on them" is a bit of hyperbole. In a close playoff race they can't be blowing 3-0 leads.

 

[canucksfan]

"Shit on them" is a bit of hyperbole. In a close playoff race they can't be blowing 3-0 leads.

The Jays aren't going to be winning every game. Every team will at some point blow a 3-0 lead in the season.

 

[DFF]

Tampa and Seattle ain’t losing neither

 

[Maestro84]

Tampa and Seattle ain’t losing neither

With the way things are looking now, i wouldn't mind the Jays getting the 3rd WC spot. They'll play the AL Central winner (Indians, White Sox or Twins), all of whom wouldn't be in a playoff spot in any other division, and if they win, they'll play the slumping Yanks rather than the red hot stros in the ALDS.

 

[canucksfan]

Tampa and Seattle ain’t losing neither

Seattle lost yesterday. The biggest concern for the Jays is the O's. If they win tomorrow they win the series 3-1 which is excellent. Expecting a 4 game sweep is ridiculous.

 

[Cloned]

With better managing this game is 6-5 Jays or tied right now.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Expectations were lower today with White on the mound. It was still definitely winnable after they scored 5, but couldn't get that big inning. And then the bullpen puked everywhere

Manoah tomorrow at least. Kremer has been solid lately, but he is due for a blow-up game.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Frustrating game. White should not be starting, but it seems like we have no choice. Vladdy and Teoscar were awful tonight. Speaking of awful, how about that home plate umpire?

Monoah on the mound tomorrow is good news. Let‘s take 3 of 4 from Baltimore.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[Blitzkrug]

Worst case scenario; Baltimore wins again and they split, basically nothing changes in the standings

Best case scenario: Manoah shuts the door and the Jays take 3 out of 4 and realllly put the pressure on Baltimore.

I wasn't expecting them to sweep anyways.

 

[red devil]

 

[DFF]

Seattle lost yesterday. The biggest concern for the Jays is the O's. If they win tomorrow they win the series 3-1 which is excellent. Expecting a 4 game sweep is ridiculous.

I am not expecting sweep. Just that the Jays have to win most of their games because their rivals are not losing

 

[kb]

Yeah, although in fairness, De Jesus seems like a decent prospect.

Thinking about it some more, but is he that good that the Jays can afford to dump someone throwing 100 with control to add to the glut of middling middle infielders, arguably the deepest part of the organization (along with C)?

It seems like they have an organizational philosophy now to trip over themselves in haste to immediately get rid of anyone who hits 100 (Baker, Frasso, etc.).

The Pearson effect? Just odd to me.

 

[canucksfan]

I didn't like it at the Stripling trade at the time and he struggled at times initially with the Jays. Williams looked like a good prospect but he has done very poorly with the Dodgers.

There's a lot of time with White and Frasso has struggled at AA but small sample size so far. AA is more of his age group so will be interesting to see how he does.

 

[ER89]

listen for all our BP problems, jays would still not take back baker... that should tell him something.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I didn't like it at the Stripling trade at the time and he struggled at times initially with the Jays. Williams looked like a good prospect but he has done very poorly with the Dodgers.

There's a lot of time with White and Frasso has struggled at AA but small sample size so far. AA is more of his age group so will be interesting to see how he does.

Yea, he did. Remember his outing in Dunedin last year against Boston? Yeesh. I agree with you. WE should definitely let Pete Walker work with him some more.

 

[Kurtz]

Thinking about it some more, but is he that good that the Jays can afford to dump someone throwing 100 with control to add to the glut of middling middle infielders, arguably the deepest part of the organization (along with C)?

It seems like they have an organizational philosophy now to trip over themselves in haste to immediately get rid of anyone who hits 100 (Baker, Frasso, etc.).

The Pearson effect? Just odd to me.

That's an interesting point.

I go back to the book Moneyball, which a lot of folks mistake for preaching the importance of OBP and the folly of giving away outs via bunting and base stealing...but it was really all about exploiting market inefficiencies, zigging where everyone else is zagging.

So it's conceivable that while all the clubs are focused on getting fireballers for their pens, a smart management group can exploit it by grabbing soft-tossers who just get results.

However, that's giving our management group an awful lot of benefit of doubt when you look across the league and you do see the smart managed clubs stocking up on the fireballers and getting good results.

 

[Kurtz]

I still can't get over Schneider pulling a Mr. Burns yesterday (pinch-hitting Homer for Strawberry) when he lifted Bass after 7 pitches to put in Kikuchi in a 1-run game because there were lefties coming up.

 

[Eyedea]

Thinking about it some more, but is he that good that the Jays can afford to dump someone throwing 100 with control to add to the glut of middling middle infielders, arguably the deepest part of the organization (along with C)?

It seems like they have an organizational philosophy now to trip over themselves in haste to immediately get rid of anyone who hits 100 (Baker, Frasso, etc.).

The Pearson effect? Just odd to me.

Frasso got results in the low minors but he was shutdown after less than 50 innings and a less than respectable start to his AA campaign. 100? Control? All of that is relative if he can't last multiple innings or a SP/RP workload, or actually command his pitches. It's easy to blow by batters that are just starting out their pro careers. Now let's see him pitch instead of throw. I'm high on the guy but he's still very much a lottery arm.

As for White, he throws 94 as an SP and has gotten results at the major league level. His SP results have been less than impressive to date but he's been good as a multi inning reliever. He's even hit 98 as a reliever, so we can't necessarily complain about a lack of velocity with him. Maybe they can continue to go the Rays route and throw out an opener.

 

[Discoverer]

That's an interesting point.

I go back to the book Moneyball, which a lot of folks mistake for preaching the importance of OBP and the folly of giving away outs via bunting and base stealing...but it was really all about exploiting market inefficiencies, zigging where everyone else is zagging.

So it's conceivable that while all the clubs are focused on getting fireballers for their pens, a smart management group can exploit it by grabbing soft-tossers who just get results.

However, that's giving our management group an awful lot of benefit of doubt when you look across the league and you do see the smart managed clubs stocking up on the fireballers and getting good results.

The Yankees have the hardest throwing pen at 95.6 mph average fastball velocity. There are four other teams who average over 95 - "smart managed clubs" like Boston, Texas, KC, and Philly.

The Jays bullpen ERA is now in the top half on the season (13th at 3.71) and has been one of the best in the league since the deadline additions arrived (6th at 3.14). It's a really good pen despite the lack of triple-digit velocity.

 

[kb]

That's an interesting point.

I go back to the book Moneyball, which a lot of folks mistake for preaching the importance of OBP and the folly of giving away outs via bunting and base stealing...but it was really all about exploiting market inefficiencies, zigging where everyone else is zagging.

So it's conceivable that while all the clubs are focused on getting fireballers for their pens, a smart management group can exploit it by grabbing soft-tossers who just get results.

However, that's giving our management group an awful lot of benefit of doubt when you look across the league and you do see the smart managed clubs stocking up on the fireballers and getting good results.

Very well put.

 

[Kurtz]

The Yankees have the hardest throwing pen at 95.6 mph average fastball velocity. There are four other teams who average over 95 - "smart managed clubs" like Boston, Texas, KC, and Philly.

The Jays bullpen ERA is now in the top half on the season (13th at 3.71) and has been one of the best in the league since the deadline additions arrived (6th at 3.14). It's a really good pen despite the lack of triple-digit velocity.

ERA is not a good measure for a bullpen as runs allowed are often counted towards the starter being relieved.

Our pen is 21st in WHIP. 22nd in FIP. 16th in xFIP. 18th in fWar.

It is impossible to call our pen a really good pen. At best, we're close to average thanks to the addition of Bass.


As an interesting aside...10 of the top 11 teams in bullpen xFIP are currently holding down a playoff spot, with Baltimore as the lone exception. Meanwhile, none of the bottom 10 bullpen xFIP teams are in playoff contention.