Prospect Info: 2022 Post-Deadline Devils-Centric Mock Draft 2.0 (thru NJ 2nd round)

[Oneiro]

Generally tend to agree with the more empirical minded people on the board but the culture thing is not bullshit. Do I think it's the main thing? No, of course not. But it's one way of putting luck on your side.

Culture is often about maximizing the mediocre assets. You do need objectively great talent to sustain / justify culture though - otherwise, you're living on borrowed time. I will say that careers can change simply because you have a stall next to the right person or you're privvy to what world class guys think, do and say on a daily basis. I kind of feel sorry for people who think culture is BS because they haven't experienced first hand how intensity and attention to detail spread through a group - it's pretty amazing sometimes.

I look at a Guentzel - a guy who is still going to be a good player after Crosby is gone - and I don't think he reaches the same heights in a different room.

 

[My3Sons]

And if players decide to win, even if their opponent has more skill/better team than them, they often win? Sure, that might happen once in a while, and mindset is important, but good, skilful teams will usually win against lesser teams, regardless of culture.

I don’t disagree with your opinion on mindset/culture, it plays a minor part though, in my opinion.

I think it depends upon context. Look at the NFL. Teams go from worst to first there. Teams that believe in themselves can overcome significant injuries. Look at the New Orleans Saints. They had a long stretch of historically bad defenses. They had years with terrible losses to injury. Nonetheless, because of a strong belief they could win if they executed they generally did. As bad as it may have been their record was never worse than 7-9. You often hear about football players making "business decisions" when they have to dive on a loose ball (or not in the case of Cam Newton). The impact of commitment is less in hockey but I think you do see it. How many games have we bemoaned the players being soft and passive? That's sort of an offshoot of this concept. Look at Hischier's effort this season. It's no surprise that he's been much more effective as his effort has ramped up. I'd say the same is true for Bratt. Jack is the only player I think I've seen improve just by force of talent without having to do anything other than gain experience. I'm not saying we need to go back to 1955 and have the guys overdo it with a Torts style coach but there is something to be said for being hard to play against.

 

[Hisch13r]

I remember when the Caps were a “toxic” room that would never win and forever be chokers. We don’t lose because of our “culture” and going on a heater to end the season would do nothing to change the “culture”. Sens went on a heater to end last year.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Generally tend to agree with the more empirical minded people on the board but the culture thing is not bullshit. Do I think it's the main thing? No, of course not. But it's one way of putting luck on your side.

Culture is often about maximizing the mediocre assets. You do need objectively great talent to sustain / justify culture though - otherwise, you're living on borrowed time. I will say that careers can change simply because you have a stall next to the right person or you're privvy to what world class guys think, do and say on a daily basis. I kind of feel sorry for people who think culture is BS because they haven't experienced first hand how intensity and attention to detail spread through a group - it's pretty amazing sometimes.

I look at a Guentzel - a guy who is still going to be a good player after Crosby is gone - and I don't think he reaches the same heights in a different room.

I do believe in culture, but when we're dealing with generally high-character athletes, it can change for the better very quickly. With low-character athletes, it's the opposite.

For instance, everything is pretty rosy in Carolina right now, sure -- they're winning. But if they go down 2-0 in a series to Florida, we'll see whether or not they regret acquiring locker-room cancers like DeAngelo and Domi. You might recall DeAngelo in the 3-game sweep at the hands of the Hurricanes when he was on the Rangers -- the kid absolutely quit and it was visible on the ice every shift. I think there were 6 goals in that series which were entirely blamable on him alone.

Florida would represent the opposite scenario. Since Tom Rowe wrecked that team back in 2016-17, we can say they've been a bottom feeder with a "losing culture". But all it took was for the rebuild to take effect and the talent to return, then they surrounded the talent with a great group of role players and hard-hitting defensive-defensemen and now they may be the class of the league. The "losing culture" seems to be gone, in a snap.

But then, there is also the cautionary tale of Toronto. They clearly have a "winning culture" as a perennial playoff team, but is anyone sane betting their life savings on them to reach the second round of the playoffs? They've been an automatic first-round exit for years, and despite Auston Matthews' super-human MVP-type season and years of high finishes in the standings, it would be a stretch to say they have a true "winning culture".

So, I think we need to take "culture" with a grain of salt, but not dismiss it entirely. If the Devils get a goaltender and effective 3rd D pairing and 3rd line next year, they'll be a contender and we can say they have a burgeoning "winning culture". But if they don't address these three crucial problems, I don't think culture will be at fault of the Devils are on the outside looking in again come post-season.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I remember when the Caps were a “toxic” room that would never win and forever be chokers. We don’t lose because of our “culture” and going on a heater to end the season would do nothing to change the “culture”. Sens went on a heater to end last year.

I get the argument, but Caps never had a "toxic" culture unless you asked Ovechkin-haters like Milbury and Don Cherry. Also, every team goes on hot/cold streaks regardless of "culture", so I'm not sure the Sens are a great example, especially since they're pretty bad again this year.

The Devils culture will go as far as Hughes/Hischier/Bratt/Mercer/Luke Hughes/Holtz/Gritsyuk take it over the next decade, so I certainly agree with you in that sense.

 

[Buck Dancer]

I get the argument, but Caps never had a "toxic" culture unless you asked Ovechkin-haters like Milbury and Don Cherry. Also, every team goes on hot/cold streaks regardless of "culture", so I'm not sure the Sens are a great example, especially since they're pretty bad again this year.

The Devils culture will go as far as Hughes/Hischier/Bratt/Mercer/Luke Hughes/Holtz/Gritsyuk take it over the next decade, so I certainly agree with you in that sense.

As good as those kids are and the culture aspect of it all, I'd love for us to sign a key veteran that's been through the bumps and bruises of what playoff hockey is all about. Someone that can rally the troops when shit hits the fan just like in the Florida game.

I don't know who would fit that bill but having someone like that would do our roster alot of good IMO, knowing we're the youngest roster in the league.

 

[Guttersniped]

I remember when the Caps were a “toxic” room that would never win and forever be chokers. We don’t lose because of our “culture” and going on a heater to end the season would do nothing to change the “culture”. Sens went on a heater to end last year.

People being stupid about the Caps and them not winning the Cup is different then much more complex criticisms about teams such as the Oilers in the past. (I’m talking more pre-McDavid.)

I can’t help it if people are dumb about “teams not getting it done” when winning the Cup is f***ing hard and only one team gets to do it each year. (The 2001 Devils team was the greatest Devils team ever, even though it lost to Colorado.)

The Oilers stuff includes comments from players who played there, like the team’s former Captain Andrew Ference. That team’s culture problem is entwined with it’s terrible management problem and it’s bad GM problem though. So there’s that.

I don’t see a team culture problem here now. We lacked talent until recently, Lou didn’t rebuild and Shero was slow with it, and now we’re really young with team building issues.

The way you build team culture with a baby team is you don’t let the players run the team and you’re careful about additions. Anyone who says “I don’t care about the a player’s character or whatever, it’s just the talent”, is wrong. You can’t add bad locker-room guys here and leadership is very real.

Did you not experience mentors in life? It’s a thing. And this is a group activity with a bunch of young men, the vibe can go a lot of directions psychologically.

Nico just exudes wholesome leadership and is such a gamer, it was mystifying to me that people were down on him wearing my the C. (Well, not that mystifying, lol, but damn, they were so wrong and so aggressive about being wrong.)

 

[StevenToddIves]

Games which matter to the Devils lottery chances tonight:

DET v WPG: I'm no longer including Detroit as a threat, as Hughes' injury likely puts them out of reach for us with a 9-point edge.

SEA v STL: I don't give the Kraken too much of a chance here, but hope they can squeeze out a point. The Devils are just 4 points up on Seattle, and the Kraken have a game in hand.

That's it tonight, folks. Tomorrow there's a potentially huge lottery match-up of the Devils v the Canadiens, as well as games for Ottawa, Seattle, Chicago, Columbus, Philly and Buffalo.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I get the argument, but Caps never had a "toxic" culture unless you asked Ovechkin-haters like Milbury and Don Cherry. Also, every team goes on hot/cold streaks regardless of "culture", so I'm not sure the Sens are a great example, especially since they're pretty bad again this year.

The Devils culture will go as far as Hughes/Hischier/Bratt/Mercer/Luke Hughes/Holtz/Gritsyuk take it over the next decade, so I certainly agree with you in that sense.

People thought they were better off with a guy like Alex Semin once he left for Carolina and they proceeded to be equally as bad. I think the Devils will be fine, I don't think they have a culture issue but more so their organization was so barren from the Lou days that it was always going to take a tremendous amount of time to get this team back to the forefront of contending for cups.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Yes, but that’s my point. That can be the difference between a team taking the next step and a team stuck in purgatory.

They don’t expect to lose though and they definitely won’t come in expecting that. Pretty much every fan group, player group, and management and coaching group comes into the season more so optimistic and ready to start fresh. They aren’t gonna come in expecting to lose. Especially if they figure out the goaltending and come back healthier with a fully healthy Jack Hughes. Even if they finish this season terribly they will come into next season feeling good and it will come largely down to how good of a team they actually are. I think these final 12 games have very little to no effect on how this team will turn out in the long run outside of maybe certain players continuing to produce and have confidence in that.

If we can get a player like Slafkovsky in the draft who IMO could be an elite top line power forward that can do everything then that could be huge to the organization over the long run.

 

[Billdo]

I don't think they have a culture issue but more so their organization was so barren from the Lou days that it was always going to take a tremendous amount of time to get this team back to the forefront of contending for cups.

While I agree with the barren part, there needs to be visible TEAM progression. Nico has been good, Hughes has been great at times, Bratt as well, but as a team they haven't showed any progress standingswise. Sure they've improved, individually, but I think people are growing tired of looking at silver linings and minimal if any team improvement. I wouldn't say Im concerned but I didn't think we'd be this bad for this long. We are in the Buffalo and AZ tier at this point and that's horrifying tbh.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

While I agree with the barren part, there needs to be visible TEAM progression. Nico has been good, Hughes has been great at times, Bratt as well, but as a team they haven't showed any progress standingswise. Sure they've improved, individually, but I think people are growing tired of looking at silver linings and minimal if any team improvement. I wouldn't say Im concerned but I didn't think we'd be this bad for this long. We are in the Buffalo and AZ tier at this point and that's horrifying tbh.

While I can understand that, I'd be more horrified if those guys weren't playing as well as they were. The core is clearly here, it's just finding the surrounding pieces around them they need to be improve. Goaltending is the ultimate equalizer in this sport, we clearly see it from our cross town rivals with how massive of a piece it can be to a team's success.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Tuch is from Buffalo and wants to be there. NJ really only has room for one more top six wing if you presume that Bratt, Sharangovich, and Mercer occupy three of those four slots. My guess is they hope that Holtz will take that last spot.

I wouldn’t presume that over the long run though. I like Sharangovich and think he’s good enough to be in a top 6 but I’m not sure he’s good enough or a good enough fit on Jack Hughes wing to be the main guy there long term. He doesn’t finish a lot of the chances Hughes creates and when Jack isn’t going someone else needs to be able to pull more of the weight on a shift by shift basis and really help Jack out.
Mercer could still end up at center at some point.
And I’m not sold on Holtz until I see him doing it in the NHL. I have a little bit of concern with his skating and how well he could keep up with the pace or whether he would be able to keep up with or play with high speed/skill players like Hughes and Bratt.

I’m really hoping we get Slafkovsky because I think he can be a huge final piece to our top 6 and he’s exactly the kind of player we don’t have currently. A big, smart, skilled, power forward, who can make plays but also hit and win battles down low and along the boards.
And assuming he turns out we would then have 2 really good wingers that I think are good fits with both of our top Centers. And then see where the others fall and if someone like Mercer ends up at 3C or Sharangovich ends up on the 3rd line then that is a luxury and something that is gonna happen on a hopefully contending team. It could shake out in so many different ways but imagine something like this in 2-3 years when the team is finally good. This forward group would probably be top 5 in the league.

Slafkovsky Hughes Mercer
Bratt Hischier Holtz
Sharangovich Boqvist Gritsuk/Thompson
Wood McLeod Bastian

Or maybe Mercer would be at 3C and we’d have Sharangovich on the Hughes line. Or maybe Holtz doesn’t turn out and they’re both top 6 wingers. Could go so many ways and a lot will obviously change from now to then. I just love Slafkovsky as a prospect though and think he could be an elite first line winger and exactly the type of player we need in that forward group.

 

[StevenToddIves]

While I agree with the barren part, there needs to be visible TEAM progression. Nico has been good, Hughes has been great at times, Bratt as well, but as a team they haven't showed any progress standingswise. Sure they've improved, individually, but I think people are growing tired of looking at silver linings and minimal if any team improvement. I wouldn't say Im concerned but I didn't think we'd be this bad for this long. We are in the Buffalo and AZ tier at this point and that's horrifying tbh.

I can see Buffalo, but not Arizona. Their talent core of Keller/Chychrun/Guenther is probably the most anemic in th entire NHL, despite years and years of poor finishes and high picks. I wouldn't trade Hughes for all three of those guys.

Buffalo is finally looking up, though. I like the core of Cozens/Krebs/Quinn at F and Power/Dahlin on D with other nice pieces like Tuch, Peterka, Levi and Rosen. There's certainly a lot to work with there, and they'll be getting another top 10 pick this year plus two more late first-rounders to add to the group.

I'd rank Devils tops of the three. Hughes/Hischier/Bratt/Mercer up front with Holtz/Gritsyuk on the way and Sharangovich as another very good piece. The D is a bit more murky after Hamilton's disastrous end to the year, but Luke Hughes/Siegenthaler/Mukhamadullin and nice prospect depth behind them is encouraging. Devils have a good future, and maybe will be good next year if they can address the 3 glaring problems of Goaltending/3rd line/3rd D pair.

 

[Oneiro]

Being bad for 6-7 years is nothing.

I still think the fanbase (especially the older portion) is totally spoiled and clinging to an outlier situation that happened under Lou, where he had complete authorship top to bottom in an era suited to that kind of vision. Those Lou / Bill Walsh scenarios are rare and would be even more complicated with the information feedback loop going on today. (And before people bring up the Isles, they haven't won a damn thing.)

Why should you expect a decade of bad decisions to turn around in half the time? The team drafted almost no one who would be a veteran now and you have young guys learning on the fly. Grow a stronger stomach, it could be so much worse. Look at VAN or PHI.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Being bad for 6-7 years is nothing.

I still think the fanbase (especially the older portion) is totally spoiled and clinging to an outlier situation that happened under Lou, where he had complete authorship top to bottom in an era suited to that kind of vision. Those Lou / Bill Walsh scenarios are rare and would be even more complicated with the information feedback loop going on today. (And before people bring up the Isles, they haven't won a damn thing.)

Why should you expect a decade of bad decisions to turn around in half the time? The team drafted almost no one who would be a veteran now and you have young guys learning on the fly. Grow a stronger stomach, it could be so much worse. Look at VAN or PHI.

Yeah I don't think people get that Lou was actively trying to win from 2012-til Shero got here. Our rebuild didn't start until Hynes got here and even then its been only been 6-7 years.

 

[Guttersniped]

Being bad for 6-7 years is nothing.

I still think the fanbase (especially the older portion) is totally spoiled and clinging to an outlier situation that happened under Lou, where he had complete authorship top to bottom in an era suited to that kind of vision. Those Lou / Bill Walsh scenarios are rare and would be even more complicated with the information feedback loop going on today. (And before people bring up the Isles, they haven't won a damn thing.)

Why should you expect a decade of bad decisions to turn around in half the time? The team drafted almost no one who would be a veteran now and you have young guys learning on the fly. Grow a stronger stomach, it could be so much worse. Look at VAN or PHI.

Yeah, and how many years you’ve been losing doesn’t matter when it comes to be good again. Time is a flat circle.

What assets you got out of losing matters and if you didn’t get any or they busted or you wasted them/they aged out and you don’t have them anymore then you got nothing from it.

“We’ve been rebuilding for X years” is a meaningless phrase, particularly the X part. Only the players, prospects and picks you have right now matter.

 

[Dallas1229]

Being bad for 6-7 years is nothing.

I still think the fanbase (especially the older portion) is totally spoiled and clinging to an outlier situation that happened under Lou, where he had complete authorship top to bottom in an era suited to that kind of vision. Those Lou / Bill Walsh scenarios are rare and would be even more complicated with the information feedback loop going on today. (And before people bring up the Isles, they haven't won a damn thing.)

Why should you expect a decade of bad decisions to turn around in half the time? The team drafted almost no one who would be a veteran now and you have young guys learning on the fly. Grow a stronger stomach, it could be so much worse. Look at VAN or PHI.

Its crazy to me how good a team like Washington has been for like 14-15 years and they have exactly one cup, and one cup final appearance. Or an organization like the leafs who legit haven't won a first round, and haven won a cuz since the 60s. Or a team like the rangers who has every notable free agent go there, and has 1 cup since WW2. Then you have teams like Panthers, Arizona, Nashville, San Jose, Canucks, and Jets who have never had a Stanley cup, and just wander around aimlessly for years going from partial rebuild to completely imploding. Seeing fans throw temper tantrums because we literally started a rebuild with no pick, no prospects, and barely any assets to trade is enough for me to throw their opinion out. I'm excited for our future, and have a good feeling about our current core. Just needs some tweaking and then we magically forget how long we have been bad. Just like they did with Tampa, Colorado, Carolina, and now the Panthers.

 

[Guadana]

Its crazy to me how good a team like Washington has been for like 14-15 years and they have exactly one cup, and one cup final appearance. Or an organization like the leafs who legit haven't won a first round, and haven won a cuz since the 60s. Or a team like the rangers who has every notable free agent go there, and has 1 cup since WW2. Then you have teams like Panthers, Arizona, Nashville, San Jose, Canucks, and Jets who have never had a Stanley cup, and just wander around aimlessly for years going from partial rebuild to completely imploding. Seeing fans throw temper tantrums because we literally started a rebuild with no pick, no prospects, and barely any assets to trade is enough for me to throw their opinion out. I'm excited for our future, and have a good feeling about our current core. Just needs some tweaking and then we magically forget how long we have been bad. Just like they did with Tampa, Colorado, Carolina, and now the Panthers.

Reason why devils cant trade their first round picks. Talented teams wins, other losts. And even talent is not the insurance. We did sign Hamilton for 7 years and everybody think that this is out prime, but in fact when Dougie will left us, Jack will be only 26-27 yo, Dawson and Holtz will be 25, Luke will be 25. Slafkovsky\Jiricek\Cutter\Nemec will be 24. It will be the prime. And Devils should think about the future anyway.

 

[Buck Dancer]

Reason why devils cant trade their first round picks. Talented teams wins, other losts. And even talent is not the insurance. We did sign Hamilton for 7 years and everybody think that this is out prime, but in fact when Dougie will left us, Jack will be only 26-27 yo, Dawson and Holtz will be 25, Luke will be 25. Slafkovsky\Jiricek\Cutter\Nemec will be 24. It will be the prime. And Devils should think about the future anyway.

Exactly... by the time Hamilton's deal will be close to over, we should be hitting our peak when taking into consideration the names you pulled from our core. What we did last year by getting Hamilton, for the 2022-23 season, was to basically trade a 33 year old PK Subban for a 29 year old Dougie Hamilton and anyone with half a brain would say that it's a slam dunk "trade" for us.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Exactly... by the time Hamilton's deal will be close to over, we should be hitting our peak when taking into consideration the names you pulled from our core. What we did last year by getting Hamilton, for the 2022-23 season, was to basically trade a 33 year old PK Subban for a 29 year old Dougie Hamilton and anyone with half a brain would say that it's a slam dunk "trade" for us.

That really isn’t a fair or true comparison. Hamilton will be here for another 6 years after Subban is gone. Dougie is obviously immediately a much better player than Subban and you’d much rather be paying Dougie 9M next year than Subban. But there is a possibility that Dougie’s contract starts feeling similar to PK’s by the end of it. Hopefully not because that cap will be quite a burden for a team with a bunch of core players in their prime.

In reality Subban’s cap hasn’t really had any negative effect on this team but Dougie’s could in the long run. Subban’s despite being a massive overpayment was for 3 years during a period of time where we’ve been rebuilding and had a ton of cap space to spare. Dougie’s is going to run through the time period where we are basically giving out contracts to all of our young stars, starting to become a contender and improve our team as much as we can. If Dougie’s play declines over the next few years than that contract won’t look good and will be a burden to improving the team that is hopefully looking to contend. Hopefully he doesn’t decline much.

 

[Dallas1229]

That really isn’t a fair or true comparison. Hamilton will be here for another 6 years after Subban is gone. Dougie is obviously immediately a much better player than Subban and you’d much rather be paying Dougie 9M next year than Subban. But there is a possibility that Dougie’s contract starts feeling similar to PK’s by the end of it. Hopefully not because that cap will be quite a burden for a team with a bunch of core players in their prime.

In reality Subban’s cap hasn’t really had any negative effect on this team but Dougie’s could in the long run. Subban’s despite being a massive overpayment was for 3 years during a period of time where we’ve been rebuilding and had a ton of cap space to spare. Dougie’s is going to run through the time period where we are basically giving out contracts to all of our young stars, starting to become a contender and improve our team as much as we can. If Dougie’s play declines over the next few years than that contract won’t look good and will be a burden to improving the team that is hopefully looking to contend. Hopefully he doesn’t decline much.

I think Hamiltons will age better simply because he's more of technical player. He isn't the fastest but he is big, can read the ice fairly well, knows when to pinch, has an accurate shot, and can score in close.

I would of loved prime PK, but injuries derailed his career. He was fast, had a booming slapper, and wasn't afraid to hit players. If there was such thing as a power defensemen I'd say PK was the example of it. I suspect he will cup chase another season or two and hang them up for a broadcasting job.

 

[StevenToddIves]

A Devils regulation loss to Montreal plus Philly looking in control over Columbus is very good for the Devils draft-day status. If Seattle can win vs. Chicago, that would help, too.

At least there's something left to root for, I guess.

 

[Guadana]

A Devils regulation loss to Montreal plus Philly looking in control over Columbus is very good for the Devils draft-day status. If Seattle can win vs. Chicago, that would help, too.

At least there's something left to root for, I guess.

Someday we should stop with this masakhism. I want to draft Slafkovsky a lot, but not as much, as I can restain the pain.

 

[My3Sons]

Someday we should stop with this masakhism. I want to draft Slafkovsky a lot, but not as much, as I can restain the pain.

In English it’s spelled masochism. That’s not me being a pedantic jerk I know you work on your English and that’s a good word to learn as a NJ fan.