Prospect Info: 2022 8OA, Marco Kasper

[Snuggs]

Hopefully they get a try on the real squad(RedWings) and make it out of camp cause they are actually that good! Red Wings need something bad.

 

[lilidk]

It was the line that carried GR when their vets were pooping the bed.

In that case this line should be in Detroit next season as third line

 

[Redwing66]

In that case this line should be in Detroit next season as third line

Exactly - all three of these guys should be up and making a difference. So sick of giving low level free agent talent contracts and telling kids they must earn their spot.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

In that case this line should be in Detroit next season as third line

They should. but Yzerman has made it incredibly difficult to fit the young guys up at forward. Nobody’s fault but his own.

Kasper and Mazur looked ready to be at minimum 3rd liners by the end of last season yet he clogged the lineup with Veleno, Motte and Fischer. None are positive impact players. Veleno might have trade value but the other two will need probably need to be waived.

 

[Frk It]

They should. but Yzerman has made it incredibly difficult to fit the young guys up at forward. Nobody’s fault but his own.

Kasper and Mazur looked ready to be at minimum 3rd liners by the end of last season yet he clogged the lineup with Veleno, Motte and Fischer. None are positive impact players. Veleno might have trade value but the other two will need probably need to be waived.

Yeah I disagree, Kasper needs to show he can be dominant in the AHL before we put him in Detroit. I think another year in Grand Rapids is the right call.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

Yeah I disagree, Kasper needs to show he can be dominant in the AHL before we put him in Detroit. I think another year in Grand Rapids is the right call.

100%. Taking it slow might be the difference between 2C Kasper and 3C Kasper.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yeah I disagree, Kasper needs to show he can be dominant in the AHL before we put him in Detroit. I think another year in Grand Rapids is the right call.

Not every player dominates the previous level before they move up. Mazur, Danielson and Kasper should all have a legit shot at the roster.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

I would say I'm as big of a Kasper fan here outside of @OgeeOgelthorpe (who may or may not have a giant standee of Kasper already in his house, we may never know)...

But I would say something to

"Why wasn't he already up for the Wings this last year?"

Despite have three years of professional experience already; he's still crazy young. He's basically the same age as Danielsson. Remember last year when we saw him graduating from high school? Two season ago he got his debut and looked good in his one game with the Wings in the Spring of 23', and already looked like a good checking line C and cracked his knee cap and had to take the entire offseason to recover.

After he recovered they put him in the AHL to start the 23-24 season and guess what? He started slow. He have recency bias because he ended the year so strong but his first half of the AHL season slowly and I remember a lot of this board saying what a bust he was. No offense. He's broken. Fire everyone. Orrrrrr.... he's super young, had a tough injury, and needed some time to get comfortable with a new team, new country, more expectation, etc. etc. And guess what? By the spring of 2024, he looked like a monster at the AHL. Hell of a turnaround.

"Why isn't here starting already with the team?!"

Because he's young and he needs to show that he's ready. And also...again... he's young. Meaning they are often inconsistent. So he can show himself to be superior, but he could hit long slumps at the NHL level trying to figure it out, or become exhausted by Game 50 because he's not use the grind, etc. (I don't think that will bet he case with him for the record).

Do I really think that if Kasper comes in and absolutely shows up Motte, Fisher, Veleno, and that they would realistically keep her off the roster? No way. And all of those guys are super moveable if that were the case. This is the year now that after getting himself back into form in the Fall; showing up and wrecking the spring, and NOW having a full offseason to get stronger and better - that he comes in, and tears up training camp and preseason, I would not be surprised he is sitting as the 3C/W along with Copp. I don't think Motte, Fish or even Veleno are blockers to him in any way shape or form.

Kasper is going to be a stud; the question remains for me is just how high his ceiling is. Is he Ryan Kesler (2C, Selke, Physical, 60pt+), is he bigger Brad Marchand, playing as a two-way physical wing and taking over the defensive responsibilities from a more offense play driving C, or is he really just only a Jordan Staal like 3C - Defensive, Physical C whos 30-40pts. Time will tell. Anyway you cut it, this guy is going to be a gamer for us and we are going to love him and I very much expect him in the big club full time at some point this year.

 

[minimal]

They should. but Yzerman has made it incredibly difficult to fit the young guys up at forward. Nobody’s fault but his own.

Kasper and Mazur looked ready to be at minimum 3rd liners by the end of last season yet he clogged the lineup with Veleno, Motte and Fischer. None are positive impact players. Veleno might have trade value but the other two will need probably need to be waived.

Not really. I think it's overly pessimistic to think that they wouldn't be given a spot in the lineup if they proved themselves this year in camp. Those three players you listed make over 4 mil combined? Ought to be easy to deal with that if the the young guys force themselves in.

 

[Tatar Shots]

I’m holding out hope Kasper takes the LW spot alongside Compher and Kane

 

[lilidk]

Yeah I disagree, Kasper needs to show he can be dominant in the AHL before we put him in Detroit. I think another year in Grand Rapids is the right call.

He wasn't dominant in the end of the season? I believe he already could easily replace Copp or Veleno and team will not be worse

I’m holding out hope Kasper takes the LW spot alongside Compher and Kane

That line will get power forward and second center, not bad.

 

[Frk It]

Not every player dominates the previous level before they move up. Mazur, Danielson and Kasper should all have a legit shot at the roster.

I think Danielson and Mazur are closer than Kasper.

I think Kasper needs to try to develop more of an offensive game and he’s not going to do that in the NHL.

 

[lilidk]

I think Danielson and Mazur are closer than Kasper.

I think Kasper needs to try to develop more of an offensive game and he’s not going to do that in the NHL.

If Kasper physically NHL ready, probably bottom 6, Danielson needs to work hard in GR next season to be physically ready

 

[norrisnick]

I think Danielson and Mazur are closer than Kasper.

I think Kasper needs to try to develop more of an offensive game and he’s not going to do that in the NHL.

One of three players above has 3 seasons of pro hockey under his belt. The other two combine for one.

Not if that is not what his role will be moving forward. Also, learning how to score in the AHL and learning how to score in the NHL are two very different things and more often than not don't translate.

 

[Frk It]

One of three players above has 3 seasons of pro hockey under his belt. The other two combine for one.

Not if that is not what his role will be moving forward. Also, learning how to score in the AHL and learning how to score in the NHL are two very different things and more often than not don't translate.

What’s the point of rushing him so he can play 13/14 minutes a night in the bottom 6?

When he could be playing 18/19 a night in GR and probably have like a .75 ppg season or better and build confidence.

I don’t think it’s a guarantee either necessarily delivers a different outcome, but I pretty strongly prefer the latter from a development perspective.

 

[norrisnick]

What’s the point of rushing him so he can play 13/14 minutes a night in the bottom 6?

When he could be playing 18/19 a night in GR and probably have like a .75 ppg season or better and build confidence.

I don’t think it’s a guarantee either necessarily delivers a different outcome, but I pretty strongly prefer the latter from a development perspective.

I'm not worried at all about the confidence of a 20yo professional athlete. If Marco is lacking in confidence he never would have gotten to this point in the first place.

I also don't see the value in trying to become a proven AHL scorer. Berggren is an AHL all-star and half the board wants to be rid of him because scoring in the AHL doesn't mean anything.

There are meaningful minutes available in the NHL. If he grabs them, he grabs them. I don't see the point of being scared of young players in the NHL. Not saying you're scared, but coaches in general. Veterans can play just as shitty as a kid. I'm super glad we got those 34 games and 1 assist out of 30 year old Czarnik last season... That experience couldn't possibly be beneficial for a young guy.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

This was a line at GR's playoff run, if I remember right?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1775967771995615273

 

[jkutswings]

What’s the point of rushing him so he can play 13/14 minutes a night in the bottom 6?

When he could be playing 18/19 a night in GR and probably have like a .75 ppg season or better and build confidence.

I don’t think it’s a guarantee either necessarily delivers a different outcome, but I pretty strongly prefer the latter from a development perspective.

I'm willing to listen to the argument that another year in Grand Rapids could benefit Kasper. But that's completely separate from then deciding to fill out the bottom half of an NHL lineup with crappy players.

If the kids still need to ripen a bit, fine. But find some players that don't suck in the meantime. Veleno is a 13th forward and neither Motte nor Fischer should even be on a hallway decent NHL team.

 

[Oddbob]

Yeah I disagree, Kasper needs to show he can be dominant in the AHL before we put him in Detroit. I think another year in Grand Rapids is the right call.

I don't know, how well has extra seasons really done for any of the good NHL players that played time in the AHL? Nyquist, Tatar, Hudler and others were about the same regardless of 1 or 2 extra seasons, "ripening"! I honestly think extra time is only good for those who are long term projects, who have deficiencies or things that need fixing to their game, like ASP types who probably need time to get better defensively, or players still growing into their bodies.

Kasper in particular sounds like he might play a style that transitions to the NHL pretty well. Not against him being in GR this season, but if he is legit better than Veleno, Motte, etc, I think he should make the team, same for Danielson. We are supposed to be a rebuilding team, and we seem to do an awful lot to keep the youth from even getting a chance to play in the NHL. Not every rookie that comes in to play games needs to have a Seider level start to stay up. Much rather the kids are up and learning how to be effective in NHL games, then Motte and other fringe guys needing to be in our lineup on the minute chance they are slightly better defensively than kids. Especially since Steve has basically refrained from saying we "need" playoffs this season. Let the kids play that are ready or close and see how we fair.

I'm willing to listen to the argument that another year in Grand Rapids could benefit Kasper. But that's completely separate from then deciding to fill out the bottom half of an NHL lineup with crappy players.

If the kids still need to ripen a bit, fine. But find some players that don't suck in the meantime. Veleno is a 13th forward and neither Motte nor Fischer should even be on a hallway decent NHL team.

I disagree on Fischer big time. He is the perfect 4th line forward, as he can PK, provides some grit and won't complain with low ice time.

 

[Pavels Dog]

What’s the point of rushing him so he can play 13/14 minutes a night in the bottom 6?

I would have no problem with Kasper spending more time in GR, if it looks like he needs it.
Having said that, we need to start giving prospects NHL time eventually and it can’t all be in the top 6.

 

[newfy]

What’s the point of rushing him so he can play 13/14 minutes a night in the bottom 6?

When he could be playing 18/19 a night in GR and probably have like a .75 ppg season or better and build confidence.

I don’t think it’s a guarantee either necessarily delivers a different outcome, but I pretty strongly prefer the latter from a development perspective.

I think Kasper is a guy that I would completely make a decision on based on his training camp and preseason. Would you like to see some more offense before he comes up? Sure I guess, but the AHL is becoming a dead puck era type of league. He finished strong offensively regardless of what counting stats say, and watching the Griffins live... Kasper looked by far the most dominant forward (Berggren wasnt in the line up).

Leaving a guy in a league that basically no one even goes point per game in. If youre putting up 50ish point youre a high end scorer in that league. Some time in the league with guys like Kane and Debrincat might actually be better for him than staying down there.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Also, learning how to score in the AHL and learning how to score in the NHL are two very different things and more often than not don't translate.

Berggren is an AHL all-star and half the board wants to be rid of him because scoring in the AHL doesn't mean anything.

Now you're finally starting to put together thoughts at an NHL level instead of an AHL level. The development time was good for you.

Berggren is good enough to fight for AHL lead in points, but in the NHL where his offensive production drops, the holes in his defensive game become more glaring, and he ends up being not the same first line, all-star level talent in the NHL as he is in the AHL. He becomes more or less irrelevant, hopefully he changes that story this year.

A modified version of this can be said for Kasper, in that if he already struggles to produce points consistently in the AHL, it's going to be much more difficult in the NHL. And while Marco has a good effort and defensive approach to the game where he probably can still hang, but is anyone interested in another Veleno? A 30-point guy who plays a depth line without any significant roles on special teams and not really a matchup guy, so he just kind of.... is a body?

 

[norrisnick]

Now you're finally starting to put together thoughts at an NHL level instead of an AHL level. The development time was good for you.

Good thing all that time was spent on the AHL forum. Oh wait...

 

[jkutswings]

A modified version of this can be said for Kasper, in that if he already struggles to produce points consistently in the AHL, it's going to be much more difficult in the NHL. And while Marco has a good effort and defensive approach to the game where he probably can still hang, but is anyone interested in another Veleno? A 30-point guy who plays a depth line without any significant roles on special teams and not really a matchup guy, so he just kind of.... is a body?

I would say that Kasper has more compete and intensity in his pinky finger than Veleno has in his entire body. If the kid needs more time before coming up, ok. But the two players are very very different.

 

[izlez]

neither Motte nor Fischer should even be on a hallway decent NHL team.

Motte was on the Rangers and the Lightning over the last couple years. Playing games for them in the playoffs

I don't know, how well has extra seasons really done for any of the good NHL players that played time in the AHL? Nyquist, Tatar, Hudler and others were about the same regardless of 1 or 2 extra seasons, "ripening"!

How could you possibly know this?