Prospect Info: 2022 8OA, Marco Kasper

[FMichael]

If anyone should be healthy scratched, it's him. Much like Sprong, he's useless if he's not scoring.

At this rate, he's looking at a buyout and retirement.

I honestly forgot the Wings signed Tarasenko - the handful of games I've been able to watch he's invisible out there...And Kane being all cute with the puck isn't doing much better.

 

[Oddbob]

I answered your question.

But, it's pointless as usual, because as soon as you're proven inaccurate, you just move the goalposts to suit yourself.

Again, it's a pointless exercise to point out that the Hockey Hall of Fame is factually littered with players who didn't come out scoring like gangbusters. You'll just point out that Kasper isn't the same as these players because they didn't play the exact same amount, with the exact same linemates, with the exact same team, in the exact same period of the NHL.

It also doesn't take much thought to suggest over and over again that the scoring isn't there yet, like no one knows that already.

The kid has played 10 NHL games. He's 20-years old!!! He has done very good things in every single game. He's had an impact, unlike some of the other small, high scoring junior forwards, who so many are always pissing and moaning about Yzerman not drafting.

The coach is not afraid to use him in any situation at all ... after 10 GAMES! Like, you can't see that the kid is extremely concerned about defense first? Playing on a line with two of the worst defensive players in the NHL?

If you can't see the improvement, the young D who will dominate for years to come, other guys waiting on the doorstep. But, oh no!!! ... they got shutout by the Rangers at home in November. What a useless team!!! Yzerman sucks!!! Lalonde sucks!!!

Whining about Dylan Larkin, because he's not Pavel Datsyuk (like those guys come along all the time, amiright?) ... it's insane FFS.

What are talking about as usual? Didn't move goalposts either. If one player plays 8 minutes in a defensive era and one plays 15 in an offensive era, that is not an even comparison. Also using only top end players to support your argument is not a good argument.

Show me where I even mentioned Dylan Larkin, let alone, complained about him. Kasper isn't even in the realm of what Larkin did to start his career, so again not sure why you mention Larkin.

If you can watch how this team has played this season and be happy about it, then you must like both losing and boring hockey. We have been outshot by a lot and out chanced as well. We also always make excuses, like a tough schedule and flu bug and what not, when every team deals with both these things. Two really good young defenceman is indeed great, but the rest of our blueline looks terrible and really only ASP looks like a really good one coming up. Aljo to me, seems like a replaceable part that will be gone in 1-3 years.

Difference between you and me, is I can realize there is lots of things to like about Kasper's game, but there is plenty to be worried about as well. Some people here seem to think you can't say anything negative or a critique about our beloved Red Wings, as if that makes you a bad fan, because you don't think everything is sunshine and rainbows.

 

[Gniwder]

I honestly forgot the Wings signed Tarasenko - the handful of games I've been able to watch he's invisible out there...And Kane being all cute with the puck isn't doing much better.

Would have been better off signing Mantha AND Vrana.

Get rid of players for lack of effort and poor defensive play, then sign another player with the same issues that's older and slower.

 

[Oddbob]

Would have been better off signing Mantha AND Vrana.

Get rid of players for lack of effort and poor defensive play, then sign another player with the same issues that's older and slower.

While I agree Tank was a weird choice, I would have been so sad to see Mantha back. Such a frustrating waste of skill. We should have just brought Sprong back, he only costs a million per and likely puts up more pts than Tank will based on how he is playing right now.

 

[lilidk]

Tarasenko had 9 points in 24 playoff games last season. It's a third line line player numbers, not good defensively. What can we get for him. Pretty sure have to keep some of his money. We could easily replace him with Elmer, a lot cheaper and probably better defensively

 

[Gniwder]

While I agree Tank was a weird choice, I would have been so sad to see Mantha back. Such a frustrating waste of skill. We should have just brought Sprong back, he only costs a million per and likely puts up more pts than Tank will based on how he is playing right now.

Apparently Mantha tore his ACL and is out for the season. He could probably still outplay Tank though.

Tarasenko had 9 points in 24 playoff games last season. It's a third line line player numbers, not good defensively. What can we get for him. Pretty sure have to keep some of his money. We could easily replace him with Elmer, a lot cheaper and probably better defensively

Elmer is off to a slow start this season, and Mazur is injured. If Tank gets benched, we get to see Joey and Motte. Sadly, Shine is GR's top scorer followed by Lombardi, so Watson probably gets first call up.

I'm really disappointed with Tank. I knew he wasn't going to be an 80 pt player, but he was over 50 the last 2 seasons. He's on pace for around 20, if he doesn't get benched. He's too slow to keep up with the kids, adds nothing to this team.

 

[Henkka]

It's more of the lockerroom thing, than what Mantha or Sprong could give as individuals.

Those are not wanted people, like Tarasenko is as a 2-time Stanley Cup winner and former Blues Alternate Captain.

We don't need any of those rotten tomatoes, because they could affect negative way for our good tomato-core.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Honest question. How many star players start their careers with only 1 pt in their first 10 games? I venture to guess, not many. There are lots of players who look good but don't produce.

Not giving up on him or saying he won't become a star, but his start is not promising at all from an offensive stand point.

Finding young players with slow offensive starts is not difficult at all. I keep comparing Kasper to Roope Hintz - he had 3 points his first 15 games as a 22 year old. Kasper is 20. Looking at guys in the 18-19 year range you'll find Reinhart and Zibanejad (1 in 9).

One might also question why the bar is "star player", that's never been the expectation for Kasper.

 

[Twinger]

Finding young players with slow offensive starts is not difficult at all. I keep comparing Kasper to Roope Hintz - he had 3 points his first 15 games as a 22 year old. Kasper is 20. Looking at guys in the 18-19 year range you'll find Reinhart and Zibanejad (1 in 9).

One might also question why the bar is "star player", that's never been the expectation for Kasper.

I'm going to say people put the bar at star player because people want a flashy star player, he was drafted high and you need stars to win.

If one of him or Nate aren't stars are we counting on Seider or Edvinsson to be Norris candidates?

If this team showed defensive structure then sure maybe we can get away without having stars.

Leave him up another 10 games and like some have mentioned maybe switch up the lines. If after those he's still not putting up points then send him to GR for big offensive minutes

 

[Pavels Dog]

I'm going to say people put the bar at star player because people want a flashy star player, he was drafted high and you need stars to win.

If one of him or Nate aren't stars are we counting on Seider or Edvinsson to be Norris candidates?

Some players are stars at 18-20, most develop into it over time. Either way I certainly wouldn't count out Kasper because of 10 games where he's actually looked good. I mean he's managed to turn a line with Berggren and Tarasenko into not being a defensive liability so if we're judging based on these games he's probably got Selke votes in his future.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Just the fact someone thinks 10 games is enough to get worried is disturbing. Plenty of star and just really good players have had slow statistical starts to their careers. Ten games is nothing. Thinking it won't get much better has led teams to making really bad trades, ie Thornton being traded by Boston. Adam Graves had one point in the nine games he played his first year in Detroit, one point in the first 10 games his second year, one point in 13 games his third year when he was traded to Edmonton. Not much there, figured the geniuses behind that trade, probably with the approval of stat-watching fans. Kesler had one point in his first 10 games of his 21yo season and two points in his first 21 GP (after just five points in 28 games the previous season). More recently, JT Miller had one point the first 11 games of his 20yo season after getting just four points in 26 games the previous season. There are plenty more, but those three were first-rounders to a large extent for things besides scoring ability, just like Kasper was. The message for all of them -- and literally hundreds of others over NHL history -- is that you need to be a LOT more patient than giving it 10 games before you know what kind of player you've drafted.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

Don’t forget Kasper (although coming off an injury) started slow in the AHL last year and heated up massively.

Also remember he’s playing with a literally cursed berggren and doggy water Tarasenko… kind of hard to produce as a C when your wingers can’t score lol

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Joe Thornton was pointless his first 21
Finished with
55-3-4-7

This stat proves what?

 

[Oddbob]

Finding young players with slow offensive starts is not difficult at all. I keep comparing Kasper to Roope Hintz - he had 3 points his first 15 games as a 22 year old. Kasper is 20. Looking at guys in the 18-19 year range you'll find Reinhart and Zibanejad (1 in 9).

One might also question why the bar is "star player", that's never been the expectation for Kasper.

The star player thing should be what we hope for. Otherwise our rebuild will never be good. If we have no other top end players coming we might as well restart the rebuild and sell everyone we have off right now including Raymond and Seider. We need to hope others becomes a stars or major players at some point offensively as there is no guarantee that Ray is going to get better than what he is. We aren't going to win anything just being a good 2 way team. The whole point of prospects is hoping they become something they aren't expected to be. Otherwise why are people excited about 7th rounder Emmitt Finnie as 7th rounders are never expected to be much. Our roster is now at a point where we will be drafting 8-15 probably and later in the next coming years, which makes getting top end players that much harder.

Dats and Hank weren't expected to be what they became. That is the whole point. We need to be hoping some of Kasper, Danielson, Cossa, ASP, Finnie or whoever far outreach their expected outcomes. Kasper becoming only a 2nd-3rd liner in the 40 pt range with solid defence just gives us a younger Copp or Compher which isn't good enough to do anything of value.

 

[GMR]

It's more of the lockerroom thing, than what Mantha or Sprong could give as individuals.

Those are not wanted people, like Tarasenko is as a 2-time Stanley Cup winner and former Blues Alternate Captain.

We don't need any of those rotten tomatoes, because they could affect negative way for our good tomato-core.

Just because Sprong slapped some racecar driver in the face a little bit?

 

[Geezer WC]

Adam Graves had one point in the nine games he played his first year in Detroit, one point in the first 10 games his second year, one point in 13 games his third year when he was traded to Edmonton. Not much there, figured the geniuses behind that trade.

So you didn't like Jimmy the Greek's back checking or lack there of either. It's been about 35 years and I don't even remember if it was Jimmy D or Bryan Murray. Maybe time to move on dude.

 

[Nnowski]

Kasper's most likely outcome was always a gritty middle 6er. Look at Sam Bennett before he was traded to Florida, he's a good comparable. A very good Kasper season would be 40pts

 

[Pavels Dog]

The star player thing should be what we hope for. Otherwise our rebuild will never be good. If we have no other top end players coming we might as well restart the rebuild and sell everyone we have off right now including Raymond and Seider. We need to hope others becomes a stars or major players at some point offensively as there is no guarantee that Ray is going to get better than what he is. We aren't going to win anything just being a good 2 way team. The whole point of prospects is hoping they become something they aren't expected to be. Otherwise why are people excited about 7th rounder Emmitt Finnie as 7th rounders are never expected to be much. Our roster is now at a point where we will be drafting 8-15 probably and later in the next coming years, which makes getting top end players that much harder.

Dats and Hank weren't expected to be what they became. That is the whole point. We need to be hoping some of Kasper, Danielson, Cossa, ASP, Finnie or whoever far outreach their expected outcomes. Kasper becoming only a 2nd-3rd liner in the 40 pt range with solid defence just gives us a younger Copp or Compher which isn't good enough to do anything of value.

In a larger rebuilding perspective, sure.
What becomes problematic is if you can't objectively judge a prospect on his own merits without asking him to look like the solution to the rebuild 10 games into his NHL career.

 

[Twinger]

Some players are stars at 18-20, most develop into it over time. Either way I certainly wouldn't count out Kasper because of 10 games where he's actually looked good. I mean he's managed to turn a line with Berggren and Tarasenko into not being a defensive liability so if we're judging based on these games he's probably got Selke votes in his future.

Ya still plenty of time to develop. I was more touching on why the bar is at star player. If him and Nate turn into 50-60 point good defensive centers that's a huge drafting win but is it enough?
Do we need an offensive star or between one or both of those 2, Larkin,Raymond and Seider/Edvinsson we have our blueprint for a cup team

I'm picturing the power rangers morphing into the one big robot with 5 of these

This stat proves what?

Someone asked about slow career starts and I always remember Thornton starting out that way. Doesn't mean anything for Kasper.

 

[RRhoads]

Pucks are not going in at the moment, but that is not limited to Kasper. The same is true for the entire team 5v5.

I am not worried, because he looks great out there. He looks like a future line driver.

 

[Oddbob]

In a larger rebuilding perspective, sure.
What becomes problematic is if you can't objectively judge a prospect on his own merits without asking him to look like the solution to the rebuild 10 games into his NHL career.

Not asking for him to be the answer now. Just wish he was producing more pts and plays, ones like he made on that nice pass to Berggren that Berggren failed to score on.. I think he looks good not great in the other areas of the game. He made more impression on me in the preseason games as far as showing off some skill. I do wish Lalonde would separate him, Berggren and Tank as they aren't clicking.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Some players are stars at 18-20, most develop into it over time. Either way I certainly wouldn't count out Kasper because of 10 games where he's actually looked good. I mean he's managed to turn a line with Berggren and Tarasenko into not being a defensive liability so if we're judging based on these games he's probably got Selke votes in his future.

People are forgetting about ROR, Couturier, Ericksson-Ekk. Guys that didn't start out in the NHL as major scoring threats until a few years in.

 

[SirloinUB]

Honest question. How many star players start their careers with only 1 pt in their first 10 games? I venture to guess, not many. There are lots of players who look good but don't produce.

Not giving up on him or saying he won't become a star, but his start is not promising at all from an offensive stand point.

Leon Draisaitl had 3 points in his first 10 games. He put up 9 points in 37 games before finishing the season in junior.

He had 3 points in his final 14 NHL games that year.

 

[Frk It]

Not asking for him to be the answer now. Just wish he was producing more pts and plays, ones like he made on that nice pass to Berggren that Berggren failed to score on.. I think he looks good not great in the other areas of the game. He made more impression on me in the preseason games as far as showing off some skill. I do wish Lalonde would separate him, Berggren and Tank as they aren't clicking.

Mikko Rantanen did not have a point in the first 13 games of his career, if that makes you feel any better.

 

[SirloinUB]

So you are picking some of the better ones, as if that means Kasper will do the same? There is many many more who didn't become top end players after slow starts. Again not saying Kasper won't get it going, just that it isn't an exciting start so far.

What the hell. You literally requested examples of "better/star" players who had slow starts as an "honest question."

Honest question. How many star players start their careers with only 1 pt in their first 10 games? I venture to guess, not many. There are lots of players who look good but don't produce.

Not giving up on him or saying he won't become a star, but his start is not promising at all from an offensive stand point.