JohanFranzenstein
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- Dec 6, 2013
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I mean, what's the worst that could happen icing him on Larkins wing for a game? He gets outplayed and lines get shuffled again?
Prospect Info: 2022 8OA, Marco Kasper
- Thread starter SoupNazi
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jkutswings
hot piss hockey
- Jul 10, 2014
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Clearly it's a deployment issue.
Kasper brings energy --> The coach says that the road team only benefits from things that are sleepy --> Kasper should only be playing home games.
Oddbob
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A lot of people on HFWings have apparently never heard of trying new things, not because someone earned it, but because things aren't really working, so you try something else that might work. For all we know, Kasper could be great with Larkin just because he is smart and can get the puck for Larkin from forechecking for example.
Playing 3 players that aren't scoring together, seems like a really bad idea.
LongTimeDRWF
Registered User
Since the team overall seems stuck in a rut where they can't get it in the net, despite great looks, after watching the last 2 games closely, I think Newsy should try for Kasper:
2-4 games (Line 1)
Kasper - Larkin - Raymond (Gain some Raymond time)
4 - 6 games (Line 2)
Berggren - Kasper - Raymond (All had success with 1 other line-mate, Berggren is the common one)
I was in favor of sending Kasper down for a bit to 100% work on shooting, but he has shown a quick release and a knack to get open looks, I would like to see what happens if he gets some better feeds.
If he still shows an need to work on his shot, then maybe back to GR for a bit at the end of the month just to work on that and bring him back up once he gets there, other than shooting, he seems quite ready for steady play.
The Kasper line IMO has created at least as many if not more chances at ES than the second line, just nothing is going in from combination of not bearing down or being unlucky. Berggren might also just be squeezing his stick too hard to relax and finish like we know (or suspect) he can. There's nothing a coach can do about that and while tinkering with line combos is always going to happen, there's not much of a reason yet to change things up for that line and the roster is such that there aren't a lot of good alternatives. Team isn't good enough yet to come up with perfect solutions.
We're also seeing D get more engaged offensively, but combination of overall lack of skill by too many of them and shots being off-target or blocked produces very little. Even the fourth line, when Veleno has been at C, has caused some chaos and a few chances. You can see almost everyone trying too hard to set up quality chances and over-passing rather than being ready to shoot and letting it rip without taking a second or two to contemplate the state of the universe. That is spreading now to the PP. Stop over-thinking things and shoot the g-dam puck.
Wings have to focus on being better defensively, which they have been in terms of giving up quality chances, but it's going to come at a cost until some of the chances they get start going in. There is a decent amount of energy and competence now being put into moving the puck up-ice, but they'll get more chances if they are just ready and willing to shoot while somebody goes to the net with a bad attitude and ready to put stick on puck. Hockey is stupidly simple at times, we're making it way more complicated than it needs to be.
We're also seeing D get more engaged offensively, but combination of overall lack of skill by too many of them and shots being off-target or blocked produces very little. Even the fourth line, when Veleno has been at C, has caused some chaos and a few chances. You can see almost everyone trying too hard to set up quality chances and over-passing rather than being ready to shoot and letting it rip without taking a second or two to contemplate the state of the universe. That is spreading now to the PP. Stop over-thinking things and shoot the g-dam puck.
Wings have to focus on being better defensively, which they have been in terms of giving up quality chances, but it's going to come at a cost until some of the chances they get start going in. There is a decent amount of energy and competence now being put into moving the puck up-ice, but they'll get more chances if they are just ready and willing to shoot while somebody goes to the net with a bad attitude and ready to put stick on puck. Hockey is stupidly simple at times, we're making it way more complicated than it needs to be.
stillwater
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Forum mainstays:
"I can't believe Yzerman isn't calling Kasper up when he clearly was one of the best forwards in pre-season. Yzerman sucks!!!"
Forum mainstays, a short while later:
"I can't believe Yzerman isn't sending Kasper down to GR, when he clearly is not going to develop any offense at all. Yzerman sucks!!!"
There are literally hundreds of players in the past and present in the NHL who did not score much initially, but were still able to make their respective teams better. Kasper is one.
"I can't believe Yzerman isn't calling Kasper up when he clearly was one of the best forwards in pre-season. Yzerman sucks!!!"
Forum mainstays, a short while later:
"I can't believe Yzerman isn't sending Kasper down to GR, when he clearly is not going to develop any offense at all. Yzerman sucks!!!"
There are literally hundreds of players in the past and present in the NHL who did not score much initially, but were still able to make their respective teams better. Kasper is one.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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My point was I don't think sending him down to GR isn't going to un-box this offensive ability within him.
Danielson is currently doing bad in the AHL, he would get eaten alive in the NHL
lilidk
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- Mar 4, 2008
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I don't care , regardless he will have experience and that's win win for organization
He is not doing bad, he's just physically not there yet. Just meter of time he gets stronger.
heyfolks
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stillwater
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Sam Reinhart, Brad Marchand, Mark Stone, Nazem Kadri, Tage Thompson, Mika Zibanijed ... offhand without looking any up, because you can't do it yourself.
stillwater
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Brendan Shanahan scored 1 goal in his first 32 games, in an NHL that was a lot easier to score goals in.
Gniwder
Registered User
Beggren is the reason why Kasper only has one assist. Burger has taken more shots than Ray has. His slow start is a bigger problem than Kasper not scoring goals.
And Tank looks like he wants a buyout.
Now that they have competent goaltending (Husso aside), they need to focus more on offense even if the defense is a bit suspect. They are the second worst team in the whole league for shots per game. Hard to win games when you don't shoot.
Whether it's GR or the Wings, he needs to be on the top 6 to develop any offense. All of these players that were mentioned as having issues scoring their first season, it's because they got stuck on bottom 6 lines. McMichael was mentioned earlier, he looks a lot better playing second line winger than 4C. If he can't get points with Ray/Kane, then it's time to send him down.
The problem here is that Fester is stubborn. He's probably gonna keep Copp on the second line for 10 games before realizing Copp's scoring run is over. 2 skate deflections and 2 empty net goals, Copp's production is unsustainable. It's almost like he's stat watching, lol.
Oddbob
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He also only played 8 minutes a game on the 4th line. Kasper is playing nearly twice that and in a higher scoring era. Thornton was playing in the dead puck era.
Oddbob
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So you are picking some of the better ones, as if that means Kasper will do the same? There is many many more who didn't become top end players after slow starts. Again not saying Kasper won't get it going, just that it isn't an exciting start so far.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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The reason they got stuck on bottom 6 lines is because they didn't have the capability for more. Getting sent to the AHL isn't going to change that.
People like to blame the developmental path when players don't pan out, and I think in most cases that is a waste of time.
I think most of the players that make it would have done so if developed in a multitude of ways, and the inverse is true for those who don't make it.
stillwater
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I answered your question.
But, it's pointless as usual, because as soon as you're proven inaccurate, you just move the goalposts to suit yourself.
Again, it's a pointless exercise to point out that the Hockey Hall of Fame is factually littered with players who didn't come out scoring like gangbusters. You'll just point out that Kasper isn't the same as these players because they didn't play the exact same amount, with the exact same linemates, with the exact same team, in the exact same period of the NHL.
It also doesn't take much thought to suggest over and over again that the scoring isn't there yet, like no one knows that already.
The kid has played 10 NHL games. He's 20-years old!!! He has done very good things in every single game. He's had an impact, unlike some of the other small, high scoring junior forwards, who so many are always pissing and moaning about Yzerman not drafting.
The coach is not afraid to use him in any situation at all ... after 10 GAMES! Like, you can't see that the kid is extremely concerned about defense first? Playing on a line with two of the worst defensive players in the NHL?
If you can't see the improvement, the young D who will dominate for years to come, other guys waiting on the doorstep. But, oh no!!! ... they got shutout by the Rangers at home in November. What a useless team!!! Yzerman sucks!!! Lalonde sucks!!!
Whining about Dylan Larkin, because he's not Pavel Datsyuk (like those guys come along all the time, amiright?) ... it's insane FFS.
Gniwder
Registered User
Huh? Those players all mentioned like Tage, McMichaels, Shanny, Marchand were all a lot more than bottom 6 players by a wide margin. I remember when Chandler Stephenson and Burakovsky were stuck in bottom 6 roles with the Caps then got traded before they bloomed.
Kasper is already creating more scoring opportunities than Copp, let him play with linemates that can score or send him down. I'm not sure Kasper will ever become a goal scorer, but he should have racked up some assists by now, even with only 10 games. Fester is stifling his development.
I don't think development path matters too much with natural scorers, but it does for those who don't have that talent. The Caps stuck Wilson in a top 6 role, and his puck skills and shooting improved considerably the first few seasons.
There's going to be line-tinkering if offense doesn't pick up, maybe even the next game, but I wouldn't move Kasper to the wing. Kasper getting some points is not a big issue for me. He's better defensively, so keep him in a primarily defensive role for now and let him concentrate on what he does best. Next move IMO would be to switch Berggren and Copp. Or have we tried that already? I forget lol. Berggren is at least close to scoring and might benefit from playing with Kane, and vice-versa. Copp could give Kasper a bit of help on faceoffs and a line that hasn't scored gets better defensively. Tarasenko is the main problem for the third line but there isn't an obvious alternative. Copp-Tarasenko are not great, but neither are they Motte-Fischer. They're better than anyone Kasper would be playing with in GR. Wings really need Tarasenko to at least look like only a slightly diminished version of his recent self rather than a guy with one foot already out the door.
Gniwder
Registered User
Bruins just sent Poitras down, same draft class. Nothing wrong with sending a 20 year old kid down to work on his game.
Kasper is waaaay ahead of him defensively though.
Kasper is waaaay ahead of him defensively though.
stillwater
cellar door
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Tarasenko seems more concerned with taking a victory lap and being buddy/buddy with the guys on the other teams.
I know it's November in the regular year and not the Stanley Cup Final, but c'mon dude.
I know it's November in the regular year and not the Stanley Cup Final, but c'mon dude.
Gniwder
Registered User
If anyone should be healthy scratched, it's him. Much like Sprong, he's useless if he's not scoring.
At this rate, he's looking at a buyout and retirement.
HisNoodliness
Good things come to those who wait
You're probably right. I don't think there's much magic to development and you're likely to get a similar player regardless of their path. I still think that it is always worth trying things out if what you're doing isn't working. Maybe that's not sending Kasper down, maybe it's giving him a shot on a higher line, on the wing, etc. Maybe it's too early to shake things up. I guess I'm just at the point where personally, I'm concerned with Kasper, and think we should try to make sure that he doesn't get typecast as the player he is right now.
