Prospect Info: 2022 8OA, Marco Kasper

[Gniwder]

Delusional when it comes to Kasper? Because I pointed out that you are wrong on your evaluation of that fight lol? Or are you imagining some other posts by me about Kasper? Or are you wrapping me into some collective of posters whom you've decided are wrong about Kasper in some?

I think you've constructed this narrative about Kasper, apparently in response to some posters who disagree with you, and now you're making this Kasper fight fit into that narrative. So much so that you're watching a fight that was clearly a draw, and claiming he lost it... so, you can try to prove a point about how Kasper won't be a good fighter in the NHL? Ok. Does anyone think this kid is going to be winning NHL fights regularly?

I have my opinions on Kasper, they are all right, and if you disagree, you are simply wrong

I actually know a former NHL agitator, if I showed him this clip, he'd laugh at you.

Being the shorter player in the fight, he can't grab the opponent by THE FRONT of the jersey because that puts him in a position where the opponent can hit him and he can't hit back. (He has shorter arms, he needs to grab by the back of the collar, not front.) That's how he got dominated before basically turtling at the end.

He needs some lessons on how to fight, and Watson isn't really the guy I'd want mentoring him. Watson isn't a technical fighter.

Edit, this is where the fight goes south for him:

 

[jaster]

I actually know a former NHL agitator, if I showed him this clip, he'd laugh at you.

He'd actually take you aside and recommend you drop it and cut your losses. And he'd ask you not to speak for him any more. NHL agitators don't like to be embarrassed like that

Being the shorter player in the fight, he can't grab the opponent by THE FRONT of the jersey because that puts him in a position where the opponent can hit him and he can't hit back. (He has shorter arms, he needs to grab by the back of the collar, not front.) That's how he got dominated before basically turtling at the end.

He needs some lessons on how to fight, and Watson isn't really the guy I'd want mentoring him. Watson isn't a technical fighter.

I wasn't making any statements about how good his technique was, or how well he'd fare against NHL fighters. But in this one particular fight, it was a draw. Frankly, neither guy had great technique. It was two kids who don't generally fight trying to fight. And given that his opponent was older, taller, and heavier, Marco did pretty well holding his own.

You want to see someone actually get dominated, look at the Danielson "fight." We can talk about where to grab, when to strike, how to protect yourself, etc., but the foundation to fighting on ice skates is balance and leverage. And the Kasper and Danielson fights are opposite ends of the spectrum there.

 

[Gniwder]

He'd actually take you aside and recommend you drop it and cut your losses. And he'd ask you not to speak for him any more. NHL agitators don't like to be embarrassed like that


I wasn't making any statements about how good his technique was, or how well he'd fare against NHL fighters. But in this one particular fight, it was a draw. Frankly, neither guy had great technique. It was two kids who don't generally fight trying to fight. And given that his opponent was older, taller, and heavier, Marco did pretty well holding his own.

You want to see someone actually get dominated, look at the Danielson "fight." We can talk about where to grab, when to strike, how to protect yourself, etc., but the foundation to fighting on ice skates is balance and leverage. And the Kasper and Danielson fights are opposite ends of the spectrum there.

I've actually watched multiple games with the guy at a bar, he'll sit next to me if he's not with his family.

Anyways, turtling isn't considered holding your own. He did poorly against a guy who doesn't know how to fight. That's actually bad. The fact that Danielson sucks at fighting does not make Kasper good.

The refs are in the way during the takedown, but it looked like Kasper turtled while grabbing Dach's arm, clinging on for dear life. I suppose that's "leverage", lol.

I said it last season, the kid will need to learn how to fight if he's gonna try to play his style in the NHL. Just another reason for him to get more time in the AHL.

 

[ShanahanMan]

Jesus, when did fighting become some essential NHL skill? People here are talking about Kasper and Danielson fighting like it's gonna take them to the next level. Who the f*** cares if they can "fight". Focus on playmaking and scoring. If fighting and agitating was such an important attribute, guys like John Scott would be in the hall of fame.

 

[norrisnick]

Is Appeal to Imaginary Friend a logical fallacy?

 

[jaster]

Anyways, turtling isn't considered holding your own. He did poorly against a guy who doesn't know how to fight. That's actually bad. The fact that Danielson sucks at fighting does not make Kasper good.

View attachment 916582

The refs are in the way during the takedown, but it looked like Kasper turtled while grabbing Dach's arm, clinging on for dear life. I suppose that's "leverage", lol.

I said it last season, the kid will need to learn how to fight if he's gonna try to play his style in the NHL. Just another reason for him to get more time in the AHL.

At no point in that fight did Kasper do anything even remotely resembling turtling. He simply went down with Dach on top of him. Again, you are distorting reality here in order for this fight to fit your narrative.

No one has ever said that Danielson being bad at fighting makes Kasper good. The point was to provide an example of what you are falsely describing the Kasper fight as, the example being the Danielson fight. Unless you think the two fights look the same, this should be a pretty easy point to understand.

Lastly, to a subject that's not cloaked in your alternate reality lol... Kasper does not need another second in the AHL. He's down there because of roster management only. He's fully NHL ready. And he certainly doesn't need to be learning fighting lessons down there. Even if we are to accept the argument that he needs to get better at fighting, he can pick up tricks of the trade in Detroit. He shouldn't be engaging in extra fights in the AHL, the risk far outweighs any perceived benefit.

 

[Retire91]

I still wince when I see two people with visors throwing bareknuckle haymakers, not that I have anything against visors, just the thought of how much that must wreck your hands.

 

[Gniwder]

At no point in that fight did Kasper do anything even remotely resembling turtling. He simply went down with Dach on top of him. Again, you are distorting reality here in order for this fight to fit your narrative.

No one has ever said that Danielson being bad at fighting makes Kasper good. The point was to provide an example of what you are falsely describing the Kasper fight as, the example being the Danielson fight. Unless you think the two fights look the same, this should be a pretty easy point to understand.

Lastly, to a subject that's not cloaked in your alternate reality lol... Kasper does not need another second in the AHL. He's down there because of roster management only. He's fully NHL ready. And he certainly doesn't need to be learning fighting lessons down there. Even if we are to accept the argument that he needs to get better at fighting, he can pick up tricks of the trade in Detroit. He shouldn't be engaging in extra fights in the AHL, the risk far outweighs any perceived benefit.

Maybe turtling is too strong of a word, but he definitely goes down, and it looks like he grabbed Dach's arm for dear life. Fortunately for him, most hockey players don't ground and pound because of the unwritten rule, and the refs were there to save his ass. One rule of real fighting is to never give up your back, and there are morons like the Tkachuk brothers who will ground and pound.

Setting a low bar doesn't make Kasper any better. Nate got into a facewashing contest and I don't think he expected Philips to come out swinging. Nate's gonna figure out he needs to bulk up a bit, and also not let his guard down.

Both kids need lessons, I don't actually want them to fight AHL players, they need PRACTICE. Bring in a guy that knows how to fight as a consultant. Learn where to hold a guy. They don't even know the basic fundamentals that could be taught in minutes while sitting at a bar. (Yeah, I talked to the agitator I know about fighting, lol. He wasn't an enforcer but logged a few of them.))

Case in point, watch this quick video. Then go watch where Philips (who isn't even a fighter) grabs Nate.

Nate Danielson vs. Isaak Phillips, October 12, 2024 - Grand Rapids Griffins vs. Rockford IceHogs | HockeyFights

HockeyFights - Nate Danielson vs. Isaak Phillips, October 12, 2024 - Grand Rapids Griffins vs. Rockford IceHogs

www.hockeyfights.com

 

[ricky0034]

gotta admit I didn't have "Kasper needs to stay in the AHL until he learns how to fight" on my bingo card for excuses people would trot out to justify him staying down there

 

[Redwing66]

gotta admit I didn't have "Kasper needs to stay in the AHL until he learns how to fight" on my bingo card for excuses people would trot out to justify him staying down there

More likely he'll injure himself fighting and stay AHL longer

 

[Snuggs]

Similar to this. Hang on, don't get worked. Bigger guys are dropping the glove with him its' not like he's going out looking for it. He's clearly annoying them or agitating someone/something. I don't mind the kid holding his ground and sticking up for himself but he's not someone that should be regular dropping the gloves.

 

[Gniwder]

Jesus, when did fighting become some essential NHL skill? People here are talking about Kasper and Danielson fighting like it's gonna take them to the next level. Who the f*** cares if they can "fight". Focus on playmaking and scoring. If fighting and agitating was such an important attribute, guys like John Scott would be in the hall of fame.

Kasper will be involved in a lot of scrums where he likes it or not because of the way he plays. He better learn to at least hold his own. By no ways am I encouraging him to become a fighter, that is not his role.

Similar to this.

Case in point.

gotta admit I didn't have "Kasper needs to stay in the AHL until he learns how to fight" on my bingo card for excuses people would trot out to justify him staying down there

He'll get his ass kicked in the NHL if he doesn't at least learn the basics.

Is Appeal to Imaginary Friend a logical fallacy?

He's not a friend. Just someone I talk to at my friend's bar on occasion. It's actually a cool experience to watch hockey games with a former pro.

He'll walk away from people who don't know hockey, so you'll never be able to have that experience.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Kasper doesn't need to learn to fight from a goon mentor or learn how to put up points on a minor league PP where for most guys some success there is irrelevant to what will make them successful in the NHL. All Marco needs to do in GR is go about the business of being himself, which considering his style is going to result in the odd scrap or coincidental slashing and roughing penalties. At some point, the sooner the better but hopefully by Christmas, management will call him up. It's obvious he is ready to contribute to a Wings team that could use what he brings to the table and it will be okay if he sometimes looks like a rookie treading water. Almost all of them do. There are vets on this team who would drown if not thrown something to hold onto.

 

[Gniwder]

Kasper doesn't need to learn to fight from a goon mentor or learn how to put up points on a minor league PP where for most guys some success there is irrelevant to what will make them successful in the NHL. All Marco needs to do in GR is go about the business of being himself, which considering his style is going to result in the odd scrap or coincidental slashing and roughing penalties. At some point, the sooner the better but hopefully by Christmas, management will call him up. It's obvious he is ready to contribute to a Wings team that could use what he brings to the table and it will be okay if he sometimes looks like a rookie treading water. Almost all of them do. There are vets on this team who would drown if not thrown something to hold onto.

Why do people think he's gonna learn to put up points in the NHL just by being in the NHL? If it was that easy, we'd all be fighting on NHL ice right now instead of here.

 

[Gniwder]

Jesus, when did fighting become some essential NHL skill? People here are talking about Kasper and Danielson fighting like it's gonna take them to the next level. Who the f*** cares if they can "fight". Focus on playmaking and scoring. If fighting and agitating was such an important attribute, guys like John Scott would be in the hall of fame.

You know, it's funny that people are saying he doesn't need to know how to fight when both Kasper and Nate wound up in fights in the first 2 games, lol.

Kasper plays like a pest, he'll wind up in fights. I feel like I'm explaining hockey to noobs.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I actually know a former NHL agitator, if I showed him this clip, he'd laugh at you.

Being the shorter player in the fight, he can't grab the opponent by THE FRONT of the jersey because that puts him in a position where the opponent can hit him and he can't hit back. (He has shorter arms, he needs to grab by the back of the collar, not front.) That's how he got dominated before basically turtling at the end.

He needs some lessons on how to fight, and Watson isn't really the guy I'd want mentoring him. Watson isn't a technical fighter.

Edit, this is where the fight goes south for him:
View attachment 916561

Technical fighter? These are NHL players. None of them are technical fighters and they all would get f***ing demolished by an actual fighter in an actual fight. It’s just based on size and strength because it’s mostly your balance on skates.

 

[Gniwder]

Technical fighter? These are NHL players. None of them are technical fighters and they all would get f***ing demolished by an actual fighter in an actual fight. It’s just based on size and strength because it’s mostly your balance on skates.

While it's not professional MMA, there's still technique involved. Marco doesn't even know where to grab a guy. Also, what does size and strength have to do with balance? Explain Raz, lol.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Why do people think he's gonna learn to put up points in the NHL just by being in the NHL? If it was that easy, we'd all be fighting on NHL ice right now instead of here.

For one, Kasper's ES point production last season was decent, better than or similar to not just a few but many 19-20yo prospects who went on to become productive NHL players. For two, the league is filled with middle six and even top line players who did not have notable rookie seasons or more and learned in the NHL to put up enough points to justify their spot in the lineup. For three, apart from point production, anybody can see the Wings could use some of the other things he brings on every shift. For four, a lot of players with similar profiles often take years to reach offensive peaks. The sooner Kasper gets started on that long runway, the better. For five, he's already better than some guys making an NHL salary and would make the team better. For six, Kasper actually did pretty well against a much bigger and experienced fighter. You learn by taking a few shots what to do and he'd get some advice from teammates about who to avoid. It's not about winning a fight, it's about showing up.

Kasper is actually the kind of player I suspect you like. If you'd stop being so caught up in being right about him you'd probably enjoy what he already is and might become. He's a pretty fun player to watch.

 

[heyfolks]

Take off to NOLA for the weekend and I come back to this nonsense?! Kasper fighting debate? Danielson actually fought?!?!?

NEITHER should EVER fight, but Kasper did hold his own.

Now, as the self appointed momerator, knock this crap off and clean your act up before your father gets home for the regular season game against the Rangers!

 

[TCNorthstars]

Take off to NOLA for the weekend and I come back to this nonsense?! Kasper fighting debate? Danielson actually fought?!?!?

NEITHER should EVER fight, but Kasper did hold his own.

Now, as the self appointed momerator, knock this crap off and clean your act up before your father gets home for the regular season game against the Rangers!

Danielson didn’t fight. He was in a scrum, but when fists started to fly in went into turtle mode.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

I like that kasper is willing to fight, but he shouldn’t be fighting. But that’s the goon league that is the AHL. Either way he should be in the NHL not having to fight to defend himself down there while plugs like Watson skate around and do nothing on our roster.

 

[RRhoads]

I made an AI podcast where two AIs are discussing the contents on the last page on this thread, and it is hilarious.

It's scarily authentic

 

[JediOrderPizza]

I made an AI podcast where two AIs are discussing the contents on the last page on this thread, and it is hilarious.

It's scarily authentic

View attachment 916934

 

[TCNorthstars]

I made an AI podcast where two AIs are discussing the contents on the last page on this thread, and it is hilarious.

It's scarily authentic

View attachment 916934

I saw somewhere that AI was getting dumber from interacting with humans.

 

[jaster]

I made an AI podcast where two AIs are discussing the contents on the last page on this thread, and it is hilarious.

It's scarily authentic

View attachment 916934

Oh em gee. Like, I love this, but also, I want to get off this planet now I don't want to be here anymore.

I do appreciate the three different pronunciations of Gniwder.

Nuder
Gewder
Gwidder

Almost disrespectful lol.

Is this on Apple Podcasts?