JTBF81
Registered User
Yep, it's also pretty telling when posters have no good counter when they just start posting the laughing emoji on responses they don't agree with, as though that's some mic drop lulz.
Prospect Info: 2022 31st Overall Pick | LW Isaac Howard
- Thread starter LastWordArmy
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RussianGuyovich
Hella Ennui
- Jan 2, 2007
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It was me. Wanna chat about it
We literally have posters here that are stratifying prospects to denigrate a top lightning prospect and calling him pouty and entitled for just doing the best he can for himself but yeah, good post.
Sky04
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2009
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He should do what he thinks is best for himself and likewise JBB should do what's best for the team if those don't align then so be it. All I'm gonna say is there's no lock on that top line LW spot so if he thinks there's a better opportunity and a better player to play with than Kucherov then take your chance.
Hockeyville USA
Registered User
My point from months ago was that he should get a look with Cirelli and Hagel for a couple games and then we assess if he's good enough to keep playing or if he needs significant time in the A. I don't think there's really any significant gap in talent or readiness between Howard and Geekie.
JTBF81
Registered User
Geekie is much closer to being ready for extended time imo. I expect Geekie to likely get a full time spot next season, and Howard to either get some games, like Geekie did this season, or start in Syracuse and then get called up if he does well.
Unlike some posters who want to continuously put words in my mouth hoping if they repeat the same two words just one more time it'll make my opinion on Howard match the narrative they're trying to erroneously spin, I've never thought Howard was pouting or felt entitled, only that I don't agree with nor value as high any player who would try and use that position to leverage their way onto a team. Howard and JBB need to each do what's best for themselves and the team, respectively. If Howard doesn't like the possibility that he may not get much, if any, playing time this season and therefore chooses to return to MSU, that's his choice. I don't see that being the case, but if it was to occur, it is what it is.
Unlike some posters who want to continuously put words in my mouth hoping if they repeat the same two words just one more time it'll make my opinion on Howard match the narrative they're trying to erroneously spin, I've never thought Howard was pouting or felt entitled, only that I don't agree with nor value as high any player who would try and use that position to leverage their way onto a team. Howard and JBB need to each do what's best for themselves and the team, respectively. If Howard doesn't like the possibility that he may not get much, if any, playing time this season and therefore chooses to return to MSU, that's his choice. I don't see that being the case, but if it was to occur, it is what it is.
Hockeyville USA
Registered User
High end NCAA players have the ability to use the leverage they have to get at least one NHL game, Just how the system is and there's nothing wrong with that IMHO. I see this as more of a BriseBois issue for not having enough cap space to sign, at worst, your number 2 prospect. I don't think it's a stretch to give a top end prospect a couple games look in the NHL at the end of the regular season, considering there are guys in the bottom 6 who are just fine to ok at best right now. Give them a rest before the real season starts.
If the Lightning management staff want to undervalue Howard, that would be quite a shame and could lead to a much worse outcome moving forward. I think/hope we'll get a resolution soon, but it's just a bad look to make a top prospect wait because you don't have cap space to sign him. The 2012 Rangers, another very good team, had cap space and roster space to get Kreider into the lineup, and that was in the playoffs, which I am not strongly advocating Howard play in (unless he shows well to end the regular season and develops instant chemistry).
Renopucker
Registered User
Like you, and as an MSU alum, I've watched Howard for awhile now. I'd say his offensive upside is way higher than Geekie. That said, that doesn't necessarily translate well to playoff hockey. I'm all for a couple of cups of coffee and lets see what we got.
The final calculus to me is that JBB has proven himself to be pretty ruthless, I don’t see his hand being forced here.
If we do not have the cap space, seems pretty cut and dry what the hold up is and the speculation isn’t necessary. Not yet anyways
If we do not have the cap space, seems pretty cut and dry what the hold up is and the speculation isn’t necessary. Not yet anyways
Hockeyville USA
Registered User
Hockeyville USA
Registered User
Yes, Geekie fits more projectably into a non scoring, playoff style role. But I'm not comfortable putting him in a shutdown role as a 20 year old rookie in the playoffs. Same goes for Howard, wouldn't want to put him in a defensive role, but Geekie's body type makes him able to play the playoff style slightly more easily right now. Howard, in the right situation, has far greater scoring upside than Geekie. But that's more of passenger on a top line with Kucherov and Point or Hagel and Cirelli where he finishes off their playmaking
Isn’t the bonuses the issue with that? We can’t give him his bonuses, we can sign him at the end of the season and eat a year off his ELC without ever allowing him to play an NHL game, which is the big point most of the people in the “shouldn’t play an NHL game yet” faction are making. Howard still gets what he wants.
Hockeyville USA
Registered User
I would like for the management staff to be at least somewhat transparent about what is going on so we know the ELC will be given and signed before the season ends. And if BriseBois is just not going to give it to him, then it's a shitshow of handling a top prospect IMHO.
I also think Howard wants the NHL game(s) to end the season like what every other high end NCAA player who signs at the end of their NCAA season gets
JTBF81
Registered User
No, it would indicate that, as with every other college prospect in their organization, they won't be told what they have to do to appease one of them. If the team was that concerned about bringing up talent, Geekie would be back by now, as he is tearing it up in the AHL. If they're aren't planning on giving him another shot this year, there's nothing to indicate Howard should be getting any. JBB had much bigger prizes to try and get to improve the team, so I don't think he's losing any sleep that they can't sign Howard for an extra couple weeks. Again, if Howard (and the rest of a very good MSU team) had played to his potential and not been a -2 against Cornell, maybe there wouldn't be much to discuss with him in Tampa yet. As I've said, he can get 6 minutes in the finale against the Rangers or maybe one game before that, then go to the Crunch. There's 0 room for him in the top 9, and Geekie would be a better fit at this time if Tampa wanted someone called up for the 4th.
Hockeyville USA
Registered User
How many Michigan State games have you watched over the past 2 years? I think you're underrated Howard's true talent level a bit. Other good teams have made space to sign and bring in their high end NCAA prospects at the end of a season. If this is all just a cap issue, then people have to stop acting like Howard isn't that good
RussianGuyovich
Hella Ennui
- Jan 2, 2007
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This is exhausting. I will just enjoy that we have a prospect even worth arguing about at all. Who cares.
MSU hockey star Isaac Howard reportedly in 'staring content' with Tampa Bay Lightning
Check out the latest update on whether star Isaac Howard will turn pro or return for another season at Michigan State
spartanswire.usatoday.com
I think everyone is stresing for notngkng
JTBF81
Registered User
It is a cap issue primarily. Geekie is also the better player as of now. If Cooper and the staff don't see the need for him in the lineup at this time based on current team success and current line deployment, then there's no chance that Howard is disrupting that in games that could decide the division.
I don't think JBB really cares what other teams do or how they handle their prospects. Howard wasn't that great in the most important game of their season, that I do know. He has a great shot and has improved defensively, but he's still not someone the team wants on the 4th line.
He'll get a game at the end so he'll sign his contract, and then see if he can help the Crunch in the playoffs. If he doesn't like the situation, he can choose not to sign and take his chances with another year at MSU and then sign where he likes. I'm pretty sure the situation was made clear to him, both when he was drafted and after his college season ended, that playing time was not guaranteed but that Tampa would work with him, within reason, to get him signed.
He's good, but not so great he deserves any special treatment or considerations imo. If Tampa isn't playing for the division and the cap works, then sure, give him an extra game, but if they are still going for it, then as little time as possible should be given to a player with no experience at this level in games of that importance imo.
Hockeyville USA
Registered User
The problem I see is that by not doing much to get him signed right after his season with State was done, you're sending the message to him that he isn't important. I don't like the precedent that sets moving forward personally with young players.
If he isn't that important, then BriseBois should have traded him at the deadline. If he is important, then BriseBois should have planned to have enough cap space to get him signed right after State was done.
For the millionth time, I just would have liked to do what was necessary to get Howard signed right away to avoid a headache.
JTBF81
Registered User
And JBB did what was best for the team in his view at the deadline. If Howard wants to take it that personally that he has to wait a couple of weeks (which I doubt he is), then that's another red flag imo. I have little doubt that he made this all clear to Howard and his camp. He owes no explanation to the fans. He has been a meticulous numbers guy his whole career, so I highly doubt he did anything that he hadn't intended to do in that regard. Getting him signed I'm sure is desired, but JBB doesn't seem the type to cave to a prospects conditions to do so.
Stammertime91
TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
It was uncomfortable but I grew them today. Thanks!
