unicornpig
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LOL, you dont think coaches have their favorites. you've never played sports then.
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GDT: 2022-23 season game 74 LA Kings vs Calgary Flames @6:00pm 3/28/23
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Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
AbsentMojo
F-ing get up and hunt! Cmon Todd!
- Apr 18, 2018
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You could say Iafallo is eating up Kaliyev's minutes and PP position. They dont seem willing to try Kaliyev in the top 9 over anyone already there... therefore he rots. They dont value his skillset on the 4th line so he cycles in to stay 'warm'. Thats my take on it. I dont agree with it, but Iafallo is a 'made' guy on the team will never get demoted.. same with Moore after signing his contract.
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2019 - 2020 first year for TM, he played Kempe (22), Lizotte (21) Roy (24) Amadio (23), Wagner (22) all in 60 plus games
2020-2021 2nd year for TM, Kempe (23), Vilardi (21), JAD (20) Grundstrom (22) Andersson (21) Bjornofoot (19) Lizotte (23) in 34 plus games (out of 56)
2021-2022 3rd year for TM Kaliyev (20), Durzi (22) Grundstrom (23), Kupari (21) Byfield (20) Bjornfoot (20) etc
Like I said, it's a criticism that's not based in reality
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
LOL
2019 was also the start of the rebuild....
the following players were on the 2018 roster but not on 2019
Kovalchuk, Martinez, Forbort, Thompson, Phaneuf, Hagelin, Fantenberg,and Pearson so yeah roster spots were created
BTW- Kempe was a 3 year vet in 2019 having already played 187 NHL games
We also brought in more vets and
Bjornfot isn't on the roster
Grundstrom is on and off the game day roster
Andersson is in the minors
Bjornfot is playing less and less
Walker and Edler are playing over younger players despite their obvious on ice struggles
bland
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Iafallo is a much better player who does a variety of things that help the team - all of which you refuse to notice or value.
If you want to win, you play Iafallo 100 times out of a 100 over Kaliyev.
If you want Kaliyev in the lineup, you don't trade for Arvidsson or Fiala or you don't convert first round centers into offensive wingers. Kaliyev can't compete with Kempe, Fiala, Arvidsson, Moore, Iafallo, Vilardi and Byfield. He's at the bottom of that list. Hell, Grundstrom is more effective as well.
Kaliyev isn't playing because the organization wants to win now and he isn't as helpful to that cause as their other options.
bland
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Nice post. Want some help?
Coaches play the guys they think will do the most to accomplish their goals. The debate here isn't if Kaliyev is a "favorite", its if Kaliyev helps more than the other options.
Answer is no, he doesn't.
If the Kings wanted to follow thru on the promise of their rebuild, then Kaliyev should be getting top 6 minutes. But they have decided to go for it, and are doing pretty damn well doing so. Its not the path I would have taken, but its where they are, and the decision to use Kaliyev sparingly has, in fact, worked out well.
They don't need more offense, they have plenty of it. Unfortunately that is all Kaliyev can really do for you, so he is going to see spot duty until he provides more OR the better options fail - or get hurt.
AbsentMojo
F-ing get up and hunt! Cmon Todd!
- Apr 18, 2018
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That's debatable. But if you look at some of my other posts re this situation, I only made the case for Kaliyev being a permanent fixture on the 4th line and as PP specialist not advocating he plays over Iafallo necessarily (except on the PP). Iafallo is definitely a versatile player and can slot in like a utility infielder in lots of situations. But Kaliyev is still developing and I think has Tofolli upside - totally different types of players. Kaliyev's PP points/60 is close to top in the league. That alone justifies he gets a regular shift somewhere while he continues to develop/recover from his broken foot.
Sol
Smile
- Jun 30, 2017
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There is not much pressure to do anything with Bjornfot, really. He's a solid, if unremarkable defenseman. He can easily slot into the 3rd pair and do an admirable job. He will play above his contract value for you. He can handle 2nd line duties in a pinch.
If another team wants him in a trade, he's not untouchable so he can bring you value there as well. The team certainly won't give him away, and he's not stagnating, he looked pretty good in the games he's played this year and seems to be fully healed from his injury from last season. Just a numbers game. The team was worried after what happened to the D last year and brought back Edler. It was the wrong move, but it made sense at the time. It happens.
If another team wants him in a trade, he's not untouchable so he can bring you value there as well. The team certainly won't give him away, and he's not stagnating, he looked pretty good in the games he's played this year and seems to be fully healed from his injury from last season. Just a numbers game. The team was worried after what happened to the D last year and brought back Edler. It was the wrong move, but it made sense at the time. It happens.
bland
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Its a long time criticism of every coach.
Fact is that Anderson, Durzi, Byfield, Kupari, Vilardi, Moore, Grundstrom, Lizotte and Roy were/are all young players who stepped in and (except for Durzi) provided well-rounded games that earned the trust of their coach to play in important situations during MacLellan's tenure.
Kaliyev hasn't. Is that because MacLellan "doesn't play kids" as a rule, or could it just possibly be that he is looking for more than the one dimension that Kaliyev offers at this stage of his career?
Perhaps his conditioning isn't up to par yet. Maybe its that Kaliyev responds well to sitting then typically slides back into a comfort zone before taking a seat again. Maybe he has practice issues. Could be any number of things. Its not just going to be a whim.
If the team was going to place the rebuild as its priority, I highly doubt that you would see the same personnel decisions.
I don't think its debatable at all, not one bit.
And I wasn't basing that on your Kaliyev thoughts, but rather the litany of anti-Iafallo posts you make.
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
GDT: - 2022-23 season game 74 LA Kings vs Calgary Flames @6:00pm 3/28/23
LOL, you dont think coaches have their favorites. you've never played sports then.
AbsentMojo
F-ing get up and hunt! Cmon Todd!
- Apr 18, 2018
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Yes we all have our litanies yours being Faber vs Fiala
I think it boils down to this: you value two-way players more (thus your criticisms of Fiala and Kaliyev), and I value offensive skillset more than you (not overall). I do agree with you on some points re Fiala and Durzi introduced some chaotic / fast break energy to the teams psyche. But I disagree that is a big fault for a forward like Fiala yet I do think its a huge fault for defender. In regards to my criticisms of Iafallo: when I look at his salary and what he provides I think he is bad value contract. The team has certain roles that need filling. Each line should have a glue guy like Iafallo that will do dirty work to dig pucks out in corners, work hard on the forecheck,etc. Byfield serves that role on the 1st line, Moore on the 2nd line, and Lizotte is that guy on the 3rd line. To me Iafallo is a redundancy you dont need esp at 4mil when you have needs on defense and other parts of the roster. Thats where my criticism stems from. If he was making Lizotte money I probably wouldnt say a thing other than maybe he needs to be on the 4th line.
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
- Jul 1, 2003
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For some reason a post of mine got deleted, even though it was a very brief post.
But what's the defense for Spence?
Everyone, including McLellan, has biases. I do. You do. To say that there is no bias or favorites just isn't realistic. I'm not saying McLellan is a bad person or bad coach, but the handling of Bjornfot, Kaliyev, and Spence all suggests there is an inherent preference of vets and putting out the people he trusts most to win a game. Most likely, McLellan just knows the other players as people, better, and thus it's easier to go to them. There have been discussions in the past of some awkwardness with Kaliyev, so there may be a layer of relatability (and thus trust) that's missing.
I agree the Kings already have offensive weapons. But they didn't play Kaliyev a whole lot while Fiala was out with injury. It would have been a good time to try to fill that void.
I strongly feel a degree of bias you're not acknowledging is playing a part in McLellan's decision-making. It doesn't make him bad or an idiot (well, others may say that). It just makes him normal.
Sol
Smile
- Jun 30, 2017
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@bland I know you’re not trying to be intentionally misleading but even with Durzi, Todd puts him on a ton in moments of the game he shouldn’t be in.
This proves that Todd has his biases as KP stated, but that doesn’t mean his beliefs hold up when challenged.
Durzi is a nightmare defensively
Edler is a nightmare in all aspects
Spence is lightyears ahead of both said players and Bjornfot while being painfully…bland, still is better than edler.
Kaliyev is LIGHTYEARS better than any of the players he gets sat out for. This whole nonsense about his defense game is not realistic. Kaliyev doesn’t bleed goals when he’s on the ice, he also scores a lot too. However Durzi who is a defenseman and a terrible one at that doesn’t lose his spot, but a forward who at worst is mediocre at defense but great at offense rides pine?
Explain the logic because if we’re talking about Kaliyev being sat out because of his defense then why on EARTH is Durzi playing at all?
This proves that Todd has his biases as KP stated, but that doesn’t mean his beliefs hold up when challenged.
Durzi is a nightmare defensively
Edler is a nightmare in all aspects
Spence is lightyears ahead of both said players and Bjornfot while being painfully…bland, still is better than edler.
Kaliyev is LIGHTYEARS better than any of the players he gets sat out for. This whole nonsense about his defense game is not realistic. Kaliyev doesn’t bleed goals when he’s on the ice, he also scores a lot too. However Durzi who is a defenseman and a terrible one at that doesn’t lose his spot, but a forward who at worst is mediocre at defense but great at offense rides pine?
Explain the logic because if we’re talking about Kaliyev being sat out because of his defense then why on EARTH is Durzi playing at all?
LOL he still played 6-8 YOUNG PLAYERS.....since he started.....
Again the narrative that he doesn't play young players is fantasyland bullshit...
BTW That wasn't Lias Andersson that was Mikey Andersson...
But literally if the argument is, he doesn't play young players because he is playing Walker over Spence......sure, you win....it's a stupid argument to make, but sure...it's true.
And yet he as no problem sending out Byfield, Vilardi, Andersson (who is still young) Durzi, etc....so which is it, preference of vets, or is he putting out the people he thinks he can trust to win a game?
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
bland
Registered User
- Jul 1, 2004
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Its not bias, that's the same sort of thing we just talked about with the pony/dimensional thing the other day.
Its decision making, not bias. Kaliyev has something like 13 even strength points in almost 50 games this year. He doesn't contribute much beyond bombing away on the PP. And that is very effective. I think this years most shocking stat is that Danault has more PP points than Kopitar or Kempe - a lot of that is due to Kaliyev's shot and the defensive respect it commands.
Who do you take out or demote for the guy who is frankly less effective at even strength than the other options?
You and I agree that they took a hard left to contending now instead of staying on the developmental path like they should have done. But that's over now, Blake made his choice after a couple of years with having feet in both directions at once. And while I would have played the long game, we cannot deny the success they are having with the route they chose. And when you go for it now you have to go hard and put development to the back burner. The Kings have better options than Kaliyev if they want to win now.
If anything I would bet that Arthur has been given some clear advice as to how to earn that trust. Its not just going to be a case of him sitting around wondering.
Spence and Bjornfot are in similar situations, but are locked out by contracts above them. In a vacuum both should be playing as they are "better" than those who are, but those contracts are very real and have to be considered. MacLellan spoke to that very topic earlier this year - could be some tough love going on there as well.
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
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Decision making isn't driven solely by bias, but you can't deny it's a factor. Kaliyev averages 9:22 of even strength time on ice per game. You don't think 13 even strength points in 50 games, playing almost predominantly on the fourth line, doesn't factor in?
As far as "demotion", I think I've been pretty consistent that the Kings would have benefited from using the depth of their forwards earlier this year.
Edit: realized I forgot Fiala in my lineup and not going to rewrite it right now
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Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Alex Iafallo = Kike Hernandez just makes me want to keep him more, how dare you
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LA Kings: new GM wanted -- inquire within
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