GDT: 2022-23 season game 28 LA Kings vs Ottawa Senators @4:00pm 12/6/22

[Raccoon Jesus]

Interesting...I could have sworn the #1 'problem' the Kings had last year was scoring goals. Finished #20 overall in that department.

Yet today, 28 games in, they are #2 overall in GF. What part of 'same shit as last year' does that fall under?

The one where they still have a negative goal differential because they can't outscore their problems at defense, goaltending, and special teams.

Of course nuance is lost on you but the answer was so easy I figured might as well give you more rope to hang yourself for entertainment

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

The one where they still have a negative goal differential because they can't outscore their problems at defense, goaltending, and special teams.

Of course nuance is lost on you but the answer was so easy I figured might as well give you more rope to hang yourself for entertainment

That's strange, cause I didn't think defense, goaltending and special teams (minus PP) were problems last year either. They might be issues this year, but they don't fall under 'same shit as last year', now do they?

As far as your 'rope to hang yourself' comment....you must think I take this message board bullshit way more seriously...but I don't. Kinda might be why I don't have 55k posts.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That's strange, cause I didn't think defense, goaltending and special teams (minus PP) were problems last year either. They might be issues this year, but they don't fall under 'same shit as last year', now do they?

As far as your 'rope to hang yourself' comment....you must think I take this message board bullshit way more seriously...but I don't. Kinda might be why I don't have 55k posts.

No, of course you didn't.

 

[BigKing]

Skilled, PPG players?? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL -- absolutely horrible, putrid take. Congrats.

Top 5 LWs in scoring this season are Robertson, Tkachuk, Kaprizov, Fiala and Panarin. The latter two are both on their 3rd team now.

It's generally going to cost you more to get a PPG center or whatever the equivalent of that is on defense than it is a winger. Blake must have thought so as well since he has used only 10 out of 43 draft picks on wingers:

Two in 2nd Round
Three in the 3rd Round
One in the 5th
Two in the 6th
Two in the 7th

The odds of being an NHL player drop pretty hard the later in the draft you go. He even gambled on the clearly more talented winger in Kaliyev by taking a limited upside but "safe" defenseman in Bjornfot. He values center so much more than wing that he'll just keep taking centers and convert them to wing if needed because the potential of them actually being centers outweighs just taking a wing.

He obviously feels that you can get a goalie easier as well based on his draft record. Toughness too. Hope he's right on both of those as well.

 

[BigKing]

That's strange, cause I didn't think defense, goaltending and special teams (minus PP) were problems last year either. They might be issues this year, but they don't fall under 'same shit as last year', now do they?

As far as your 'rope to hang yourself' comment....you must think I take this message board bullshit way more seriously...but I don't. Kinda might be why I don't have 55k posts.

If you kept your pace up over the past 12 months or so and been here since 2008 like RJ, you might be at 55k as well.

I mean, he does post a lot but you're a volume poster right now for sure. Coincidentally, it is happening at the same time as T-Mac's system of outshoot the other team but still lose.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

The one where they still have a negative goal differential because they can't outscore their problems at defense, goaltending, and special teams.

Of course nuance is lost on you but the answer was so easy I figured might as well give you more rope to hang yourself for entertainment

That wasn't the argument though, last year, this team was one of the top defenses, but couldn't score on a mini mite with a goddamn marble.......

This year....they can score on Roy, Hasek and Brodeur with a beachball...but they got the damn minimites in net.....

Completely different issue, you can argue it was foreseeable, I disagree given that we were missing Doughty the entire year, getting him back should not have a defensive top team....get remarkably worse....

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Top 5 LWs in scoring this season are Robertson, Tkachuk, Kaprizov, Fiala and Panarin. The latter two are both on their 3rd team now.

It's generally going to cost you more to get a PPG center or whatever the equivalent of that is on defense than it is a winger. Blake must have thought so as well since he has used only 10 out of 43 draft picks on wingers:

Two in 2nd Round
Three in the 3rd Round
One in the 5th
Two in the 6th
Two in the 7th

The odds of being an NHL player drop pretty hard the later in the draft you go. He even gambled on the clearly more talented winger in Kaliyev by taking a limited upside but "safe" defenseman in Bjornfot. He values center so much more than wing that he'll just keep taking centers and convert them to wing if needed because the potential of them actually being centers outweighs just taking a wing.

He obviously feels that you can get a goalie easier as well based on his draft record. Toughness too. Hope he's right on both of those as well.

That's a yes and no situation though.....

How many players like Fiala are available, Yes Panarin is on his 3rd time.....but CHI had a cap crunch, and I believe he went to FA and signed with NYR? (could be wrong there) Fiala, same thing, if there wasn't a cap issue, you think he would have been traded?

Wingers like the ones you mentioned DO NOT become available often....when they do, it's almost 90% of the time, something else, cap, fit, request, don't lose for anything....etc...

To me, one of the key things for a GM to be successful, is to be in the position to take advantage of those situations when they do pop up......if you can do that, you will win more times than not.

 

[Lt Dan]

Y’all getting spicy with the personal digs.

Your mom keeps a tidy house

 

[bland]

The one where they still have a negative goal differential because they can't outscore their problems at defense, goaltending, and special teams.

Of course nuance is lost on you but the answer was so easy I figured might as well give you more rope to hang yourself for entertainment

Its not even nuance. 3rd place is 3rd place is 3rd place. Can't ask someone with their eyes closed to read the shit in block letters above the fine print.

That's strange, cause I didn't think defense, goaltending and special teams (minus PP) were problems last year either. They might be issues this year, but they don't fall under 'same shit as last year', now do they?

As far as your 'rope to hang yourself' comment....you must think I take this message board bullshit way more seriously...but I don't. Kinda might be why I don't have 55k posts.

Nope, you have just the one that always reads as"derp", but its been posted 3k plus times.

 

[bland]

That's strange, cause I didn't think defense, goaltending and special teams (minus PP) were problems last year either. They might be issues this year, but they don't fall under 'same shit as last year', now do they?

As far as your 'rope to hang yourself' comment....you must think I take this message board bullshit way more seriously...but I don't. Kinda might be why I don't have 55k posts.

And defense and goaltending were most definitely problems last year, especially in the playoffs.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

And defense and goaltending were most definitely problems last year, especially in the playoffs.

Kings were #8 overall in GA last year.....this is just stupid now, I feel like you are just making shit up to make the Kings look bad. Not surprised, of course. *derp*

 

[FeartheFur]

Last year they couldn’t score especially on the PP. this year they can. I don’t remember the Kings scoring like this since they had the Pallfy-Deadmarsh-Allison line. It’s crazy the D has collapsed. Been a good D team the last decade.

 

[ibleedkings]

Your mom keeps a tidy house

Welcome back Lt

 

[King'sPawn]

Your mom keeps a tidy house

Yeah. That maid outfit I bought her really helps!

 

[BigKing]

That's a yes and no situation though.....

How many players like Fiala are available, Yes Panarin is on his 3rd time.....but CHI had a cap crunch, and I believe he went to FA and signed with NYR? (could be wrong there) Fiala, same thing, if there wasn't a cap issue, you think he would have been traded?

Wingers like the ones you mentioned DO NOT become available often....when they do, it's almost 90% of the time, something else, cap, fit, request, don't lose for anything....etc...

To me, one of the key things for a GM to be successful, is to be in the position to take advantage of those situations when they do pop up......if you can do that, you will win more times than not.

I didn't even mention Tkachuk on that list who was just traded. Not necessarily "easy" when you are sending two good players the other way but a 1st round pick and a guy who goes 1st round in a redraft while then giving out a high-cap seven-year deal sign unseen isn't necessarily "easy" either. I think the point is that if you have the assets, these type of guys seem to be available. Debrincat is another one.

There always seems to be a cap crunch or a team deciding to blow it up. Or you have a Panarin or Johnny Hockey who decide to leave.

I agree that being ready to take advantage of a situation is a key part of a rebuilding GMs job: all of the picks and prospects acquired by simultaneously sucking and trading away good NHL players for a few years will not all form a future 12F/6D core like some on here put together.

Blake has done that with RV, Danault and now Fiala. Some don't like the Danault cap hit--or more so the contract length--and some really didn't want to lose Faber but there isn't much argument about the player cost for these: the Kings did not lose one roster player in these trades and are a better team than the one in 2021 because of it. It gets more in to the timing of deciding to use some of the dry powder in the form of moving a 1st, top prospect and long-term cap of like $13MM when excluding RV as that isn't a real long-term commitment. Regardless, guys always come available for some reason or another. Doesn't mean it is a slam dunk you get them over all the other teams but, again, that is another reason why drafting/development is so important.

You can look at Danault like DL getting Zeus and Fiala is the Ryan Smyth move. Thing is DL added these guys to a roster with its best players being very young with their entire futures ahead of them while Blake has added them while said best players are close to their retirement tours. Lombardi knew he had a stud 1C, 1D and 1G while Blake still has those same guys in the same role 13-14 years later and the jury is still out on his future 1C and 1D. Some believe figure that out first before adding all the known quantities because what if this is what we wind up with: the black hole.

Team building isn't easy. This place was ready to run DL out of town. I was like "Get Kovy! Get Vinny!!" because I was tired of missing the playoffs for seven seasons: especially while going to nearly every home game during that period. I'm glad he didn't "win" those free agent prizes. I just kind of feel like Blake is doing a paint-by-numbers DL impersonation...like someone covering a song and removing the soul of it.

- Accumulate lots of picks and prospects by moving nearly everyone with value
- Make sure those are high picks by sucking
- Once you have so many picks and prospects, start adding vets while trying to do it from a position of strength (cap space, picks, RHD prospects)

He just doesn't have the foundation or have that foundation prove it can be legit like DL had with 11/23/8/32. Of great concern though is DL seemed to have an idea of what type of team he wanted to build. We are in T-Mac's fourth season and he is talking about trying to figure out what the identity of this team is. Scoring is fun but this team is a sieve and are super soft. Not a killer in sight when looking at the pipeline. 30 centers drafted. This is the main issue: he seems to be following a similar timeline for the rebuild but he doesn't get that a culture was being built even during those tank years under DL.

 

[HookKing]

Pandas are not known to fling poo, but maybe I'll change my name to "Angry Chimpanzee".

No need to go that far -- just make sure you one of these baby's hooked up before entering this forum.

 

[lumbergh]

No need to go that far -- just make sure you one of these baby's hooked up before entering this forum.
View attachment 618457

Oh my bullshit detector is ALWAYS ON.

 

[Sol]

There is some cringe worthy posts again thanks to our resident poop flinger. But in regards to the sens game if Copley keeps it up and the goaltending gets better, the kings will start winning more games. And if Copley shows to be competent then the kings just need to acquire a LD and they’re set.

The sens game is nothing to celebrate. Let the Kings keep up this performance, not even the result but the performance for 5 games before Todd’s concubines come out for a victory lap.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I didn't even mention Tkachuk on that list who was just traded. Not necessarily "easy" when you are sending two good players the other way but a 1st round pick and a guy who goes 1st round in a redraft while then giving out a high-cap seven-year deal sign unseen isn't necessarily "easy" either. I think the point is that if you have the assets, these type of guys seem to be available. Debrincat is another one.

There always seems to be a cap crunch or a team deciding to blow it up. Or you have a Panarin or Johnny Hockey who decide to leave.

I agree that being ready to take advantage of a situation is a key part of a rebuilding GMs job: all of the picks and prospects acquired by simultaneously sucking and trading away good NHL players for a few years will not all form a future 12F/6D core like some on here put together.

Blake has done that with RV, Danault and now Fiala. Some don't like the Danault cap hit--or more so the contract length--and some really didn't want to lose Faber but there isn't much argument about the player cost for these: the Kings did not lose one roster player in these trades and are a better team than the one in 2021 because of it. It gets more in to the timing of deciding to use some of the dry powder in the form of moving a 1st, top prospect and long-term cap of like $13MM when excluding RV as that isn't a real long-term commitment. Regardless, guys always come available for some reason or another. Doesn't mean it is a slam dunk you get them over all the other teams but, again, that is another reason why drafting/development is so important.

You can look at Danault like DL getting Zeus and Fiala is the Ryan Smyth move. Thing is DL added these guys to a roster with its best players being very young with their entire futures ahead of them while Blake has added them while said best players are close to their retirement tours. Lombardi knew he had a stud 1C, 1D and 1G while Blake still has those same guys in the same role 13-14 years later and the jury is still out on his future 1C and 1D. Some believe figure that out first before adding all the known quantities because what if this is what we wind up with: the black hole.

Team building isn't easy. This place was ready to run DL out of town. I was like "Get Kovy! Get Vinny!!" because I was tired of missing the playoffs for seven seasons: especially while going to nearly every home game during that period. I'm glad he didn't "win" those free agent prizes. I just kind of feel like Blake is doing a paint-by-numbers DL impersonation...like someone covering a song and removing the soul of it.

- Accumulate lots of picks and prospects by moving nearly everyone with value
- Make sure those are high picks by sucking
- Once you have so many picks and prospects, start adding vets while trying to do it from a position of strength (cap space, picks, RHD prospects)

He just doesn't have the foundation or have that foundation prove it can be legit like DL had with 11/23/8/32. Of great concern though is DL seemed to have an idea of what type of team he wanted to build. We are in T-Mac's fourth season and he is talking about trying to figure out what the identity of this team is. Scoring is fun but this team is a sieve and are super soft. Not a killer in sight when looking at the pipeline. 30 centers drafted. This is the main issue: he seems to be following a similar timeline for the rebuild but he doesn't get that a culture was being built even during those tank years under DL.

Agree with you to a point, but it's not easy for one team, to get an 8-11-32 as a core....at 24 years old, or whatever the age was, you literally have to work with what you get, what Blake got....was a mixed bag of nuts....and if Byfield/Clarke/Turcotte/Kaliyev don't pan out......it's not the Danault or Fiala signing that does it, it's those players.....and on those players....you can blame scouting/development all you want, and they may or may not have valid arguments...but we are nowhere near that ledge.....

This team is a sieve and absolutely holds super soft birthday parties.....but tell me, going into the playoffs, did ANYONE think that last year? If not....why not? (hint: it's because they weren't) and the only thing that changed on the back end is Doughty and Walker came back, and Bjornfoot started in the minors with Spence, and Stecher and Maata were gone, and if the argument is that Maata and Stecher were the glue....tell me now, I will stop....

Management saw this team couldn't score last year......got a scorer....kept the same defense.....and something else happened, they turned into the 93 Kings....minus a Gretzky......anyone here says they saw that coming is a liar.....

 

[johnjm22]

That was probably one of the best goaltending performances we've had all season.

 

[BigKing]

Agree with you to a point, but it's not easy for one team, to get an 8-11-32 as a core....at 24 years old, or whatever the age was, you literally have to work with what you get, what Blake got....was a mixed bag of nuts....and if Byfield/Clarke/Turcotte/Kaliyev don't pan out......it's not the Danault or Fiala signing that does it, it's those players.....and on those players....you can blame scouting/development all you want, and they may or may not have valid arguments...but we are nowhere near that ledge.....

This team is a sieve and absolutely holds super soft birthday parties.....but tell me, going into the playoffs, did ANYONE think that last year? If not....why not? (hint: it's because they weren't) and the only thing that changed on the back end is Doughty and Walker came back, and Bjornfoot started in the minors with Spence, and Stecher and Maata were gone, and if the argument is that Maata and Stecher were the glue....tell me now, I will stop....

Management saw this team couldn't score last year......got a scorer....kept the same defense.....and something else happened, they turned into the 93 Kings....minus a Gretzky......anyone here says they saw that coming is a liar.....

They were soft last year too. Been a major problem since Tkachuk elbowed Doughty and exposed that the culture had been lost. They still don't have it back.

 

[KINGS17]

Your mom keeps a tidy house

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

They were soft last year too. Been a major problem since Tkachuk elbowed Doughty and exposed that the culture had been lost. They still don't have it back.

Meh, soft/strong, as I said before that definition is changing as the game is changing,

That has nothing to do with how they were defensively

 

[Statto]

I'm not supporting Bland's analysis of the trade; however, I will say that it is extremely early to say that the Kings won the trade seeing as the two assets going the other way were a pick and a prospect. Early returns say the Kings but we'd be in deep shit if the early returns weren't in the Kings favor.

I like Fiala. I actually think Bland likes Fiala: he just doesn't like the timing of the addition and the roster construction. As a fan and STH'er, it sure is fun to watch him stick handle and make wow plays. He's really fun and he drives offense: especially at even strength.

Fiala has a shit playoff history so far. If the Kings make the playoffs and he sucks again, this place won't be so thrilled about him.

This place loved Lucic during the 2016 season.

This is fair.

For me it ultimately becomes about how Faber develops because to me it doesn’t matter who gets taken with the first rounder. The pick is the opportunity to draft at a certain position, what comes with that are the odds to draft a good player. Given both sides will almost certainly take a different player at that spot (unless it’s a consensus pick in the 1-3 range) I don’t care who the player ends up being. So, if Minnesota go off the board and take a 40th ranked player that turns into a 40 goal guy it wouldn’t change how I rate the trade, given we’d have taken a two way grinder with the pick (I’m joking before anyone cries).

So I think if Faber becomes a genuine top 3/4 guy on a contender, it becomes a fairly even trade for me as long as it’s not a top 10 pick. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Statto]

Just to add, if anyone is serious about supporting a contending team they should take a step back from the highlights and look at the actual impact the Fiala trade has had thus far.

Same position in the standings, same problems preventing the team from progress, same old shit as last year. More goals in both directions. Adding Fiala was like eating your dessert before dinner.

You can add the right player but at the wrong time. Skilled wingers are the absolute easiest thing in the league to acquire. Hell, the Kings dressed 7 offensive wingers in their top 9 last night. This team has massive structural issues that will limit their potential. A player like Faber enhances your structure. Makes your team more responsible, more determined, harder to play against. If the Kings were a year or two further along in the rebuild sure, I would get behind it, but this deal didn't solve any issues, it just hid them behind goals.

It could also be argued - easily argued - that the addition of Fiala changed the approach of the team from a more defensively sound unit to a more offensively oriented careless group that doesn't have the leadership skills to merge the two.

His acquisition allows other less skilled wingers to be moved out by being traded or unsigned as they deem the youth to be ready to step up. We can certainly debate how quickly or slowly that should happen but Fiala is certainly a key piece that fits for a few years. It certainly means that a trade like moving Kempe or Arvidsson (for example only - I’m not advocating them specifically) to get a goaltender or a LHD won’t have the same impact or risk it would of with last years roster.