2022-23 Roster Discussion

[LowLefty]

Right now that line has 3 shooters, one quasi-digger in NN and one sometimes carrier in KFC.

Maybe swap Ehlers in for KFC? Then you have an uber-carrier in Nik, distributors / shooters and some truculence in NN and 55.

And KFC as an actual shooting threat on an otherwise somewhat neutered 2nd line.

If you’re concerned about Nik”S ice time, chuck KFC out for some extra shifts with 55/62. He can handle it.

If they feel the need to rebalance the lines, that's another reason -
I was assuming the poster was referring to performance and the need to shake it up.
I'm all for looking or the best fit

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

Puck carrier, not Scheifele-carrier.

If Ehlers is skating like he has been his last two games, then I definitely agree with what you're saying.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

I wonder with Scheifele, if you'll see an inflection point - starting this weekend - as his career continues on. I'd not seen that from him, the level of disappointment he had with his mistake (or whatever you'd call it) last game. One would think that shows (perhaps) a sign of accountability. Even though the team played well and lost, that specific moment stuck with me - Scheifele on the bench - that perhaps better things are coming as we close out the season.

Maybe he can get back to being that guy that trained with Conor McDavid years ago, and was looking for whatever edge he could get to improve his game. Even if he's turning 30 in a few days, I don't think it's too late for him to make another jump.

 

[voyageur]

I wonder with Scheifele, if you'll see an inflection point - starting this weekend - as his career continues on. I'd not seen that from him, the level of disappointment he had with his mistake (or whatever you'd call it) last game. One would think that shows (perhaps) a sign of accountability. Even though the team played well and lost, that specific moment stuck with me - Scheifele on the bench - that perhaps better things are coming as we close out the season.

Maybe he can get back to being that guy that trained with Conor McDavid years ago, and was looking for whatever edge he could get to improve his game. Even if he's turning 30 in a few days, I don't think it's too late for him to make another jump.

I think Scheifele in on board with Bones. Where Rick Bowness has succeeded in making him a better hockey player, like he did with Josh Morrissey. Seeing Cole Perfetti improve his game to get to Scheifele's level is something that stood out to me this year, in a leadership role.

I think that 55 and 44 as leaders are the future of this team, if Chevy can convince him to stay long enough to break Ducky's records. Acquiring Niedrreiter seems like the kind of move you make to appease your stars where they are looking for someone who can finish with them, from the dirty areas. 55 and 81 haven't really taken off, but that's not to say they can't. Having 2 shooters who can make plays is always dangerous.

 

[DRW204]

Barron for Wheeler. Double the speed of that line. Make it happen, Bones.

Also, what has KFC done lately to keep him on the top line at all costs? Puzzling.

Looking forward to a new, bold, brilliantly retooled PP1.

wheeler is better/more productive than barron.
wheeler and lowry hardly ever works

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

I think Scheifele in on board with Bones. Where Rick Bowness has succeeded in making him a better hockey player, like he did with Josh Morrissey. Seeing Cole Perfetti improve his game to get to Scheifele's level is something that stood out to me this year, in a leadership role.

I think that 55 and 44 as leaders are the future of this team, if Chevy can convince him to stay long enough to break Ducky's records. Acquiring Niedrreiter seems like the kind of move you make to appease your stars where they are looking for someone who can finish with them, from the dirty areas. 55 and 81 haven't really taken off, but that's not to say they can't. Having 2 shooters who can make plays is always dangerous.

For the length of the Jets 2.0, Scheifele has been my favorite player, though I did sour on him last year. I've been frustrated with his body language, and his waning lack of focus and desire at times (at least that's how I see it). I thought for sure by this point in his career, he's have passed 40 goals or 100 points in a season by now; I know that they're just qualifiers but it's something to build on. Personally, outside of Selanne and the key players on the WHA Jets, I've never liked the way we've treated our frontline scorers. Outside of a couple of friends growing up, I never heard anyone say too many positive things whenever the name Hawerchuk came up. Which is too bad, he's my favorite Jet.

I've never been a big fan of the KC and Scheifele pairing, primarily because I don't think their personalities mesh; KC seems to be in his own world (off the ice, on the bench). They also always seem to hit a bit of a wall after a game or two, and go from being creative, to regressing to a more of a meat-and-potatoes kind of a game.

I've also wondered too, if KC would perform just as good with 2nd or 3rd line centers, provided that he's flanked by a half-decent numbers guy (Wheeler); or someone with decent enough potential to score more than they do (Barron). They might create the right kind of room for him (physically), and he for them with his speed; which seems to be locked in a tractor beam over the past 20 games. Whatever combination of Namestnikov/Lowry at center, Barron/Wheeler/Appleton on the right wing; though preferrably Namestnikov (while PLD is out) with Barron. I don't think I'm the only person that sees some life in Barron's offense, and I wonder if you had someone at center who's more willing to bang/bump people, that a KC <-> Barron pairing could materialize; even though they're both wingers. I also can't ignore that KC has drastically improved as a passer; overlooking the bad drop passes that are plaguing the roster over the past while.

Conversely, I'm always confused as to why the KC/PLD/Barron line never galvanized. KC and PLD certainly have had sustained periods where they were rolling, but maybe KC with X and Barron on the 3rd line (with an uptick in minutes) would make that wanting 3 scoring lines work; they just need a center like Lowry to create enough space and do the dirty work down low. We always assume that KC must play with a creative center, but this isn't two years ago either; evident in a number of instances vs Montreal. He might actually be a better playmaker than goal scorer at this point in his career.

Speaking of Barron, while I'm intrigued by his newfound plus ability that came out of nowhere, where has he been all year? We could have used him! Was he saving himself for the playoffs? Is he one of those guys?

 

[voyageur]

wheeler is better/more productive than barron.
wheeler and lowry hardly ever worksa

I like the checking line the way it is. They may not score a lot, but they sure make it hard to play against them, and do their fair share to keep momentum and possession in the Jets favour.

I get the sense that Ehlers and Wheeler would like to play together, the way the team is constructed. Both had to rehab from injury together. In a way they offset each other, speed with size. If Namestnikov can play a game that complements them, maybe the Jets find a way to win without Dubois. Even put him on the 4th line like Maurice did in the playoffs in 2021. To push him.

Taking those right hand draws, I wonder if you give a guy like Wheeler a chance on the PK, cut his PP minutes, since he has better metrics than Stenlund on the PK. That's letting a leader lead, and the one area where icing the puck is a good thing.

I still hope we see the 7 d-man alignment. I think of the Kings game where Pionk got beat, and the next shift Bones puts out Dillon and Samberg to make sure the team doesn't lose momentum. With 6 d-men you have to grind through what you have, can't really change your alignment situationally.

In terms of what one 4th liner brings vs. a 7th defenseman, I wonder if sacrificing one forward for a d-man who can have a greater impact wouldn't help at this point.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

I like the checking line the way it is. They may not score a lot, but they sure make it hard to play against them, and do their fair share to keep momentum and possession in the Jets favour.

I get the sense that Ehlers and Wheeler would like to play together, the way the team is constructed. Both had to rehab from injury together. In a way they offset each other, speed with size. If Namestnikov can play a game that complements them, maybe the Jets find a way to win without Dubois. Even put him on the 4th line like Maurice did in the playoffs in 2021. To push him.

Taking those right hand draws, I wonder if you give a guy like Wheeler a chance on the PK, cut his PP minutes, since he has better metrics than Stenlund on the PK. That's letting a leader lead, and the one area where icing the puck is a good thing.

I still hope we see the 7 d-man alignment. I think of the Kings game where Pionk got beat, and the next shift Bones puts out Dillon and Samberg to make sure the team doesn't lose momentum. With 6 d-men you have to grind through what you have, can't really change your alignment situationally.

In terms of what one 4th liner brings vs. a 7th defenseman, I'm not convinced sacrificing one forward for a d-man who can have a greater impact wouldn't help at this point.

Yes.

If he's dangling his ability, based off of his mood, then I'd rather do that. Send a message. I'd also move off of PLD this offseason.

Dubois showed immense ability in the first half of the season. I still love his ability. I don't think I've ever seen a player who can power through people, and do it twice on the same drive. I was thinking of Mark Messier on Potvin in the '84 playoffs, but I've never seen someone do it twice. That's special. But he doesn't want to be here, and that type of mindset bleeds through the rest of the roster. Why gamble with that?

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Prob should have gone

Scheif Dubois Perfetti Lowry as the 4 centre's. Could have created 3 scoring lines and a killer defensive Lowry 4th line

 

[Gabe Kupari]

I'd keep Barron Lowry Apples as our 4th line for sure but more of a 4th line that plays against the other teams best.

It's the top 9 that's gonna need work.

Guys I'd for sure keep for next season....

Perfetti ehlers Connor Nino namestnikov Morrissey Samberg Demelo and BLA

55 37 26 80 88 4 5 would all be shopped (assuming 55 and 37 wanna move on) (if not I'd gladly sign both to fair 5 to 7 year deals)

 

[voyageur]

Prob should have gone

Scheif Dubois Perfetti Lowry as the 4 centre's. Could have created 3 scoring lines and a killer defensive Lowry 4th line

Scoring lines out of which wingers? Even Scheifele couldn't score when Karson Kuhlman rode on his wing. He could at least keep pace with Appleton for the first quarter of the season. I don't think Perfetti is ready to be a centre yet. If you had him in said mix, he would be behind #17 in terms of usage, and I think he was much better off playing with good hockey players, than the guys he would have had as a 4C to start the year.

A lot of fans don't like it but this team is built with Lowry as the 3C, hard to play against as the defensive zone centre. It doesn't match their views of how teams should score, but it does match Chevy's view of the defensive structure he wants, and Lowry's numbers aren't that far off from others in the same role, in our conference.

Lowry has numbers close Alex Newhook, Frederic Gaudreau, Colton Sissons, even the more talented younger scorer, Wyatt Johnson, in our division. Ryan Mc Leod, Blake Lizotte. So he's not a complete liability.

Strength down the middle was and is part of this team's identity. I know Lowry deserves some criticism for his scoring drought, but he lost some key wingers, and it's hard to say that the guys that came in to reinforce, like Maenalanen or AJF or Kuhlman helped him in any way.

To me that's more a team that hasn't acquired much forward talent through the draft in recent years, and has plateaued in terms of depth. I was probably as surprised as anyone else that the Jets didn't trade a d-man for a forward this year, which seemed like the direction they would take.

I think Adam will one day become a winger, to allow for more speed up the middle.

Right now I like our checking line the way it is. I hope coach doesn't mess with it, but allows the chemistry to develop, if these guys can stay healthy. I attribute a lot of Barron's success to Lowry taking him under his wing this year, you see a lot of communication between the two on the bench.

If the Jets want to add more scoring they need some talent first, someone like Torgersson to step up as a bottom six wing.

 

[Gm0ney]

K, I see you like speaking in relatives vs absolutes. I prefer the latter.

That .65 points per 60 at about 12 minutes of even strength minutes per game means that ehlers puts up an extra point every 7 or 8 games, for an extra 10 even strength points over the course of a season. That isn't changing the outcome of our season.

I have no interest in speaking about the xGF stats since that isn't how hockey games are won or lost. As for the pim... I'm curious as to how many goals that actually leads to. I could do the math involving pp and pk percentages, but I have a feeling it's insignificant too

Powerplays don't matter? Penalties don't matter? 10 extra even strength points per season don't matter?

 

[Buffdog]

Powerplays don't matter? Penalties don't matter? 10 extra even strength points per season don't matter?

10 points per season isn't what has the Jets on the skid they're on...

As for the pp and the pk, why don't you use average ice times of wheeler and ehlers, figure out how many extra pp and pk that difference actually comes out to and then use the pp and pk percentages to calculate an absolute number of goals those stats would lead to. I'm too lazy because I'm gonna say it will be close to Jack shit

The whole ehlers vs wheeler deployment issue is making a mountain out of a mole hill

 

[Evgeny Oliker]

I’m assuming Morrissey comes back on Tuesday right?

If so , which D do you expect to sit?

 

[gojetsgo]

I’m assuming Morrissey comes back on Tuesday right?

If so , which D do you expect to sit?

stanley or samberg

 

[BoneDocUK]

I’m assuming Morrissey comes back on Tuesday right?

If so , which D do you expect to sit?

Stanberg.

 

[voyageur]

I just want to look ahead, not too far ahead, but to what a possible playoff roster could like if Perfetti comes back.

Scheifele is gunning right now, but Connor isn't. Dubois hasn't picked up Ehlers and Wheeler but Namestnikov has. Scheifele has had success with Perfetti all year. Of all the 4th liners I think Stenlund has been the most positive one. So how about this.

Perfetti-Scheifele-Niedrrater
Ehlers-Namestnikov-Wheeler
Connor-Dubois-Stenlund
Barron-Lowry-Appleton

And it you think of the potential of double shifting Scheifele into Stenlund's spot, maybe alternating with Ehlers and Appleton, there's some real scoring potential there.

Defense, other than Josh Morrissey being a #1, there's still some things to be sorted out. Out of all the players the Jets have available, I honestly think Dylan Samberg might be the best choice as a d-partner for our star d-man, but that's probably not this year. I would say that on the defense everyone knows their role this year, and it's still a better unit than the one that went into the 2021 playoffs.

 

[surixon]

I just want to look ahead, not too far ahead, but to what a possible playoff roster could like if Perfetti comes back.

Scheifele is gunning right now, but Connor isn't. Dubois hasn't picked up Ehlers and Wheeler but Namestnikov has. Scheifele has had success with Perfetti all year. Of all the 4th liners I think Stenlund has been the most positive one. So how about this.

Perfetti-Scheifele-Niedrrater
Ehlers-Namestnikov-Wheeler
Connor-Dubois-Stenlund
Barron-Lowry-Appleton

And it you think of the potential of double shifting Scheifele into Stenlund's spot, maybe alternating with Ehlers and Appleton, there's some real scoring potential there.

Defense, other than Josh Morrissey being a #1, there's still some things to be sorted out. Out of all the players the Jets have available, I honestly think Dylan Samberg might be the best choice as a d-partner for our star d-man, but that's probably not this year. I would say that on the defense everyone knows their role this year, and it's still a better unit than the one that went into the 2021 playoffs.

Pretty close to how I'd do it but I'd flip Srenlund and Appelton.

 

[kanadalainen]

Stanberg.

Slamby.

 

[Huffer]

I just want to look ahead, not too far ahead, but to what a possible playoff roster could like if Perfetti comes back.

Scheifele is gunning right now, but Connor isn't. Dubois hasn't picked up Ehlers and Wheeler but Namestnikov has. Scheifele has had success with Perfetti all year. Of all the 4th liners I think Stenlund has been the most positive one. So how about this.

Perfetti-Scheifele-Niedrrater
Ehlers-Namestnikov-Wheeler
Connor-Dubois-Stenlund
Barron-Lowry-Appleton

Defense, other than Josh Morrissey being a #1, there's still some things to be sorted out. Out of all the players the Jets have available, I honestly think Dylan Samberg might be the best choice as a d-partner for our star d-man, but that's probably not this year. I would say that on the defense everyone knows their role this year, and it's still a better unit than the one that went into the 2021 playoffs.

Depending on Chemistry it could be interesting. The only thing I wouldn't necessarily agree with is putting Stenlund with Connor and PLD. I don't hate the idea of having a guy that can play on the boards, or the front of the net with skilled guys, but I don't see Stenlund being able to play well with those 2 and I think there's a chance he might be a net negative. I think Appleton would be over his head as well with those 2 (Connor and PLD), but there is a better chance he could keep up.

Really shows why a lot of us really wanted 1 more forward addition. Another Nino type would really have put the team in a good spot with 3 potential scoring lines.

 

[voyageur]

Depending on Chemistry it could be interesting. The only thing I wouldn't necessarily agree with is putting Stenlund with Connor and PLD. I don't hate the idea of having a guy that can play on the boards, or the front of the net with skilled guys, but I don't see Stenlund being able to play well with those 2 and I think there's a chance he might be a net negative. I think Appleton would be over his head as well with those 2 (Connor and PLD), but there is a better chance he could keep up.

Really shows why a lot of us really wanted 1 more forward addition. Another Nino type would really have put the team in a good spot with 3 potential scoring lines.

I don't think there's going to be set lines, from here on in, especially when it comes to defensive zone draws, where Lowry and Stenlund are the main guys. If Mikey Eyssimont could play with Dubois and Connor I am quite sure Appleton can hack it, and he's the kind of guy you want on the ice if your forwards are attacking deep, because his skating is great through the neutral zone, at tracking players down and limiting odd man rushes.

When Dubois comes back, I don't know where he ends up. Namestnikov has worked in the spot that Dubois hasn't. Will the coach upset the chemistry? Honestly I'd maybe play Dubois with Maenalanen/AJF and Stenlund right now. Not to break up the top 9. Give him some shits with Connor too, but Scheif losing a winger takes away from his productivity. The checking line is the one I want to keep together, because they are doing wonders for possession, and that's a key, especially in the long change 2nd to maintaining control of the pace of the game.

The positive of infusing talent into the lineup should be on the PP. Where the line is thin is keeping a top PK, because you pull one guy out of the lineup, somebody has to step in there. Namestnikov, Wheeler and Connor are all capable PKers, so I guess it's a matter of getting the opportunity.

 

[Huffer]

I don't think there's going to be set lines, from here on in, especially when it comes to defensive zone draws, where Lowry and Stenlund are the main guys. If Mikey Eyssimont could play with Dubois and Connor I am quite sure Appleton can hack it, and he's the kind of guy you want on the ice if your forwards are attacking deep, because his skating is great through the neutral zone, at tracking players down and limiting odd man rushes.

When Dubois comes back, I don't know where he ends up. Namestnikov has worked in the spot that Dubois hasn't. Will the coach upset the chemistry? Honestly I'd maybe play Dubois with Maenalanen/AJF and Stenlund right now. Not to break up the top 9. Give him some shits with Connor too, but Scheif losing a winger takes away from his productivity. The checking line is the one I want to keep together, because they are doing wonders for possession, and that's a key, especially in the long change 2nd to maintaining control of the pace of the game.

The positive of infusing talent into the lineup should be on the PP. Where the line is thin is keeping a top PK, because you pull one guy out of the lineup, somebody has to step in there. Namestnikov, Wheeler and Connor are all capable PKers, so I guess it's a matter of getting the opportunity.

Apples is a better skater for sure, but there is still a chance that's not enough. Having the ability to see the plays happening and then having the skill to execute is also needed. I like a lot of what Apples brings and the last game was his best, but he's not on the same level as those guys and there is a non zero chance he's not able to play consistently at their level as well.

IMO it shows the difference in guys like Apples, Stenlund, AJF, etc and a guy like Names that we just basically got for next to nothing. Names was a skilled player in junior. I remember him coming up with the Bolts and fans were equally excited about him and Kucherov. Now he never became a great top line player, but the skill and IQ is still a little there. And sometimes it's glaringly obvious that our other bottom 6 just don't have that. They don't see plays developing before they happen, they don't always know where to be offensively, and they are not able to execute consistently. Not saying Names will keep up his pace, but when I see him play I see a difference in what he brings compared to our other bottom 6.

 

[sipowicz]

Apples is a better skater for sure, but there is still a chance that's not enough. Having the ability to see the plays happening and then having the skill to execute is also needed. I like a lot of what Apples brings and the last game was his best, but he's not on the same level as those guys and there is a non zero chance he's not able to play consistently at their level as well.

IMO it shows the difference in guys like Apples, Stenlund, AJF, etc and a guy like Names that we just basically got for next to nothing. Names was a skilled player in junior. I remember him coming up with the Bolts and fans were equally excited about him and Kucherov. Now he never became a great top line player, but the skill and IQ is still a little there. And sometimes it's glaringly obvious that our other bottom 6 just don't have that. They don't see plays developing before they happen, they don't always know where to be offensively, and they are not able to execute consistently. Not saying Names will keep up his pace, but when I see him play I see a difference in what he brings compared to our other bottom 6.

Apples hasn't shown much of anything, Seattle had seen enough or basically not enough, Apples is realistically a 4th line player on 30 teams in the NHL!

 

[Huffer]

Apples hasn't shown much of anything, Seattle had seen enough or basically not enough, Apples is realistically a 4th line player on 30 teams in the NHL!

That's why I would have liked another top 6 or middle 6 guy added at the TD.

 

[voyageur]

Apples is a better skater for sure, but there is still a chance that's not enough. Having the ability to see the plays happening and then having the skill to execute is also needed. I like a lot of what Apples brings and the last game was his best, but he's not on the same level as those guys and there is a non zero chance he's not able to play consistently at their level as well.

IMO it shows the difference in guys like Apples, Stenlund, AJF, etc and a guy like Names that we just basically got for next to nothing. Names was a skilled player in junior. I remember him coming up with the Bolts and fans were equally excited about him and Kucherov. Now he never became a great top line player, but the skill and IQ is still a little there. And sometimes it's glaringly obvious that our other bottom 6 just don't have that. They don't see plays developing before they happen, they don't always know where to be offensively, and they are not able to execute consistently. Not saying Names will keep up his pace, but when I see him play I see a difference in what he brings compared to our other bottom 6.

That's the difficult part because part of offense is generated from defensive structure. If you don't have guys who will backcheck hard, block shots, finish checks, you can easily spend a whole shift in your own end, matching up against skill players. The Lowry line is matching top lines, not nobodies. And they hold their own. The 4th line guys I agree lack offensive instincts, but they were given different roles. Not everybody can be a good PKer. Or defensive player. You need to have a good spatial sense of hockey to be able to do it effectively. It's an area where size does matter, because taller players generally have longer reaches to get in lanes. Disrupt passes. You may need to win a check on the boards, to have body position on the puck. We have those guys this year, and their play helps the scorers stay fresh, so the speed isn't lost. And especially momentum, maybe the biggest factor in hockey.

I like the Namestnikov addition. The Jets lacked a player who could transition from top 6 to bottom 6 like Copp did with skill and intelligence. He's fit that role very well.