2022-2023 OHL season prediction thread

[PuckStop75]

1) Petes
2) North Bay
3) Barrie*2
4) Mississauga
5) Niagara
6) Ottawa
7) Sudbury
8) Hamilton
9) Kingston
10) Oshawa

1) Flint*1
2) Guelph
3) OS
4) Kitchener
5) Windsor
6) Saginaw
7) Sarnia
8) London
9) Erie
10) Soo

 

[AttackSound]

Won’t Niagara get most of their picks back when they rule Dickerson defected.

You only get your first round pick back with a defective player.

One spot later then the original pick was taken, as for any additional selections will mainly be based on if the IceDogs can trade him to a team he would reprt to.

I remember in 2014 Victor Mete falling under the same situation with OS. Mete refused to report to OS so the team deemed him defective player and the following season would get a compensation selection one pick later. Which turned into Markus Phillips in 2015.

So depending on what Niagara chooses to due will depend on what the return will be.

 

[OHL4Life]

Won’t Niagara get most of their picks back when they rule Dickerson defected.

not even close. they moved out 13, they have brought 2 in (actually 4 but the 12 and 15th round picks dont cover the 3/4/5th that left).

you may get 5/6 picks for dickinson, your still out quite a bit.

 

[dirty12]

Won’t Niagara get most of their picks back when they rule Dickerson defected.

A lot, not all; maybe 2(2-3-4) plus comp 1st & 2nd. A defective 16 yr old cannot possibly be worth six 19-20 yr olds plus compensation.
But if a team can swap a defective player for the value of Zito & Dann plus the comp pick(s), they should every other year.

 

[OHL Fan]

not even close. they moved out 13, they have brought 2 in (actually 4 but the 12 and 15th round picks dont cover the 3/4/5th that left).

you may get 5/6 picks for dickinson, your still out quite a bit.

They wont get number for number but they also received some quality players that will assist the team more than future picks.

Niagara has done well in getting pieces, but the price paid for each piece was high, including Zito, Ribau and Dann.

 

[OMG67]

All 3 are back - Cardwell, Vierling and McDonnell. If any were going pro you’d know by now.

Lemieux is good but likely will be playing elsewhere unless he comes to camp looking the most improved.

I agree. Sometimes guys go to a Pro camp and get the offer and take it. Most players don’t take it because it is usually a two way AHL-ECHL and I don’t see any of those players getting an actual NHL contract but it has happened. They are good enough players to maybe get one in the right situation.

 

[OMG67]

Won’t Niagara get most of their picks back when they rule Dickerson defected.

Is Dickinson going to play in the OHL somewhere else? I’m not sure what that situation is. He’s not NCAA committed. If they can trade his rights, they likely get a couple 2nds and a couple 3rds plus a 4th and 50th or something around that. Plus they get their comp pick next year.

We will need to see how that situation plays out. Maybe he will sign.

 

[Devin]

One thing I will advise is for everyone to follow @Generalsupdates for his BODOG sports booking OHL picks this season.

If you took all his picks last year at 50 dollars a unit, I know you would have profited a few thousand atleast.

 

[Generalsupdates]

One thing I will advise is for everyone to follow @Generalsupdates for his BODOG sports booking OHL picks this season.

If you took all his picks last year at 50 dollars a unit, I know you would have profited a few thousand atleast.

Currently still furious that Canada didn't cover -6.5 against Latvia yesterday. How do you not beat Latvia by 7+...


Thanks for the shoutout though brother. We should start a OHL gambling thread during the season on here if that's allowed. Not sure how gambling talk is moderated on here

 

[dirty12]

As I stated. Niagara has blown their load to the extent they are capable. Nothing of significant value left to trade. That team is what it is at this point. They’ve done enough to get themselves to somewhere around .500. They’ve added no top end talent, just solid OHLers and they‘ve emptied their draft cupboard for the next three seasons to do so. The organization is a mess. Granted, the team finally sold which is a good thing so they may be able to dig themselves out of their grave but let’s be realistic. What si their player development on and off the ice looking like at this point? I know Ottawa’s player development group is manning Team Canada at the World Juniors Right now. They are about as PRO as it gets at the Junior level.

Looking at a team that has completed its reconfiguration vs a team that hasn’t really even started filling in the gaps and projecting them as such throughout a season is folly. If you are going to forecast a Final Standings, you need to also account for player movement. You have not….at all. Ottawa has draft pick capital and a lot of extra bodies. I expect that some of those assets will be used as most teams do when they have them. Of the teams in the east that I project as challenging for the Conference lead, Ottawa easily has the most trade capital. I really don’t think it is close either.

Age of players is not as meaningful as you suggest. If Pinelli is as good a player at 17 as another player at 19 then so be it. I believe he proved himself last year as a 16 year old and players that make that sort of push as 16 year olds usually continue that push as 17 year olds. 18 year olds that score 40 points usually don’t push to 80 points as 19 year olds. It happens but not often enough to count on it unless there is some sort of mitigating factor. In many cases, they get their points on lower lines with less responsible opposition matchups. When they move to the higher lines they can’t handle the added responsibility and toughness of the opposition matchups. Pinelli played top 6 during the 2nd half of last season and performed admirably for a 16 year old.

If Ottawa finishes 2nd in their division and Niagara finishes 4th in their division but still finishes 5th in the Conference, I will chew off my left arm live on the Internet. That sort of occurrence is rare. Do you know how bad a division needs to be for their 2nd place finisher to finish lower than 5th? Typically it means the top six in the conference are within maybe 15 points top to bottom and the team in 6th is about 4 points out of 3rd. I don’t see that here.

I have Ottawa giving up in the neighbourhood of 190-200 goals next season. I’d be surprised if they give up more than 200. If they don’t add a front line centre then admittedly they will struggle to score enough to be a real challenger. But the back end on goal prevention is already in place. But they are deep enough on the wings that if they can acquire a front line centre capable of 80+ points, they will be formidable. I’d feel more confident if they were able to swap out one of their D-Men with someone a little more puck movement savvy but they are good enough on the back end to compete as is.

For Ottawa to finish 6th, I think they need to surrender 230 goals. I just don’t see that happening with this roster (assuming they add one capable centre).

I may not pay close enough attention to the entire league to get a full and true sense of where other teams stand; however, I have been around long enough to be able to assess where my home team stands. I’m no homer and I think many old schoolers will tell you I’ve taken a ton of heat “disrespecting” my home team when I’ve stated they aren’t very strong and will struggle (last offseason included). But, this team has a lot of intangible elements that don’t show in the stats. More than I’ve seen in many years. If they can add that one dynamic centre, I really think they will be formidable, even possibly enough to reach top of the conference. They have the pieces to acquire any two players they want if they choose to do so. Adding that centre and looking at the trashy division Ottawa is in this year, I think they are a 90+ point team. If they add something dynamic on the back end for puck movement then they could push closer to 100 points. Status quo? Tough to say but I’d add 15points to their previous season based on organic player development. So, 81 points give or take?

I have my Top 5 in no particular order:
Mississauga
Peterborough
Ottawa
North Bay
Barrie

Once the teams have posted their lineups to start the season and OA’s have committed as well as Imports, I will reassess but based on what I see now while also taking into consideration ability of player movement, that is your top 5 in the East. Could one of the Central Division teams fall flat on their face somehow and Niagara finishes 3rd in the division? Possibly. Likely? I don’t think so but if Barrie has all their OA’s turn pro (not likely) that could happen to them for sure.

C’mon, age matters; the top 3 - 17 yr olds in the scoring race finished 8, 27, 50 last season. Pinelli is not comparable to Wright, and will not get the same opportunity given Goyette on a wolves team in re-build mode.
The colts have better OAs, more and better ‘04 born, more available high picks, and as good or better prospects among the 2005-06 born than the ‘67s team you claim as having ‘easily the most tradeable assets’.

The ‘67s can contend (if) they add early. Having Kasper report and acquire the best OA for the team to start the season would change my view entirely. Otherwise I believe the ‘67s fall behind in an usually strong eastern conference, and give the 2005-06 born every opportunity to develop.
The Pete’s trades for Stillman/Meelee, two 2022 2nds for future 2(2nds & 3rds), and for Lockhart are ‘all-In type’ type moves. That and being a better post trade deadline team than the ‘67s is what separates those teams for me.

Niagara is now built to be comfortably middle of the pack this season and contend the next. Saying Niagara has no picks for the next three years is just wrong. Niagara should have comp 1st, 1st, 2nd, comp 2nd, and 4th for the next draft. With the amount of returning players the team will have, Niagara can afford to trade the 2nds for future 2nds & 3rds; then the team will have plenty for a serious memorial cup bid and/or run in 2023-24.

 

[OMG67]

C’mon, age matters; the top 3 - 17 yr olds in the scoring race finished 8, 27, 50 last season. Pinelli is not comparable to Wright, and will not get the same opportunity given Goyette on a wolves team in re-build mode.
The colts have better OAs, more and better ‘04 born, more available high picks, and as good or better prospects among the 2005-06 born than the ‘67s team you claim has having ‘easily the most tradeable assets’.

The ‘67s can contend (if) they add early. Having Kasper report and acquire the best OA for the team to start the season would change my view entirely. Otherwise I believe the ‘67s fall behind in an usually strong eastern conference, and give the 2005-06 born every opportunity to develop.

Niagara is now built to be comfortably middle of the pack this season and contend the next. Saying Niagara has no picks for the next three years is just wrong. Niagara should have comp 1st, 1st, 2nd, comp 2nd, and 4th for the next draft.

The post you are replying to was geared against the point you made regarding age but more specifically the wingers on Niagara. Barrie’s OA’s are more money in the bank than Pinelli. My point was that 60-70 points is 60-70 points at all ages. If Pinelli scores 70 points from the 2nd line LW in Ottawa then age doesn’t matter.

If Kasper reports (which is unlikely based on early reports) the 67’s have a bonafide front line centre. That changes everything.

There will be a decent amount of front line centres available if Kasper doesn’t report, whether they be 19 or 20. If Kitchener doesn’t get good fortune on their signings, I could see Francesco Pinelli unite with his little brother in Ottawa.

67’s assets as of now:
2023 - GUE 2nd, NIA 2nd
2024 - Ott 2nd / KGN-SOO-KIT-OTT 3rd
2025 - Ott 2nd, SOO 2nd / OTT 3rd
2022 1st rnd - Marrelli

That is five 2nds and five 3rds over the next three drafts. Plus they have Marrelli who is somewhat expendable. Plus they have the conditional picks if Moldenhauer signs but at this point I think he stays in Chicago. He hasn’t committed to NCAA yet though which is the last remaining question mark for him to play OHL instead of NCAA. He was a high enough pick by Toronto to maybe motivate him to turn pro earlier. So, who knows for sure…

The Poles will also have extra bodies on the back end that are more than capable OHLers. With Mews adding to a group of a returning seven and Ewles looking pretty decent in his small sample size last year during injuries, they do have at least two bodies back there they can trade without even flinching, especially if they decide to keep Marrelli through the underage trade deadline.

If we are looking at trade assets, I don’t see another team you have ahead of Ottawa with more assets in those expendable categories. Those teams would need to trade real bodies.

The 67’s graduate Tolnai, Costantini, Beck, Matier, and Boucher. Plus they will have OA decisions to make so they’ll have to drop one of Sawyer, Gill-Shane, TJ or Donoso. With so many graduates (four of them significant), I’m not too sure they have the luxury of a rebuilding year unless they start unloading those guys.

Again, too many people look at fire power up front. I believe the 67’s will surrender less than 200 goals. That alone would put them into 3/4 slot. On top of that, their division is weak. They will compile points against Oshawa, Kingston and Hamilton while all three are resetting. Meanwhile, Niagara is playing Barrie, NB and Missy 18 times. Ottawa plays Peterborough 7 times. That alone should net Ottawa an additional 6-10 points through strength of schedule.

We will have to agree to disagree and monitor it as the season progresses. You participate a lot on the Ottawa page so I know there will be some fun banter for the remainder of the year! Be well, BRUTHA!

 

[HockeyPops]

Can Niagara trade a comp second? I know that they can't declare defective a player picked with a comp 1st so comp picks are treated differently, but I don't know if there is a rule about not trading comp picks...

 

[dirty12]

Pe

Can Niagara trade a comp second? I know that they can't declare defective a player picked with a comp 1st so comp picks are treated differently, but I don't know if there is a rule about not trading comp picks...

The Petes moved their comp 2nd

 

[dirty12]

The post you are replying to was geared against the point you made regarding age but more specifically the wingers on Niagara. Barrie’s OA’s are more money in the bank than Pinelli. My point was that 60-70 points is 60-70 points at all ages. If Pinelli scores 70 points from the 2nd line LW in Ottawa then age doesn’t matter.

If Kasper reports (which is unlikely based on early reports) the 67’s have a bonafide front line centre. That changes everything.

There will be a decent amount of front line centres available if Kasper doesn’t report, whether they be 19 or 20. If Kitchener doesn’t get good fortune on their signings, I could see Francesco Pinelli unite with his little brother in Ottawa.

67’s assets as of now:
2023 - GUE 2nd, NIA 2nd
2024 - Ott 2nd / KGN-SOO-KIT-OTT 3rd
2025 - Ott 2nd, SOO 2nd / OTT 3rd
2022 1st rnd - Marrelli

That is five 2nds and five 3rds over the next three drafts. Plus they have Marrelli who is somewhat expendable. Plus they have the conditional picks if Moldenhauer signs but at this point I think he stays in Chicago. He hasn’t committed to NCAA yet though which is the last remaining question mark for him to play OHL instead of NCAA. He was a high enough pick by Toronto to maybe motivate him to turn pro earlier. So, who knows for sure…

The Poles will also have extra bodies on the back end that are more than capable OHLers. With Mews adding to a group of a returning seven and Ewles looking pretty decent in his small sample size last year during injuries, they do have at least two bodies back there they can trade without even flinching, especially if they decide to keep Marrelli through the underage trade deadline.

If we are looking at trade assets, I don’t see another team you have ahead of Ottawa with more assets in those expendable categories. Those teams would need to trade real bodies.

The 67’s graduate Tolnai, Costantini, Beck, Matier, and Boucher. Plus they will have OA decisions to make so they’ll have to drop one of Sawyer, Gill-Shane, TJ or Donoso. With so many graduates (four of them significant), I’m not too sure they have the luxury of a rebuilding year unless they start unloading those guys.

Again, too many people look at fire power up front. I believe the 67’s will surrender less than 200 goals. That alone would put them into 3/4 slot. On top of that, their division is weak. They will compile points against Oshawa, Kingston and Hamilton while all three are resetting. Meanwhile, Niagara is playing Barrie, NB and Missy 18 times. Ottawa plays Peterborough 7 times. That alone should net Ottawa an additional 6-10 points through strength of schedule.

We will have to agree to disagree and monitor it as the season progresses. You participate a lot on the Ottawa page so I know there will be some fun banter for the remainder of the year! Be well, BRUTHA!

When the ‘67s show a willingness to part with any future for this season, we can discuss the likelihood of the ‘67s parting with both 2006 born 1sts.
I think the ‘67s D is currently mediocre in the east. It does not compare to the colts imo. It’s no better than the Petes or Frontenacs if they go with their 3-OAs. The Niagara D is probably about average. Miss probably has the best one in Del Maestro and plays the best team defense. And I think NB will have among the best D for the next three seasons.

 

[OMG67]

When the ‘67s show a willingness to part with any future for this season, we can discuss the likelihood of the ‘67s parting with both 2006 born 1sts.
I think the ‘67s D is currently mediocre in the east. It does not compare to the colts imo. It’s no better than the Petes or Frontenacs if they go with their 3-OAs. The Niagara D is probably about average. Miss probably has the best one in Del Maestro and plays the best team defense. And I think NB will have among the best D for the next seasons.

The most likely scenario has Ottawa trading one of their 18 or 19 year old D-Men at the start of the season to at least make room for Mews. The likely return on that deal will be similar to what they will trade to acquire their 3rd OA. I imagine because of their lack of quality centre depth, the OA will fill that spot.

That combination of those two moves should put them in that top 5 group. You have Niagara in that top 5 group but I still think the organization is in shambles which makes it hard even with a good roster to perform, mostly because I just don’t see the proper support in place.

If what I am saying is accurate, it will be incumbent on Ottawa to make one or two additional moves at the deadline to push them past their opponents in the East. If they were to add Harrison and Moore out of Oshawa, which was discussed a bit on the Ottawa page, that makes a big difference. Ottawa could do that with Marrelli being the main centrepiece. I’m not saying they will do that but that is the type of deal they are well positioned to make. That said, I agree that trades of that nature should not be used to predict standings at this stage. However, that first series of two moves are a virtual lock or no brainer. That is basic roster management 101.

My main point is you are judging current roster and I am factoring in trade likelihood and ability to make deals. Additionally, I am factoring in easy to fill impact spots like open OA spots. I’m not sure any of the teams ahead of Ottawa on your list have an open OA spot. Most actually have impact OAs so they won’t even entertain improving in that area either.

Additionally, you have to admit that placing four of the teams in the Central in the top 5 of the Conference is exceedingly unlikely. It has happened but it is beyond rare. I just can’t see it happening. It would probably be a situation where less than 5 points separate 4 through 6

 

[Voice from the North]

I'll probably be wrong by training camp but here goes

East

Peterborough
North Bay
Barrie
Mississauga
Ottawa
Sudbury
Oshawa
Niagara
Hamilton
Kingston

West

Flint
Guelph
Owen Sound
Sarnia
London
Saginaw
Kitchener
Windsor
Soo
Erie

 

[dirty12]

The most likely scenario has Ottawa trading one of their 18 or 19 year old D-Men at the start of the season to at least make room for Mews. The likely return on that deal will be similar to what they will trade to acquire their 3rd OA. I imagine because of their lack of quality centre depth, the OA will fill that spot.

That combination of those two moves should put them in that top 5 group. You have Niagara in that top 5 group but I still think the organization is in shambles which makes it hard even with a good roster to perform, mostly because I just don’t see the proper support in place.

If what I am saying is accurate, it will be incumbent on Ottawa to make one or two additional moves at the deadline to push them past their opponents in the East. If they were to add Harrison and Moore out of Oshawa, which was discussed a bit on the Ottawa page, that makes a big difference. Ottawa could do that with Marrelli being the main centrepiece. I’m not saying they will do that but that is the type of deal they are well positioned to make. That said, I agree that trades of that nature should not be used to predict standings at this stage. However, that first series of two moves are a virtual lock or no brainer. That is basic roster management 101.

My main point is you are judging current roster and I am factoring in trade likelihood and ability to make deals. Additionally, I am factoring in easy to fill impact spots like open OA spots. I’m not sure any of the teams ahead of Ottawa on your list have an open OA spot. Most actually have impact OAs so they won’t even entertain improving in that area either.

Additionally, you have to admit that placing four of the teams in the Central in the top 5 of the Conference is exceedingly unlikely. It has happened but it is beyond rare. I just can’t see it happening. It would probably be a situation where less than 5 points separate 4 through 6

I think there is a good chance of the east being tight 1-6 at the deadline as well. Potentially Barrie and/or NB could create a separate top tier and ‘67s be a distant 6th if they sit back to see how things shape up, but I really do think several teams will be within striking distance of the #1 seed.
I don’t see Niagara as a team in disarray, at all. Within weeks, Niagara has re-shaped the roster and immediate direction of the team, and added all the necessary coaches, scouts, training and advertising staff. The new owner had a plan in place well before buying an OHL franchise.

 

[OMG67]

I think there is a good chance of the east being tight 1-6 at the deadline as well. Potentially Barrie and/or NB could create a separate top tier and ‘67s be a distant 6th if they sit back to see how things shape up, but I really do think several teams will be within striking distance of the #1 seed.
I don’t see Niagara as a team in disarray, at all. Within weeks, Niagara has re-shaped the roster and immediate direction of the team, and added all the necessary coaches, scouts, training and advertising staff. The new owner had a plan in place well before buying an OHL franchise.

Regardless of what the new owner in Niagara has done in preparation, we all know it takes a considerable length of time to build the actual organization to the point it is a well oiled machine working all in one direction. It doesn’t matter about best intentions. It will take at least two solid years to star truly bearing fruit with respect to off ice training and preparation as well as reputation building. Add to that you have a considerable number of inputs on the player side, especially on the leadership side that all need to find a way to work together. That has a tendency of not working more than it actually tends to work. Niagara may capture lightning in a bottle and everything falls into place but it is very rare. I don’t have faith intheir ability to hit the ground running straight out of the gate, especially in that division.

Additionally, they don’t really have a mainstay leader to lean on. They are going to need to hope someone steps up and fills that role and also has the ability to link to the organizations mission. That in itself can be a tough ask. they may have acquired individual pieces that have skill and talent as well as other production related attributes but one of them is going to need to wear the “C” and create their identity as a new team and organization. That’s a tough ride.

Ottawa has a pro level off ice team. With access to resources and money to acquire them, it took Ottawa a few years to get it together properly Once Jeff Brown left and James Boyd came in with Andre Tourigny (now Dave Cameron). I have a hell of a lot more faith in quality of resources in Ottawa to advance their program. I know Ottawa takes a lot of hits but they went to the Finals and then got their legs cut out from underneath them in their follow up season with the cancellation. They’ve got a proven system now and have all the internal assets to move forward coming out of Covid layoffs (And all the requisite graduates from their competitive windows that got quashed with Covid and no ability to trade those assets during the 2nd cancelled season).

I agree with Barrie, North Bay, Missy, and Peterborough. I just don’t agree there is a wide gap anywhere in there. I‘m leaning a little more toward Missy because they are super strong on the back end and return all players of consequence from last season but I want to see what Barrie does to start the year. I see them as the dark horse of that group. I think Peterborough is strong but I don’t see the separation you see. I think they lost two pivotal players with leadership and have not replaced them internally to the degree I think makes them a clear cut front-runner.

Ottawa’s standing will depend on how fast they make their moves. I think he deletion of a player like Sawyer or Sirman and the addition of an OA Centre will happen quick. I think he other moves (if any) will be deadline moves.

I see Niagara in 6th at the deadline and not performing well divisionally against Barrie, Missy and North Bay. If I am right them they are likely more suited to selling at the deadline which will plunge them down to 8th. I see that as a more likely outcome. But if one of the other three teams start out weak, maybe Niagara won’t sell.

 

[HockeyPops]

I don't think Niagara's plan is to sell this year, regardless of earning home ice or not. I think they are hoping to compete come the playoffs to give valuable experience to next year's contender, rather than bow out losing 4 straight in the first round.

 

[dirty12]

Regardless of what the new owner in Niagara has done in preparation, we all know it takes a considerable length of time to build the actual organization to the point it is a well oiled machine working all in one direction. It doesn’t matter about best intentions. It will take at least two solid years to star truly bearing fruit with respect to off ice training and preparation as well as reputation building. Add to that you have a considerable number of inputs on the player side, especially on the leadership side that all need to find a way to work together. That has a tendency of not working more than it actually tends to work. Niagara may capture lightning in a bottle and everything falls into place but it is very rare. I don’t have faith intheir ability to hit the ground running straight out of the gate, especially in that division.

Additionally, they don’t really have a mainstay leader to lean on. They are going to need to hope someone steps up and fills that role and also has the ability to link to the organizations mission. That in itself can be a tough ask. they may have acquired individual pieces that have skill and talent as well as other production related attributes but one of them is going to need to wear the “C” and create their identity as a new team and organization. That’s a tough ride.

Ottawa has a pro level off ice team. With access to resources and money to acquire them, it took Ottawa a few years to get it together properly Once Jeff Brown left and James Boyd came in with Andre Tourigny (now Dave Cameron). I have a hell of a lot more faith in quality of resources in Ottawa to advance their program. I know Ottawa takes a lot of hits but they went to the Finals and then got their legs cut out from underneath them in their follow up season with the cancellation. They’ve got a proven system now and have all the internal assets to move forward coming out of Covid layoffs (And all the requisite graduates from their competitive windows that got quashed with Covid and no ability to trade those assets during the 2nd cancelled season).

I agree with Barrie, North Bay, Missy, and Peterborough. I just don’t agree there is a wide gap anywhere in there. I‘m leaning a little more toward Missy because they are super strong on the back end and return all players of consequence from last season but I want to see what Barrie does to start the year. I see them as the dark horse of that group. I think Peterborough is strong but I don’t see the separation you see. I think they lost two pivotal players with leadership and have not replaced them internally to the degree I think makes them a clear cut front-runner.

Ottawa’s standing will depend on how fast they make their moves. I think he deletion of a player like Sawyer or Sirman and the addition of an OA Centre will happen quick. I think he other moves (if any) will be deadline moves.

I see Niagara in 6th at the deadline and not performing well divisionally against Barrie, Missy and North Bay. If I am right them they are likely more suited to selling at the deadline which will plunge them down to 8th. I see that as a more likely outcome. But if one of the other three teams start out weak, maybe Niagara won’t sell.

This is like a Micheal Corleone for me in that comments like lack of stability, leadership, and ‘pro-level’ off-ice team that somehow separates a mediocre ‘67s roster from middle of the pack draw me back in.
There appears to be no limit on what the Icedogs will spend to get want they want or need. If Niagara managed to hire a head coach worse than the youngest Burke, I am at a loss. The Icedogs named a captain -10 weeks before the season and acquired 6(19-20 yr olds) with playoff experience. Two of those were (one?) game away from an OHL title. There is leadership.

A lot of things are debatable, Niagara being the most improved 8 months into 2022 should not be one of them, imo.

 

[OMG67]

This is like a Micheal Corleone for me in that comments like lack of stability, leadership, and ‘pro-level’ off-ice team that somehow separates a mediocre ‘67s roster from middle of the pack draw me back in.
There appears to be no limit on what the Icedogs will spend to get want they want or need. If Niagara managed to hire a head coach worse than the youngest Burke, I am at a loss. The Icedogs named a captain -10 weeks before the season and acquired 6(19-20 yr olds) with playoff experience. Two of those were (one?) game away from an OHL title. There is leadership.

A lot of things are debatable, Niagara being the most improved 8 months into 2022 should not be one of them, imo.

There are reasons why some franchises stay in a competitive cycle and a lot of that has to do with the complete organization. Access to off ice development is one of them. From things like psychologists to off season training programs, these franchises put their players in the best possible situation to succeed. You shouldn’t fluff that off so easily. We see it in action year over year with a handful of bottom feeders that stay bottom feeders and a handful of organizations that always seem competitive. Ottawa has developed that supporting organization to be that competitive team.

Covid messed up a lot of teams management cycle so things were thrown off kilter a bit but this season, those top teams will have had that year back to adjust and you’ll probably see them on or near the top again. Meanwhile the crap franchises remain crap franchises.

There is no doubt that Niagara has improved in that regard. how could they not? But if you are suggesting they are going to hit a home run with all of their organization build choices and have them all pan out from day one, that is not realistic.

There are going to be some players they brought in that simply won’t fit into their team culture or maybe even the way they decide to play. Happens all the time. Teams bring in a player from outside and they don’t fit in the way they expected. Or maybe they bring in a player from a good program and that player is used to things one way and are used to being surrounded by a lot of talent and now they are the player that other talent is looking to and it doesn’t work out.

We’ve seen this at the NHL level (pre-cap) quite a bit. A marginal team trades or signs a bunch of players and they look good on paper and it doesn’t work out.

It is what it is. We disagree. Clearly I am not going to convince you and you aren’t going to convince me. I am challenging your assertion that Niagara in a tough division will finish ahead of Ottawa in a weak division. I don’t see it. I am factoring in Ottawa’s ability as well as likeihood of player movement. I’ve factored in Niagara’s lack of remaining tradable assets on the books for the next three years giving them less flexibility. None of that makes any sense to you but so be it. You seem to be stuck on the current rosters as if they are static. We see tremendous amounts of roster movement throughout an OHL season. I see Ottawa making two key moves either before the season or a very short time into the season to address the fact they have 9 D-Men and lack a Centre and have an OA spot open. Seems obvious to me that a d-Man is going out and a Centre is coming in and they likely use the OA slot to do it.

In my mind, just the difference in schedule puts Ottawa ahead of Niagara. Ottawa will have access to easier points with heavy divisional games.

Anyway. Like I said earlier. Be well. We will pick this up again in the Ottawa page in a couple months. I’m sure it will fuel banter the entire season which is good! Each of us has big enough shoulders to take the heat when one of us turns out to be wrong. It is good to have differing opinions. Makes for way better discussion, that is for sure.

 

[Bra Wavers]

No matter what, all of this discussion is so much better than twiddling our thumbs and posting random hypotheticals during the COVID lost season. Bring on training camps!!

 

[OHL Fan]

omg67, I like your knowledge and thinking, but your Novels are very tiring to read

 

[dirty12]

We do disagree a lot about Niagara & Ottawa. Including which, if either can be considered a top team that stays in a competitive cycle. Personally, I will take the team that has made three runs at it in a decade with two OHL final appearances, can sell tickets in the range of 4000-sell out in the final month of a 19th place season, and just sold for $21M
And a great version of the blackhawks jersey.

 

[OMG67]

omg67, I like your knowledge and thinking, but your Novels are very tiring to read

Well you can make 12 arguments each in a single post or 6 arguments in 2 posts. I prefer to try to make a full argument so I don’t have people coming back with silly lines like, “Sure you say that now but why didn’t you say that before? You are just trying to backtrack.”

If you are going to dig in heels on an issue, you better come prepared to argue your case. Saying, “Well, yeah but what about this” 35 times is more tiresome.