Rumor: 2022-2022 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Part 14: Sakic goes back to bed

[Avaholic29]

No. He’s benched because he has been very mediocre as of late. And if he’s not putting up points, he’s a big liability.

Interesting, bednar was quoted saying he’s loved newhooks game in mid March and again in mid april. The preds bottom 6 is full of massive bodies and the hit totals are a clear indication of that. It was the smarter move to have a physical NAK play when we know the scoring won’t be a problem against a second string or third string goalie.

Yes, you were wrong

You quoted me saying Newhook had 8 points in his last 8 games, which in fact at that time was correct. Funny you went back to respond to that but failed to acknowledge my response to you saying you’d trade Byram before Girard with complete confidence.

 

[nammerus]

Interesting, bednar was quoted saying he’s loved newhooks game in mid March and again in mid april. The preds bottom 6 is full of massive bodies and the hit totals are a clear indication of that. It was the smarter move to have a physical NAK play when we know the scoring won’t be a problem against a second string or third string goalie.



You quoted me saying Newhook had 8 points in his last 8 games, which in fact at that time was correct. Funny you went back to respond to that but failed to acknowledge my response to you saying you’d trade Byram before Girard with complete confidence.

You do know there were game played after mid April right? And Newhook was absolute garbage in those 6-7 games.

He’s young still, so plenty of time to grow. But currently, he’s terrible at FO’s, well below average defensively, not physical, and doesn’t drive play. And since he would be stapled next to the cadaver known as JTC on the 3rd line, he would provide zero offensive output. So what’s the impetus to play him?

 

[Avaholic29]

You do know there were game played after mid April right? And Newhook was absolute garbage in those 6-7 games.

He’s young still, so plenty of time to grow. But currently, he’s terrible at FO’s, well below average defensively, not physical, and doesn’t drive play. And since he would be stapled next to the cadaver known as JTC on the 3rd line, he would provide zero offensive output. So what’s the impetus to play him?

That’s what I mean, his skill set is redundant against a team like the preds. You’re also right in saying it’d be a liability having him between Bura and Compher, I think it’s more about style match ups then his play personally. Also, yes I realize games were played after mid April smarty pants.

 

[Alienblood]

That’s what I mean, his skill set is redundant against a team like the preds. You’re also right in saying it’d be a liability having him between Bura and Compher, I think it’s more about style match ups then his play personally. Also, yes I realize games were played after mid April smarty pants.

He will play soon enough

 

[flyfysher]

You do know there were game played after mid April right? And Newhook was absolute garbage in those 6-7 games.

He’s young still, so plenty of time to grow. But currently, he’s terrible at FO’s, well below average defensively, not physical, and doesn’t drive play. And since he would be stapled next to the cadaver known as JTC on the 3rd line, he would provide zero offensive output. So what’s the impetus to play him?

Geez, you’re acting like the Avs had their PO line up in after mid-April when the reality is JB was trying out weird line combos. I wouldn’t be that critical of Newhook under that circumstance.

 

[nammerus]

Geez, you’re acting like the Avs had their PO line up in after mid-April when the reality is JB was trying out weird line combos. I wouldn’t be that critical of Newhook under that circumstance.

Those were his issues even before mid-April. People just chose to be ok with it when he was semi-producing. And some of those issues will hopefully improve with time/experience.

I actually think the Avs would be better served trading him for a legit #2C next year to take advantage of the couple years Mac has left in his prime, while he still has a significant amount of trade value.

 

[flyfysher]

Those were his issues even before mid-April. People just chose to be ok with it when he was semi-producing. And some of those issues will hopefully improve with time/experience.

I actually think the Avs would be better served trading him for a legit #2C next year to take advantage of the couple years Mac has left in his prime, while he still has a significant amount of trade value.

JB should have tried Newhook at 2C given the Avs point lead. No expectations of success but JB wanted JTC as his pivot man there instead. I’d play Rantanen at 2C before JTC.

 

[BobRossColton]

Barabanov re-signed in SJ.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

JB should have tried Newhook at 2C given the Avs point lead. No expectations of success but JB wanted JTC as his pivot man there instead. I’d play Rantanen at 2C before JTC.

They did try this in spurts, and they tried him at 2W in spurts. None of it was successful. Doesn't mean he cant be the 2C down the road(Though I'm doubtful) but he isn't ready yet.

 

[flyfysher]

They did try this in spurts, and they tried him at 2W in spurts. None of it was successful. Doesn't mean he cant be the 2C down the road(Though I'm doubtful) but he isn't ready yet.

Don’t necessarily disagree. But JTC should not be a 2C either.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Don’t necessarily disagree. But JTC should not be a 2C either.

Over Newhook, he should be.


I think if something happens though they'll put Landy or Mikko at Center first.

 

[flyfysher]

Over Newhook, he should be.


I think if something happens though they'll put Landy or Mikko at Center first.

Playing JTC at 2C is like playing JJ in the top 4…in mid-April. Heaven forbid that you’d see either come to pass in the POs.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Playing JTC at 2C is like playing JJ in the top 4…in mid-April. Heaven forbid that you’d see either come to pass in the POs.

The difference between Newhook and JTC at 2C is pretty minimal honestly. Either one there is going to get caved in.

 

[Avaholic29]

The difference between Newhook and JTC at 2C is pretty minimal honestly. Either one there is going to get caved in.

Newhook scoring ability >>>>>> Compher

 

[The Abusement Park]

Newhook scoring ability >>>>>> Compher

I mean that's not true at this point though?

 

[Avaholic29]

I mean that's not true at this point though?

They had the same amount of points but the eye test clearly shows that Newhooks scoring ability is higher than Compher. Compher did have a career high of 18 this year but he’s not sniping from the top of the hashmarks and doesn’t have much of a shot at all. Just my opinion, I do think Comphers all around game is more complete but I’d feel more confidence in Newhook to score a goal for us.

 

[The Abusement Park]

They had the same amount of points but the eye test clearly shows that Newhooks scoring ability is higher than Compher.

I don't think that's necessarily true at the moment. Newhook had spurts, but so does JTC. Going forwards Newhook should be better but at this moment the difference between the two isn't big. If either guy has to play 2C we're in trouble.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

JTC is just, you know what you're going to get at this point. He's not going to help you at the 2C spot but he's also decent enough that he doesn't hurt you. Basically what we saw in the Vegas series with him. He wasn't the reason we lost, but he certainly did contribute to winning the series either.



Newhook is far more of an unknown and yes its possible if he were given a chance at 2C he ends up running with it and contributes positively for the team... But it's also possible and more likely that he contributes negatively in that role and ends up costing us in a key moment.


His all around game still needs quite a bit of work, which is where I would be most concerned about Newy as the 2C spot.



Either way though we are in a lot of trouble if either of them have to play 2C for any significant stretch in this post season.

 

[Avaholic29]

I don't think that's necessarily true at the moment. Newhook had spurts, but so does JTC. Going forwards Newhook should be better but at this moment the difference between the two isn't big. If either guy has to play 2C we're in trouble.

I should’ve clarified I wasn’t speaking about a 2C scenario but more so in general. Definitely in big trouble if either is our 2C lol.

 

[Sea Eagles]

When the players are passing around the Stanley Cup this post season, I hope they take a big hometown discount to stay. Kadri could get a big payrise, but give him term - he excels here, and there isn't a better 2C in the league. All I want for Christmas is these exact players remaining. We are the best team in the league.

 

[Alienblood]

JB should have tried Newhook at 2C given the Avs point lead. No expectations of success but JB wanted JTC as his pivot man there instead. I’d play Rantanen at 2C before JTC.

I agree shoulda tried Newhook 2C but I don't like Rantanen at C unless for a short period of time. , he simply falls down too much to play center. Prefer him as an elite winger.

 

[ABasin]

JTC is just, you know what you're going to get at this point. He's not going to help you at the 2C spot but he's also decent enough that he doesn't hurt you. Basically what we saw in the Vegas series with him. He wasn't the reason we lost, but he certainly did contribute to winning the series either.



Newhook is far more of an unknown and yes its possible if he were given a chance at 2C he ends up running with it and contributes positively for the team... But it's also possible and more likely that he contributes negatively in that role and ends up costing us in a key moment.


His all around game still needs quite a bit of work, which is where I would be most concerned about Newy as the 2C spot.



Either way though we are in a lot of trouble if either of them have to play 2C for any significant stretch in this post season.

This is a good post.

I've been here a long time, and I understand that this board simply needs a heel/scapegoat player at all times, no exceptions. And now that Jost is gone, Compher is that sacrificial lamb. Got it.

But honestly, I don't mind Compher as much as a lot of posters do. He's a classic 3rd/2nd line tweener, will put up 15ish goals/30ish points per season, plays a modestly decent brand of both offensive and defensive hockey, plays reasonably physically as well. He is what he is. What's not to like, really? My two beefs with him are 1) he spends way too much time on his ass (and back, and knees, etc) rather than on his skates, and 2) he makes about $500K-1M too much.

100% agree that he would be an underwhelming choice for 2C for any length of time. But aren't most teams in this position? What team wouldn't suffer if they lost a 1C or 2C for a significant length of time? If the Avs lose Kadri again during the playoffs, it's going to be painful. But looking forward to next season, could Newhook fill that role? Feels kind of iffy to me, though I suspect that Newhook still has upside/improvement that could quite likely happen over the next couple of years. Compher is what he is at this point.

If the Avs want to sign an established veteran 2C, that's going to be expensive. Not sure they have the cap space for that, unless they say goodbye to Nichushkin (I believe Kadri and Burakovski are both gone next season).

 

[shadow1]

Compher is a frustrating player because he disappears for stretches. We all know he has talent, and at times in the past has shown the ability to take over games.

33 points in 70 games is damn respectable. But consider he had 8 points in his final 8 games, and 9 points in his first 9 games. We all know what the middle of the season looked like, and it wasn't good.

I realize 3rd line players are generally inconsistent, but Compher averaged (slightly) more ice time than André Burakovsky this season. I obviously wasn't expecting Compher to match Burakovsky's 61 points; Burakovsky had better linemates with his ice time, didn't kill penalties, and is a more talented player in general. But stretches like the one Compher had from late January to late March (4 points in 22 games) is what gets people.

I'm seeing a lot of Newhook hate on these boards lately, but he matched Compher's 33 points with way less ice time (16:19 vs 13:34). Newhook didn't turn 21 until January, he's still a very young player and had a fine rookie season. It probably sucks for him that he's on the sidelines, but it's not the first time in history a promising young player sat down significant portions of the post season in favor of veteran players (recently Robert Thomas, who coincidentally also had 33 points his rookie year, was scratched at times - mostly in the SCF - when the Blues won the Cup in 2019).

 

[The Abusement Park]

Compher is a frustrating player because he disappears for stretches. We all know he has talent, and at times in the past has shown the ability to take over games.

33 points in 70 games is damn respectable. But consider he had 8 points in his final 8 games, and 9 points in his first 9 games. We all know what the middle of the season looked like, and it wasn't good.

I realize 3rd line players are generally inconsistent, but Compher averaged (slightly) more ice time than André Burakovsky this season. I obviously wasn't expecting Compher to match Burakovsky's 61 points; Burakovsky had better linemates with his ice time, didn't kill penalties, and is a more talented player in general. But stretches like the one Compher had from late January to late March (4 points in 22 games) is what gets people.

I'm seeing a lot of Newhook hate on these boards lately, but he matched Compher's 33 points with way less ice time (16:19 vs 13:34). Newhook didn't turn 21 until January, he's still a very young player and had a fine rookie season. It probably sucks for him that he's on the sidelines, but it's not the first time in history a promising young player sat down significant portions of the post season in favor of veteran players (recently Robert Thomas, who coincidentally also had 33 points his rookie year, was scratched at times - mostly in the SCF - when the Blues won the Cup in 2019).

I don’t think there’s any hate or anything towards Newhook. He just had a rough end to the season. Not unusual for a rookie at all.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

This is a good post.

I've been here a long time, and I understand that this board simply needs a heel/scapegoat player at all times, no exceptions. And now that Jost is gone, Compher is that sacrificial lamb. Got it.

But honestly, I don't mind Compher as much as a lot of posters do. He's a classic 3rd/2nd line tweener, will put up 15ish goals/30ish points per season, plays a modestly decent brand of both offensive and defensive hockey, plays reasonably physically as well. He is what he is. What's not to like, really? My two beefs with him are 1) he spends way too much time on his ass (and back, and knees, etc) rather than on his skates, and 2) he makes about $500K-1M too much.

100% agree that he would be an underwhelming choice for 2C for any length of time. But aren't most teams in this position? What team wouldn't suffer if they lost a 1C or 2C for a significant length of time? If the Avs lose Kadri again during the playoffs, it's going to be painful. But looking forward to next season, could Newhook fill that role? Feels kind of iffy to me, though I suspect that Newhook still has upside/improvement that could quite likely happen over the next couple of years. Compher is what he is at this point.

If the Avs want to sign an established veteran 2C, that's going to be expensive. Not sure they have the cap space for that, unless they say goodbye to Nichushkin (I believe Kadri and Burakovski are both gone next season).

Yeah pretty much. I would even argue JTC isn't overpaid at all. I think 3.5M for 30-35 points is very fair. That's the going rate for 3rd liners at this point in time. We're going to give Lehkonen that same money this summer as well. The issue I think people have is that JTC isn't on a discount contract. When you have guys like Mack, Toews, Makar, even Landy right now all making like 3M+ less then they should be making it impacts how they look at a guy who's simply making the money he is worth.


In terms of the 2C spot. They have to get someone IMO. Can't rely on Newhook to be a 2C in the final year of Mackinnon making half of what he is worth and thus our last great shot at a cup. But, they should have some cap space to work with as well. Cap is going up 1M this year, and our bonus overage penalty goes from 1.8M to just 25k next year so between the two that's 2.75M in cap space next year that we didn't have this year.


If we assume Nuke signs for 5M, that 2.75M essentially covers his raise. Then if Kadri and Burakosvky walk as UFAs, that would be in theory 9.5M to work with. I think they can sign or trade for a 2C in the ~6M range fairly reasonably if they wanted too. Then target a cheap 2nd line winger to replace Burakosvky.


If they buy out EJ, that's another 4M in space as well. Even better if they can trade him somewhere else. They could also potentially use Sam Girard as a trade chip to get the 2C. Especially if he continues to have a solid playoffs and can get rid of some of the stink around him in the post season from the Vegas series last year.