2021 Off Season Discussion Thread

[Ranksu]

mikkola will have to get himself in the line up to be eligible for a d-zone start, much less an important one

mikkola is looking like lindbohm 2.0 so far, really needs to step up this year or he'll lose his spot to walman and others. he's a 7/8 guy currently.

You are absolutely right.

Last year was his so called first year.

So now we can wait more of him. I still have hopes him stepping up. Maybe is late bloomer.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Lindholm and Hanifin are my two top targets, but we'd be paying a strong price for both. Honestly, I think it's worth it. The window is more now than later and picks and prospects don't really do us much good. I'm a fan of the "sustained success" model over putting all of our chips on the table, but we've already burned that bridge by not re-signing Pietrangelo, whatever part the organization had in Tarasenko's shoulder woes, not bringing back Schwartz, and signing Schenn, Faulk, and Krug to big contracts. If we don't put the chips down now we're just half-assing both paths, and I don't see that going well for us.

 

[Reality Czech]

Lindholm from the Ducks or Soucy from the Kraken would probably be my top targets, though Lindholm might have to waiting until closer to the TDL to make it work.

Not a fan of the idea of adding Chara to our blueline, but my opinion is that we suffered more from a lack of speed and quickness on the back end last year than a lack of size.

We defintely lost some speed with Dunn's departure, but I also feel we could use another physical d-man to clear the front of the net and block shots. Chara would also greatly help our PK, which was a weakness on last year's team. Not ideal, but he does check a lot of boxes that we need, although not speed of course!

 

[MissouriMook]

Sanford has signed for 1 year at $2M per Blues Twitter.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Sanford has signed for 1 year at $2M per Blues Twitter.

I mean, eh. Takes him to UFA, not a horrible cap hit.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Gross, but what I expected. Hopefully this means we are trading him in a Tarasenko deal.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Sanford has signed for 1 year at $2M per Blues Twitter.

So ready for this relationship to be over. He's a decent depth option, but we have pretty good depth in the bottom-6. If we're not using that $2M on a better player, then I guess that doesn't matter, but we really need to turn some of this depth into a LHD.

 

[Majorityof1]

Sanford has signed for 1 year at $2M per Blues Twitter.

Well that dodges the arbitration bullet but it leaves less than $1.5M for Thomas. He is not the one I would have chosen to squeeze. Although as the one coming off a down season without arbitration rights, I guess it makes sense. Maybe we sign him at $2M as well, send MacMac or Clifford down, and run 13 forwards until we can move Tarasenko.

 

[Majorityof1]

We defintely lost some speed with Dunn's departure, but I also feel we could use another physical d-man to clear the front of the net and block shots. Chara would also greatly help our PK, which was a weakness on last year's team. Not ideal, but he does check a lot of boxes that we need, although not speed of course!

Both guys mentioned in the post you quoted are big and strong. Lindholm is 6'3" 205ish and Soucy is huge at 6'5" 215ish. They both skate a ton better than current Chara. They would be more expensive but would be long-term top-4 plays. Lindholm is elite defensively and can chip in some offense. He is easily a top pairing guy. He'd be talked about a ton more if he wasn't on the ducks. Soucy is a good defensive #4 D. There are ways to get net front defenders without signing guys with one foot in the old folks home

 

[MissouriMook]

Well that dodges the arbitration bullet but it leaves less than $1.5M for Thomas. He is not the one I would have chosen to squeeze. Although as the one coming off a down season without arbitration rights, I guess it makes sense. Maybe we sign him at $2M as well, send MacMac or Clifford down, and run 12 forwards until we can move Tarasenko.

The Cap Friendly roster includes 8 defensemen. Assuming they send Santini down, that leaves them $2,281,151 to sign Thomas and run with a 13/7/2 roster, which is more than enough money to sign Thomas.

 

[Majorityof1]

The Cap Friendly roster includes 8 defensemen. Assuming they send Santini down, that leaves them $2,281,151 to sign Thomas and run with a 13/7/2 roster, which is more than enough money to sign Thomas.

You most likely have to call Kostin up when you send Santini down. That's why I said less than $1.5M as Kostin costs more than Santini. Kostin is most likely making the starting 12 so he should be up.

With 14/7/2 we have less than $1.5M left for thomas. When I said send MacMac or Clifford down, I meant roll with 13, not 12 which was a typo. It would just be a different 13 than your example, but yea, it works. Most non-crunched cap teams run 14 forwards though which I prefer. We will have to either leave Kostin in the AHL or expose MacMac/clifford to waivers to run 13. I am fine with the latter, not at all with the former.

 

[Brian39]

You most likely have to call Kostin up when you send Santini down. That's why I said less than $1.5M as Kostin costs more than Santini. Kostin is most likely making the starting 12 so he should be up.

With 14/7/2 we have less than $1.5M left for thomas. When I said send MacMac or Clifford down, I meant roll with 13, not 12 which was a typo. It would just be a different 13 than your example, but yea, it works. Most non-crunched cap teams run 14 forwards though which I prefer. We will have to either leave Kostin in the AHL or expose MacMac/clifford to waivers to run 13. I am fine with the latter, not at all with the former.

He is fairly unlikely to make the starting 12 in a scenario where we don't move Sanford, Barby, or Tarasenko.

ROR, Perron, Schenn, Saad, Buch, Kyrou, Thomas, and Tarasenko are all locked in to top 9 roles. That leaves Sanford, Sunny, Barby, Clifford, Mac and Kostin fighting for a 3rd line LW spot and three 4th line spots. Kostin isn't forcing Sunny, Sanford or Barby out of the lineup for opening night and I'll be a bit surprised if he wins the 3rd line LW job over Sanford. So the team would be looking at him to play on the 4th line at the expense of risking Mac/Clifford to waivers.

I think it is more likely that they give him top minutes in the AHL with the intention of slotting him directly onto the 3rd line the instant Tarasenko is moved.

 

[Majorityof1]

He is fairly unlikely to make the starting 12 in a scenario where we don't move Sanford, Barby, or Tarasenko.

ROR, Perron, Schenn, Saad, Buch, Kyrou, Thomas, and Tarasenko are all locked in to top 9 roles. That leaves Sanford, Sunny, Barby, Clifford, Mac and Kostin fighting for a 3rd line LW spot and three 4th line spots. Kostin isn't forcing Sunny, Sanford or Barby out of the lineup for opening night and I'll be a bit surprised if he wins the 3rd line LW job over Sanford. So the team would be looking at him to play on the 4th line at the expense of risking Mac/Clifford to waivers.

I think it is more likely that they give him top minutes in the AHL with the intention of slotting him directly onto the 3rd line the instant Tarasenko is moved.

I think he will get a shot at that 3rd line wing. Even if he doesn't earn it, he should be on the 4th line. I think he is past the point where big AHL minutes are helpful. He got those two years ago. He needs NHL reps. Playing with fellow Russian Barbeshev on the fourth line and tasting NHL game would be helpful. He has a ton more upside than Clifford or MacMac.

Armstrong might disagree. He does tend to send the waiver-exempt player down and keep the vet around. But I think it would be a mistake if Klim shows NHL ability in training camp. Even if its not good enough to win a top 9 role.

Do you really think anyone is claiming Kostin or Clifford during the pre-season when everyone is having to send guys down. Much better players than thosse two make it through waivers during that time of year.

 

[sfvega]

I'll say it: Chara is a bum. He's easily the slowest player in the NHL. At this point, he'd be there simply to block shots on the PK, cross-check guys, and occasionally fight. We have that in Bortuzzo, and while he's slow, he's not as immobile as Chara.

Gross, but what I expected. Hopefully this means we are trading him in a Tarasenko deal.

Let's not get greedy. We need to move Tank's salary, but it would take some real wizardry to move him and a guy most Blues fans want to lose in the same deal. Will Scandella be in the same deal?

 

[simon IC]

I'll say it: Chara is a bum. He's easily the slowest player in the NHL. At this point, he'd be there simply to block shots on the PK, cross-check guys, and occasionally fight. We have that in Bortuzzo, and while he's slow, he's not as immobile as Chara.



Let's not get greedy. We need to move Tank's salary, but it would take some real wizardry to move him and a guy most Blues fans want to lose in the same deal. Will Scandella be in the same deal?

Okay, I am nit-picking here, but where do you get Bortuzzo being slow? He can move up the ice pretty quickly when he decides to pinch, and he recovers better than most of our defensemen. Now, choosing where to be when the puck goes the other way is a different matter, as well as what he decides to do if, God forbid, the puck comes his way. In terms of his skating, however, I'd put him at about the same as Faulk, Krug, and Scandella, and possibly better than one or two of those.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I would put Mikkola playing 100/100 times at d-zone start end of game vs. Krug or Faulk.

Negative. Krug and Faulk at least occasionally can get puck out of zone.

 

[Ranksu]

Negative. Krug and Faulk at least occasionally can get puck out of zone.

Yes, when opposite team scores.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

Once the dumpster fire of trying him on the Left side ended, i think Faulk has been our best/most consistent defender by far. Shocked he still gets so much hate. He also was one of our only good players the last 2 playoffs.

 

[Celtic Note]

He is fairly unlikely to make the starting 12 in a scenario where we don't move Sanford, Barby, or Tarasenko.

ROR, Perron, Schenn, Saad, Buch, Kyrou, Thomas, and Tarasenko are all locked in to top 9 roles. That leaves Sanford, Sunny, Barby, Clifford, Mac and Kostin fighting for a 3rd line LW spot and three 4th line spots. Kostin isn't forcing Sunny, Sanford or Barby out of the lineup for opening night and I'll be a bit surprised if he wins the 3rd line LW job over Sanford. So the team would be looking at him to play on the 4th line at the expense of risking Mac/Clifford to waivers.

I think it is more likely that they give him top minutes in the AHL with the intention of slotting him directly onto the 3rd line the instant Tarasenko is moved.

Are we really any concerned with waiving Clifford?

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Are we really any concerned with waiving Clifford?

My only concern is that he might clear.

 

[Spear]

Are we really any concerned with waiving Clifford?

I know I'm not. Don't see what he adds to the team. Toughness? I don't recall him standing up for anyone.

 

[BlueDream]

I know I'm not. Don't see what he adds to the team. Toughness? I don't recall him standing up for anyone.

He did 2 or 3 times but yeah, he’s underwhelming. He only had 2 hits in the Colorado series.

We definitely don’t need him in the lineup much. Kostin, Joshua and Mikkola can all provide some pop.

 

[sfvega]

Okay, I am nit-picking here, but where do you get Bortuzzo being slow? He can move up the ice pretty quickly when he decides to pinch, and he recovers better than most of our defensemen. Now, choosing where to be when the puck goes the other way is a different matter, as well as what he decides to do if, God forbid, the puck comes his way. In terms of his skating, however, I'd put him at about the same as Faulk, Krug, and Scandella, and possibly better than one or two of those.

Yeah, I really can't get behind that. If he was as good a skater as Faulk, I don't think he'd see the press box as much. He plays responsibly in his positioning, which is why he plays the PK when he does play. He just gets dusted 1-on-1. And I like Bortz, and as I said, I don't put him in Chara's category. But he's not exactly fleet of foot out there.

 

[Brian39]

I think he will get a shot at that 3rd line wing. Even if he doesn't earn it, he should be on the 4th line. I think he is past the point where big AHL minutes are helpful. He got those two years ago. He needs NHL reps. Playing with fellow Russian Barbeshev on the fourth line and tasting NHL game would be helpful. He has a ton more upside than Clifford or MacMac.

Armstrong might disagree. He does tend to send the waiver-exempt player down and keep the vet around. But I think it would be a mistake if Klim shows NHL ability in training camp. Even if its not good enough to win a top 9 role.

Do you really think anyone is claiming Kostin or Clifford during the pre-season when everyone is having to send guys down. Much better players than thosse two make it through waivers during that time of year.

I fully agree with all of this and Kostin would be in my opening night lineup. But the money given to Sanford and Barbie indicates that the organization feels that they play more important roles to the team than most of us do. I think that the ultimate plan is to give him a shot on the 3rd line wing, but that probably can't come until Tarasenko is moved out. He is a RW, so I'm not sure there is a ton of appetite to have him adjusting to the other side as he also adjusts to NHL speed.

I also think that it is fairly unlikely that we enter training camp without moving someone out. It was reported (I believe by JR?) that we were trying to move Sanford but didn't find a deal. The pending arbitration probably scared some teams off, but the cost certainty of a $2M cap hit might cause a couple teams to circle back. We also are still clearly working on a deal for Tarasenko, but who knows if we will get the value we want prior to opening night.

Ultimately, I will be borderline shocked if we don't see someone moved by the end of November. Having Kostin in the AHL until then isn't a big deal, especially if the plan is for him to take Tarasenko's spot when that deal gets done. Ideally, I want Kostin here all year and ideally the move getting him a top 9 spot happens before the season starts. But if that move doesn't get done in time then I think it is much more likely that he is sent to the AHL (even if it is just on paper) in order to work around the cap.

 

[EastVillageBlues]

We defintely lost some speed with Dunn's departure, but I also feel we could use another physical d-man to clear the front of the net and block shots. Chara would also greatly help our PK, which was a weakness on last year's team. Not ideal, but he does check a lot of boxes that we need, although not speed of course!