Speculation: 2021-22 Trade Thread VI : Who's your Dadonov?

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Seems like it was as much about team culture as anything. Parise was becoming a problem, constantly at it with coaches over his diminished role. Suter apparently had basically "owned" the dressing room for years, and they wanted to hand it over to the new wave.

But damn those are some heavy financial ramifications.

Ya lol that’s rough bad timing too cause they had a decent roster

 

[DavidBL]

idk why people continue to think a goalie that has been struggling to put up elite numbers is going to bring back a 26 year old forward who just put up 80 points. that would be a horrendous trade for Toronto. If Toronto is that desperate to move out salary; they won't start by moving Nylander to do so.

I mean, what's Gibbus value to us? Most here seem pretty happy to get a First and a good prospect. I think a decent comparable for Nylander and his contract status is actually Bobby Ryan. Obviously Nylander is producing more but scoring is also up and Ryan had 4x30 goal seasons. So we're looking at an additional asset to make up the difference as well as taking a cap dump. It doesn't seem that crazy to me. Not to mention Tor seems pretty desperate.

 

[dracom]

I mean, what's Gibbus value to us? Most here seem pretty happy to get a First and a good prospect. I think a decent comparable for Nylander and his contract status is actually Bobby Ryan. Obviously Nylander is producing more but scoring is also up and Ryan had 4x30 goal seasons. So we're looking at an additional asset to make up the difference as well as taking a cap dump. It doesn't seem that crazy to me. Not to mention Tor seems pretty desperate.

Im honestly gonna be shocked if we get a 1st+ good prospect for him alone. There’s too many question marks with him for any team looking to acquire him. The bobby ryan trade was forever ago in hockey terms, i dont really see the value in bringing it up tbh. Different times, different teams, different contexts entirely.

Toronto maybe desperate but I dont think they get better by moving Nylander for a goalie who may or may not be good enough for them. If they move Nylander i would assume it would be for defensive help or for a different style of forward.


When was the last time a struggling goalie got back a 26 year old 80 point forward as the main piece?

 

[DavidBL]

Im honestly gonna be shocked if we get a 1st+ good prospect for him alone. There’s too many question marks with him for any team looking to acquire him. The bobby ryan trade was forever ago in hockey terms, i dont really see the value in bringing it up tbh. Different times, different teams, different contexts entirely.

Toronto maybe desperate but I dont think they get better by moving Nylander for a goalie who may or may not be good enough for them. If they move Nylander i would assume it would be for defensive help or for a different style of forward.


When was the last time a struggling goalie got back a 26 year old 80 point forward as the main piece?

If his value is that low we shouldn't move him. Moving Gibson for Nylander doesn't happen I'm a vacuum. The deal proposed offers a LOT of cap space as well as addressing what many consider their biggest issue. Yes, you don't trade Nylander for Gibby if you don't believe he's the answer but my guess is if they don't think he is then they're looking elsewhere anyway. As for the last time it has happened, it hasn't that I can think of. You offered a very specific set of criteria. When was the last time a goalie in Gibbys situation was traded? The last time a repeat all star goalie in their prime was traded at all? It's a weird question that doesn't really prove anything.

 

[dracom]

If his value is that low we shouldn't move him. Moving Gibson for Nylander doesn't happen I'm a vacuum. The deal proposed offers a LOT of cap space as well as addressing what many consider their biggest issue. Yes, you don't trade Nylander for Gibby if you don't believe he's the answer but my guess is if they don't think he is then they're looking elsewhere anyway. As for the last time it has happened, it hasn't that I can think of. You offered a very specific set of criteria. When was the last time a goalie in Gibbys situation was traded? The last time a repeat all star goalie in their prime was traded at all? It's a weird question that doesn't really prove anything.

From what I understand it doesn’t seem like we’re moving Gibson at all anyway. I just don’t think teams are gonna be lining up to move a first and a prospect like (Knies or robertson) or someone like Nylander even with dumping cap. If Toronto needs cap space they would be better off doing so in a separate deal.

You brought up the Bobby ryan trade despite it having no relevance to the discussion but give me grief for asking when a goalie like Gibson got traded for the price some fans are asking for…. How about when’s the last time a goalie brought back something close to a player like Nylander? goalies just don’t return that kind of value.

I don’t really care if he was an all-star, that doesn’t really mean that much. His performance over the last few seasons means more. If he gets traded it’s not gonna be in a deal where we get a forward in their prime who would immediately be our best offensive player is all im really saying.

 

[Mr Rogers]

Even a Gibson that is performing well doesn't return a forward like Nylander in any trade.

 

[DavidBL]

From what I understand it doesn’t seem like we’re moving Gibson at all anyway. I just don’t think teams are gonna be lining up to move a first and a prospect like (Knies or robertson) or someone like Nylander even with dumping cap. If Toronto needs cap space they would be better off doing so in a separate deal.

You brought up the Bobby ryan trade despite it having no relevance to the discussion but give me grief for asking when a goalie like Gibson got traded for the price some fans are asking for…. How about when’s the last time a goalie brought back something close to a player like Nylander? goalies just don’t return that kind of value.

I don’t really care if he was an all-star, that doesn’t really mean that much. His performance over the last few seasons means more. If he gets traded it’s not gonna be in a deal where we get a forward in their prime who would immediately be our best offensive player is all im really saying.

The relevance of the Ryan trade is to establish value. Both he and Nylander were/are top line forwards. Both have 2 years of contract left. Both were like 25 or 26. Why shouldn't it have relevance? Because you said so. Just because it wasn't 30 years ago. It was still in the cap Era. The same issues affect the teams. If anything scoring is up making Nylanders accomplishments less impressive compared to their peers. How are you determining Nylanders value?

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Even a Gibson that is performing well doesn't return a forward like Nylander in any trade.

A top starting goaltender wouldn't bring back a goal scoring top-6 forward?

 

[Deuce22]

A top starting goaltender wouldn't bring back a goal scoring top-6 forward?

He's not a top starting goaltender. He's been average or below for the past three seasons.

 

[tomd]

He's not a top starting goaltender. He's been average or below for the past three seasons.

It's the chicken and egg syndrome at work here. Does a team make a goalie bad or vice versa?

I think in Gibson's case, teams that are interested in him know that it is not a talent issue but a motivation and competitive issue. Put Gibson on a team like Washington or Toronto and his stats will skyrocket. Even an improving Buffalo. Somewhere that he can feel like he is in a competitive situation. Keep him in Anaheim and we'll see more of the same.

In answer to the question I posed, I'm not for trading Gibson because he is suddenly bad but because he'll never be good in Anaheim again.

 

[Deuce22]

It's the chicken and egg syndrome at work here. Does a team make a goalie bad or vice versa?

I think in Gibson's case, teams that are interested in him know that it is not a talent issue but a motivation and competitive issue. Put Gibson on a team like Washington or Toronto and his stats will skyrocket. Even an improving Buffalo. Somewhere that he can feel like he is in a competitive situation. Keep him in Anaheim and we'll see more of the same.

In answer to the question I posed, I'm not for trading Gibson because he is suddenly bad but because he'll never be good in Anaheim again.

Agree with you in principle, but I think many Duck fans overrate how much he can fetch in trade. Would you give up prime assets for someone with a "motivation and competitive issue?"

 

[tomd]

Agree with you in principle, but I think many Duck fans overrate how much he can fetch in trade. Would you give up prime assets for someone with a "motivation and competitive issue?"

Those issues are a two-edged sword. If I'm a team with a good roster and serious SC aspirations, Gibson is exactly the goalie I want (given all those who are realistically available). Under those conditions his motivation and competitiveness become huge assets...not huge liabilities. I think GM's around the league can see that since they deal in player psychology all the time.

 

[Ducks DVM]

HIm honestly gonna be shocked if we get a 1st+ good prospect for him alone. There’s too many question marks with him for any team looking to acquire him. The bobby ryan trade was forever ago in hockey terms, i dont really see the value in bringing it up tbh. Different times, different teams, different contexts entirely.

Toronto maybe desperate but I dont think they get better by moving Nylander for a goalie who may or may not be good enough for them. If they move Nylander i would assume it would be for defensive help or for a different style of forward.


When was the last time a struggling goalie got back a 26 year old 80 point forward as the main piece?

There’s a bit of smoke and mirrors with Nylander. 31 of those 80 points were on the PP (leading the team), and he was dead last on the entire team at -9. And that’s in spite of being the 3rd most sheltered regular on the team. He will be against stiffer competition and have less to far less help here, held out on his last contract, and will not be wanting to stick around another losing franchise when he’s UFA in 2 years.…and 28.

He’s exactly not the type of player that Verbeek has said he’s looking to add.

 

[dracom]

The relevance of the Ryan trade is to establish value. Both he and Nylander were/are top line forwards. Both have 2 years of contract left. Both were like 25 or 26. Why shouldn't it have relevance? Because you said so. Just because it wasn't 30 years ago. It was still in the cap Era. The same issues affect the teams. If anything scoring is up making Nylanders accomplishments less impressive compared to their peers. How are you determining Nylanders value?

Value isnt the same from trade to trade just because two players have similar contact lengths and offensive production. Especially ones that happen almost 10 years ago. That’s my personal opinion, feel free to disagree. since offensive production is up league wide that somehow makes their offensive production less impressive? That’s ridiculous lol

Im determining Nylanders value based on his role in Toronto, his relatively cheap deal compared to their other forwards, and his offensive production. A near PPG winger who had plays on the 2nd line will always be more valuable than a struggling goalie. Also since no goalie has ever returned a forward like Nylander, a struggling Gibson isn’t gonna be the first one to do so. Teams may think he’s the solution but they aren’t going to pay a top 5 goalie price for someone who hasnt been that in three years.

There’s a bit of smoke and mirrors with Nylander. 31 of those 80 points were on the PP (leading the team), and he was dead last on the entire team at -9. And that’s in spite of being the 3rd most sheltered regular on the team. He will be against stiffer competition and have less to far less help here, held out on his last contract, and will not be wanting to stick around another losing franchise when he’s UFA in 2 years.…and 28.

He’s exactly not the type of player that Verbeek has said he’s looking to add.

So we agree gibson for Nylander isnt gonna happen? Cool.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Value isnt the same from trade to trade just because two players have similar contact lengths and offensive production. Especially ones that happen almost 10 years ago. That’s my personal opinion, feel free to disagree. since offensive production is up league wide that somehow makes their offensive production less impressive? That’s ridiculous lol

Im determining Nylanders value based on his role in Toronto, his relatively cheap deal compared to their other forwards, and his offensive production. A near PPG winger who had plays on the 2nd line will always be more valuable than a struggling goalie. Also since no goalie has ever returned a forward like Nylander, a struggling Gibson isn’t gonna be the first one to do so. Teams may think he’s the solution but they aren’t going to pay a top 5 goalie price for someone who hasnt been that in three years.


we agree gibson for Nylander isnt gonna happen? Cool.

Absolutely. He’s not going to produce as well on another team, and shouldn’t command a price accordingly. He’s also not a hard player to play against, and in the proper age category for the rebuild, or leadership material, or likely to be anything but trade bait at the ‘24 deadline to further extend the rebuild. I honestly don’t understand the fascination with him.he’s a good pickup for a team who’s close to contending, or who needs that last offensive punch. He’s not a core building block that other core assets should be spent on.

 

[DavidBL]

Value isnt the same from trade to trade just because two players have similar contact lengths and offensive production. Especially ones that happen almost 10 years ago. That’s my personal opinion, feel free to disagree. since offensive production is up league wide that somehow makes their offensive production less impressive? That’s ridiculous lol

Im determining Nylanders value based on his role in Toronto, his relatively cheap deal compared to their other forwards, and his offensive production. A near PPG winger who had plays on the 2nd line will always be more valuable than a struggling goalie. Also since no goalie has ever returned a forward like Nylander, a struggling Gibson isn’t gonna be the first one to do so. Teams may think he’s the solution but they aren’t going to pay a top 5 goalie price for someone who hasnt been that in three years.

How else to you generate a basis of value then to compare similar players and what they actually returned in trade. Do you have a more recent example? How much does that change the perceived accepted value? It's accepted as teams went through with. Why is it no longer relevant today? Does scoring up reduce Nylanders achievements I wasn't saying that. I'm establishing a comparison and the biggest difference between the 2 players is Nylander is more productive. But how much more? He's still an 80 pts player. But what would he have been 10 years ago?
What makes you think it's not a fair comparison?
As for Gibby, if teams won't pay the price we need we shouldn't trade him. Why are we so okay with selling low on one of our most talented players? To me, I'd teams think he's the solution they feel he's the goalie who we know he can be and not just what the stats show the last few years. I guess I'm just not willing to sell low on him.

Absolutely. He’s not going to produce as well on another team, and shouldn’t command a price accordingly. He’s also not a hard player to play against, and in the proper age category for the rebuild, or leadership material, or likely to be anything but trade bait at the ‘24 deadline to further extend the rebuild. I honestly don’t understand the fascination with him.he’s a good pickup for a team who’s close to contending, or who needs that last offensive punch. He’s not a core building block that other core assets should be spent on.

In this situation what core assets are we giving up? Mist think Gibby isn't worth much. He's not 28 now. He's 26. What a year older than Terry? Contract negotiations is a fair concern.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

My concerns with trading for Nylander are similar to Laine. I don't really think they are guys you win with unless they are an expensive luxury as your 3rd or 4th best forward. But both are going to want elite/star level money and be paid like they are one of your top two guys.

 

[bsu]

Rumors flying lol

 

[DavidBL]

My concerns with trading for Nylander are similar to Laine. I don't really think they are guys you win with unless they are an expensive luxury as your 3rd or 4th best forward. But both are going to want elite/star level money and be paid like they are one of your top two guys.

I think it's fair. Both seem to have expressed some more selfish tendencies though I'm not sure contract negotiations should be held against players. Imo Laine would be one of your best players if not THE best. I'd hope the scouts do their due diligence on any player we acquire.

Rumors flying lol

I feel the Devils with #2 make the most sense there.

 

[MMC]

Would you guys trade #10 for Dach?

 

[Ducks DVM]

How else to you generate a basis of value then to compare similar players and what they actually returned in trade. Do you have a more recent example? How much does that change the perceived accepted value? It's accepted as teams went through with. Why is it no longer relevant today? Does scoring up reduce Nylanders achievements I wasn't saying that. I'm establishing a comparison and the biggest difference between the 2 players is Nylander is more productive. But how much more? He's still an 80 pts player. But what would he have been 10 years ago?
What makes you think it's not a fair comparison?
As for Gibby, if teams won't pay the price we need we shouldn't trade him. Why are we so okay with selling low on one of our most talented players? To me, I'd teams think he's the solution they feel he's the goalie who we know he can be and not just what the stats show the last few years. I guess I'm just not willing to sell low on him.

In this situation what core assets are we giving up? Mist think Gibby isn't worth much. He's not 28 now. He's 26. What a year older than Terry? Contract negotiations is a fair concern.

We are giving up a proven above average to top 5 NHL starter (not gonna wade into where, specifically). The teams currently wanting him have great rosters being held back by…substandard NHL starters. IF he is to be traded, with the franchise uncertainty that will bring, because neither Stolarz nor Dostal have proven squat about being that guy, IMO it should be for pieces that are actually in line Verbeek’s vision, which is allegedly character veterans to teach work ethic through the entire franchise, young players who are hard to play against and ready to contribute, and high enough draft picks to make a difference in his stared 3-5 year target window. Get reasonably high picks and prospects that have reasonable chances of being on this team, don’t buy a corvette when you live in an area made up of dirt roads.

Terry is RFA, will be 25 when he reaches that status, and both acts like and says he wishes to be a team leader. Gibson has 5 years of control. Nylander will be UFA after 2 seasons, will be 28 when he gets there, and has never been spoken of as a team leader as best I know, held out on his RFA contract, and has never been past the first round of the playoffs. He isn’t good enough to move the team into the playoffs, just to make the draft pick worse.

Players have every right to get as much money as they can, and I certainly don’t begrudge them that right. However, non-elite players who do so (as well as most of them too) need to take a long hard look in the mirror when the franchise can’t get past the first round because they are a piece of two short due to cap constraints.

 

[bsu]

I'd look into nick Paul and kubalik (ducks were already interested) sounds like Chicago might not qualify so it should be cheap and an opportunity.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Would you guys trade #10 for Dach?

No. Ducks got too many 3Cs as it is and i'm not really a fan of Dach now or back in 2019 draft.
Although Dach a Duck sounds nice. Dach dach dach goose.
Would rather roll the dice on another center like Lambert, Savoie, Kasper or Gauthier(whoever Madden & Verbeek like the most).

 

[All Mighty]

Would you guys trade #10 for Dach?

Nope

 

[bsu]

I'd think about Comtois for Dach.