Speculation: 2021-22 Sharks Roster Discussion part IX

[Pinkfloyd]

"Hey boys, we're gonna suck on purpose...I know its gonna be brutal and you're gonna have to get used to losing...I promise it'll pay off once we draft some better players".

If they're sucking on accident then someone should be held accountable.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

If they're sucking on accident then someone should be held accountable.

I agree

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

How are the Sharks approaching Hertl contract status right now? Are they planning to re-sign him or looking to move him at the TDL?

I really hoped Hertl was one of the players who retired a Shark so hope he stays on.

 

[stator]

The length of Kane's contract is prohibitive at anything other than 75% retention and it would easily cost a 1st round pick to entice a team to retain 25% for four years.

I think it's reasonable to assume that is what other GMs are waiting for... 75% discount for the risk. A buyout at that discount would not mess with their cap space much at all.

If a 50% discount was attractive, we'd see some teams jump already, but we don't. That of course, assumes the reporting of Sharks willing to retain 50% are true.

 

[spintops]

Option 1 - Resign Hertl. Seems less and less likely as time passes by
Option 2 - Trade Hertl - IF this happens we are even further away from competing and have to trade one of Logan/Burns. They are only getting older and we will really be in a rebuild, get something for them why we can.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Option 1 - Resign Hertl. Seems less and less likely as time passes by
Option 2 - Trade Hertl - IF this happens we are even further away from competing and have to trade one of Logan/Burns. They are only getting older and we will really be in a rebuild, get something for them why we can.

Legitimate option 3 is be just close enough to competing for a playoff spot that the team keeps Hertl and loses him in the off-season.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Hertl for a first and a good prospect. Flames have a couple and are looking to compete this year.

Barabanov for a 2nd to a contender
Nieto, Cogliano, Bonino for anything at the deadline
Reimer to Colorado or maybe Edmonton for some picks

Burns for anything and retain salary
Kane for anything and retain salary

Draft top 10.

Run next year with Hill in net, a forward group of prospects and Couture, a defense of Karlsson and Merkley, and wait 2-3 years of pure unadulterated suckage while prospects develop.

 

[tealzamboni]

Hertl for a first and a good prospect. Flames have a couple and are looking to compete this year.

Barabanov for a 2nd to a contender
Nieto, Cogliano, Bonino for anything at the deadline
Reimer to Colorado or maybe Edmonton for some picks

Burns for anything and retain salary
Kane for anything and retain salary

Draft top 10.

Run next year with Hill in net, a forward group of prospects and Couture, a defense of Karlsson and Merkley, and wait 2-3 years of pure unadulterated suckage while prospects develop.

A possible hitch is that the development plan will be drawn up by the same madmen that bet $92 million on turning Karlsson into the next Boyle (no disrespect).

 

[themelkman]

Hertl + Reimer to Colorado for Newhook and a first? That would be awesome

 

[Anomie2029]

Hertl for a first and a good prospect. Flames have a couple and are looking to compete this year.

Barabanov for a 2nd to a contender
Nieto, Cogliano, Bonino for anything at the deadline
Reimer to Colorado or maybe Edmonton for some picks

Burns for anything and retain salary
Kane for anything and retain salary

Draft top 10.

Run next year with Hill in net, a forward group of prospects and Couture, a defense of Karlsson and Merkley, and wait 2-3 years of pure unadulterated suckage while prospects develop.

2-3 years of suckage is very optimistic.
You’ll be looking at 7 years minimum imo, and even then I don’t think 10 years is too much.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

2-3 years of suckage is very optimistic.
You’ll be looking at 7 years minimum imo, and even then I don’t think 10 years is too much.

Even if true, you're only prolonging the timeframe by putting it off. This team isn't competitive and isn't going to be until drastic measures are taken.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Slated to pick 13th now.

After selling, we can probably suck enough to get down to 6th-10th.

Maybe we luck out and get a lottery win.


Picks that should be in our range:

Nazar - Can’t see us drafting him due to size and having too many small f prospects already.

Yurov - Big frame, two way winger. Skills are there, but production is a little lacking. Already played in the KHL, but with disappointing results, but the coach also gives him zero ice time(he got 0:45 toi recently). Wouldn’t be upset with this pick, depending on who’s on the board.

Nemec - My ideal pick. Good sized RD, good skater, high motor, 200ft player, high hockey IQ. Might be gone before our pick though.

McGroarty - Stalky power forward C with some skating issues, but skilled.

Miroshnichenko - Ranked everywhere from 2nd to 15th. Good size, elite skater, elite shot, but seems to be more of a passenger. Could be dynamite with Eklund feeding him though. Very boom or bust.

Lambert - Similar strengths as Eklund, but a little bigger. He’s probably gone unless we start the tank now. Safe pick with potential to be very good.

Jiricek - Tall, great skating, RD who likes to activate. Big shot. Just blew out his knee, out for the year. Tons of potential though.

Salomonsson - Could probably trade down and still get him. RD. Good size, good skater, full 200 foot game, and also one of the younger players in the draft.

 

[hohosaregood]

Slated to pick 13th now.

After selling, we can probably suck enough to get down to 6th-10th.

Maybe we luck out and get a lottery win.


Picks that should be in our range:

Nazar - Can’t see us drafting him due to size and having too many small f prospects already.

Yurov - Big frame, two way winger. Skills are there, but production is a little lacking. Already played in the KHL, but with disappointing results, but the coach also gives him zero ice time(he got 0:45 toi recently). Wouldn’t be upset with this pick, depending on who’s on the board.

Nemec - My ideal pick. Good sized RD, good skater, high motor, 200ft player, high hockey IQ. Might be gone before our pick though.

McGroarty - Stalky power forward C with some skating issues, but skilled.

Miroshnichenko - Ranked everywhere from 2nd to 15th. Good size, elite skater, elite shot, but seems to be more of a passenger. Could be dynamite with Eklund feeding him though. Very boom or bust.

Lambert - Similar strengths as Eklund, but a little bigger. He’s probably gone unless we start the tank now. Safe pick with potential to be very good.

Jiricek - Tall, great skating, RD who likes to activate. Big shot. Just blew out his knee, out for the year. Tons of potential though.

Salomonsson - Could probably trade down and still get him. RD. Good size, good skater, full 200 foot game, and also one of the younger players in the draft.

Based on the descriptions and past drafting strats, would guess Lambert > Nemec > Nazar

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Based on the descriptions and past drafting strats, would guess Lambert > Nemec > Nazar

I can see them trading down this year unless they’re really high on a guy that’s on the board. 5-15ish seem to have good skills, but not enough production over 15-25 unless you’re sure the skills will transfer and the production will come around. Also a lot of smaller wingers and offensive RHD projected for those picks too, which I could see us passing over.

 

[Karl Prime]

If all things are equal I'm guessing they go for a D-man but that's just because most of their top prospects are forwards and they don't have many decent D prospects in junior (Laroque and Kashnikov basically).

 

[tiburon12]

Regardless of how they do it, they need to bring in legit #1 goalie talent at the prospect level, maybe even a few options. Reimer has been fine but he's not a long-term solution. We need a franchise guy like Gibson or Hellebuyck or Vasilevskiy or Sheshterkin that the team can consistently rely on.

 

[matt trick]

Regardless of how they do it, they need to bring in legit #1 goalie talent at the prospect level, maybe even a few options. Reimer has been fine but he's not a long-term solution. We need a franchise guy like Gibson or Hellebuyck or Vasilevskiy or Sheshterkin that the team can consistently rely on.

I want to say I read that this draft isn’t great for goalies. We’ve neglected that position for so long, desperately need to find a goalie of the future. Maybe it’s Gaudreau, but we need multiple options.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Next year is not the year for goalies. There's no high end guy like the last few years (Wallstedt, Cossa, Askarov, Knight) and with Gaudreau looking solid, I'd rather any pick in the first half of the draft be a skater.

With the lack of D in our system, and the 2023 draft almost entirely being forwards in the top-10, the ideal targets should be Nemec and Jiricek. In all honestly though, I'm hoping we trade Hertl and get a second 1st rounder, so we can use our own pick to grab another forward early, and land a defenseman later in the first round (Mateychuk, Luneau, Nelson, etc.)

Other forwards that @TheWayToRefJose didn't mention:

Geekie: 6'4 center with offensive upside to become a real force.

Cooley: Highest ranked american this year. Is one of the safer picks to become a center in pros, and is said to be very solid defensively.

Kemmell: Goal scoring RW (a need we have) that is having a terrific year in liiga.

Slafkovsky: Like Geekie, another huge forward that to me is some mixture of Meier/Rantanen in playing style. Probably more of a long term project compared to some of the others.

 

[matt trick]

Next year is not the year for goalies. There's no high end guy like the last few years (Wallstedt, Cossa, Askarov, Knight) and with Gaudreau looking solid, I'd rather any pick in the first half of the draft be a skater.

With the lack of D in our system, and the 2023 draft almost entirely being forwards in the top-10, the ideal targets should be Nemec and Jiricek. In all honestly though, I'm hoping we trade Hertl and get a second 1st rounder, so we can use our own pick to grab another forward early, and land a defenseman later in the first round (Mateychuk, Luneau, Nelson, etc.)

Other forwards that @TheWayToRefJose didn't mention:

Geekie: 6'4 center with offensive upside to become a real force.

Cooley: Highest ranked american this year. Is one of the safer picks to become a center in pros, and is said to be very solid defensively.

Kemmell: Goal scoring RW (a need we have) that is having a terrific year in liiga.

Slafkovsky: Like Geekie, another huge forward that to me is some mixture of Meier/Rantanen in playing style. Probably more of a long term project compared to some of the others.

My hunch is we'll end up with a top ten pick, and I'm not sure there's a massive difference between 3 and 10. With some luck maybe that results in another Eklund-caliber prospect.

Regrettably, I don't see Hertl staying, but as long as we don't get cute and let him walk after the season, it may be for the best. If we could get a Robbins-level prospect (i.e. shot at top 6 fwd, good performance and progression, but lacking something that keeps them from being a blue chip) and a 1st, I'd be content with that. Ideally we get someone better, but not sure the market will offer more.

I agree with you that if you can't get a top 2-3 d prospect, you have a better shot getting one of the better d prospects late than you do with a forward. This draft also has a ton of skilled smallish d-men, so I like the odds of getting a good one in the 20-32 range.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

My hunch is we'll end up with a top ten pick, and I'm not sure there's a massive difference between 3 and 10. With some luck maybe that results in another Eklund-caliber prospect.

Regrettably, I don't see Hertl staying, but as long as we don't get cute and let him walk after the season, it may be for the best. If we could get a Robbins-level prospect (i.e. shot at top 6 fwd, good performance and progression, but lacking something that keeps them from being a blue chip) and a 1st, I'd be content with that. Ideally we get someone better, but not sure the market will offer more.

I agree with you that if you can't get a top 2-3 d prospect, you have a better shot getting one of the better d prospects late than you do with a forward. This draft also has a ton of skilled smallish d-men, so I like the odds of getting a good one in the 20-32 range.

I think getting a Robins level prospect in a Hertl trade would be disappointing. I'm not expecting a top-prospect in the league, but drafting in the mid/late first should get us a prospect that would slide right in behind Eklund, but above Bordeleau/Merkley/etc. in the second tier.

 

[Cas]

Well, Jasper Weatherby is soon to be a top-six NHL forward, so I think those of us skeptical that he'd ever make it (myself included) have some crow to eat.

 

[matt trick]

I think getting a Robins level prospect in a Hertl trade would be disappointing. I'm not expecting a top-prospect in the league, but drafting in the mid/late first should get us a prospect that would slide right in behind Eklund, but above Bordeleau/Merkley/etc. in the second tier.

I'm talking in addition to a 1st. So a 1st+2nd or equivalent prospect. Someone posted Lundell+1st earlier. I don't think we'll get someone of that caliber, but a 1st and a lesser prospect seems viable.

 

[hohosaregood]

I'm talking in addition to a 1st. So a 1st+2nd or equivalent prospect. Someone posted Lundell+1st earlier. I don't think we'll get someone of that caliber, but a 1st and a lesser prospect seems viable.

I threw that out there as a sign and trade deal that I would be pretty happy about. As a pure rental, I wouldn't expect nearly as much for sure

 

[LadyStanley]

More grist for the mill

 

[Jargon]

I love Hertl and wouldn’t hate it if he re-signed but the idea of getting a second first in deep draft and a good prospect is extremely enticing.