GDT: 2021-22 season game 11 LA Kings vs New Jersey Devils @7:30pm 11/5/21

[Stimpythecat]

AK should play with AK and AK to form the AK line.

so when are we trading for goalie Anton Khudobin, and can alex killorn or alex kerfoot play D?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

so when are we trading for goalie Anton Khudobin, and can alex killorn or alex kerfoot play D?

Artemi Knyazev can!

 

[FSL KINGS]

Just to check... this is parody/sarcasm, right? The biggest clue is the suggestion that Kempe can carry a line.

You're missing the point. Kempe can carry a puck up ice & get in on the forecheck. Kopitar & Brown can't do that effectively & need someone who can. Arvidsson & Andersson are 2 players that will fit well in that position. Kaliyev may work eventually, but 11 games into his career he isn't there yet.

I can't be the only one watching the Kopi line camping out in the D-zone for the 1st period. There was a reason the line blender came out. Todd was so desperate he even split up 19/24/9.

Think your hate of Todd & Kempe is clouding your judgement. They had a good game.

 

[King'sPawn]

You're missing the point. Kempe can carry a puck up ice & get in on the forecheck. Kopitar & Brown can't do that effectively & need someone who can. Arvidsson & Andersson are 2 players that will fit well in that position. Kaliyev may work eventually, but 11 games into his career he isn't there yet.

I can't be the only one watching the Kopi line camping out in the D-zone for the 1st period. There was a reason the line blender came out. Todd was so desperate he even split up 19/24/9.

Think your hate of Todd & Kempe is clouding your judgement. They had a good game.

Ah, so you drew a conclusion based off criticism that I "hate" Kempe and MacLellan.

I have literally said MacLellan should have until season's end. After that, if the Kings can't make the playoffs, then there needs to be a major reevaluation of the organization, mostly because Blake set these expectations.

Kempe... I literally said I don't dislike him. Just not on the first line where his lack of discipline and inability to learn from his mistakes are liabilities.

I'm not expecting you to keep track of where people stand, but if you want to start laying claim to who someone hates you need to target your statements a bit more strategically.

You must have missed where Kopitar had one of the best chances in the first period. So... saying they were camping the defensive zone is a bit off the mark.

Kempe got a promotion after causing a 4 minute penalty kill. Kaliyev wasn't just demoted. He was tossed to the 4th line for... what?

If you think a coach's management of players, particularly younger ones as they try to incorporate a younger core, can't be questioned or criticized (or we are only doing it because we're "haters") then there's no discussing things further with you.

I'm happy it worked out and that Kempe scored. I just don't think Kempe has shown he can be counted on for the top line on a regular basis.

 

[Sparky206]

I'm not sure how people are missing it but has Kaliyev won a board battle this season? Once the puck hits those boards its all over for him, he just cant get it out and the opposition have a better first step on him if he does.

Hes been getting thrown down the lineup because hes the opposite of Iafollo and Danault, he just cant maintain possession once it gets up along the boards.

Dont get me wrong, the kid is special and has earned and taken his chance, he just has a glaring issue that he needs to figure out to be able to play in the top 6. He absolutely should be in the lineup for the entire season and given every opportunity to learn at this level. This is the season for it and if he can figure it out he'll be a weapon because hes fantastic with the puck on his stick.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Ah, so you drew a conclusion based off criticism that I "hate" Kempe and MacLellan.

I have literally said MacLellan should have until season's end. After that, if the Kings can't make the playoffs, then there needs to be a major reevaluation of the organization, mostly because Blake set these expectations.

Kempe... I literally said I don't dislike him. Just not on the first line where his lack of discipline and inability to learn from his mistakes are liabilities.

I'm not expecting you to keep track of where people stand, but if you want to start laying claim to who someone hates you need to target your statements a bit more strategically.

You must have missed where Kopitar had one of the best chances in the first period. So... saying they were camping the defensive zone is a bit off the mark.

Kempe got a promotion after causing a 4 minute penalty kill. Kaliyev wasn't just demoted. He was tossed to the 4th line for... what?

If you think a coach's management of players, particularly younger ones as they try to incorporate a younger core, can't be questioned or criticized (or we are only doing it because we're "haters") then there's no discussing things further with you.

I'm happy it worked out and that Kempe scored. I just don't think Kempe has shown he can be counted on for the top line on a regular basis.

*Not the top line anymore. It's sad but Kopi & Brown have really slipped in their play.

Todd must make the playoffs in a transition year without Doughty or Walker? Ok.

Kaliyev's line was getting hemmed in. Not necessarily his fault. Lines needed to be moved around. You aren't putting Kaliyev on the 24, 19 line. They get the D draws. So that leaves the 3rd & 4th lines. AA got bumped up from the 4th so that's where Kaliyev ended up. Not a big deal. Kaliyev is 11 games into his NHL career. He isn't a 1st line player yet.

Kempe: It would be nice to have a player better than him to fill a hole on Kopi's line. With the forward prospects taking their time & 4 forwards out, there isn't a better option right now. Maybe Lias will be back Monday.

Got no problem questioning Todd's decisions. Why he went to the line blender against NJ was easy to see.

 

[King'sPawn]

*Not the top line anymore. It's sad but Kopi & Brown have really slipped in their play.

Not the top line? Kopitar has slipped? Might want to tell that to MacLellan. Kopitar is averaging 21+ minutes per game. Danault would have to play and Kopitar would have to play a drum cadence with his butt cheeks on the bench for 40 straight minutes for them to have the same average ice time.

Danault is being outscored by Dustin "play has really slipped" Brown.

Alex Iafallo's peak-game performance is 3 points, which he has accomplished once. This season. Kopitar had his 5-point game. And 3 more multi-point games. Iafallo now has 2 multi-point games this year.

So nobody has greater responsibility or production/success, but Kopitar's line isn't the No. 1 line and they're slipping? By what metric are you using? Your eye test which also ignored/missed the best scoring chance of the period, where you claimed Kopitar's line was sitting in the defensive zone all period?

Todd must make the playoffs in a transition year without Doughty or Walker? Ok.

Blake set these expectations. And note I said nothing about firing MacLellan, though it's a likely outcome.

Transition year was the last two seasons. He's still leaning on the vets. If, say, Kaliyev and other rookies were getting top line time, then it would call for more patience.

Kaliyev's line was getting hemmed in. Not necessarily his fault. Lines needed to be moved around. You aren't putting Kaliyev on the 24, 19 line. They get the D draws. So that leaves the 3rd & 4th lines. AA got bumped up from the 4th so that's where Kaliyev ended up. Not a big deal. Kaliyev is 11 games into his NHL career. He isn't a 1st line player yet.

So your top line is the shutdown line? Man. I remember Kopitar leading the team in scoring when he had to do the same thing for 14 seasons. If he's slipping, what's that say about Danault who can tie Kopitar in scoring once he Sam Gagner's it and gets 9 points in a game?

And WHY did AA get bumped up? What did he do to earn it over anyone else?

Why not bump Iafallo up to Kopitar's line? He always plays LW. He played with Kopitar before. If Kempe is so great at what he does, then keeping him on Danault's line, where they get more defensive zone draws, would benefit from having the catalyst for defensive zone breakouts, don'tcha think?

Kempe: It would be nice to have a player better than him to fill a hole on Kopi's line. With the forward prospects taking their time & 4 forwards out, there isn't a better option right now. Maybe Lias will be back Monday.

Iafallo's better. Lemieux, hilariously, is more disciplined (he just has more PIMs because he actually fights). Grundstrom would have been a big question mark, but he has the benefit of fewer PIMs incurred this entire season than Kempe in the first period.

Got no problem questioning Todd's decisions. Why he went to the line blender against NJ was easy to see.

The entire 1st period was flat soda for both teams. Changes are fine. Promoting the least disciplined forward who has struggled to learn from repeated errors is not.

Again, it worked out for the game. Great. But it's a questionable decision, like pulling the goalie when you have a lead. I'm not complaining about the win. I'm concerned about decision-making and how much responsibility and slack Kempe is getting relative to younger players.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm not sure how people are missing it but has Kaliyev won a board battle this season? Once the puck hits those boards its all over for him, he just cant get it out and the opposition have a better first step on him if he does.

Hes been getting thrown down the lineup because hes the opposite of Iafollo and Danault, he just cant maintain possession once it gets up along the boards.

Dont get me wrong, the kid is special and has earned and taken his chance, he just has a glaring issue that he needs to figure out to be able to play in the top 6. He absolutely should be in the lineup for the entire season and given every opportunity to learn at this level. This is the season for it and if he can figure it out he'll be a weapon because hes fantastic with the puck on his stick.

He's won a few, but certainly not consistently. But he's been MUCH more noticable on the forecheck lately. Showing learning and progression.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Not the top line? Kopitar has slipped? Might want to tell that to MacLellan. Kopitar is averaging 21+ minutes per game. Danault would have to play and Kopitar would have to play a drum cadence with his butt cheeks on the bench for 40 straight minutes for them to have the same average ice time.

Danault is being outscored by Dustin "play has really slipped" Brown.

Alex Iafallo's peak-game performance is 3 points, which he has accomplished once. This season. Kopitar had his 5-point game. And 3 more multi-point games. Iafallo now has 2 multi-point games this year.

So nobody has greater responsibility or production/success, but Kopitar's line isn't the No. 1 line and they're slipping? By what metric are you using? Your eye test which also ignored/missed the best scoring chance of the period, where you claimed Kopitar's line was sitting in the defensive zone all period?



Blake set these expectations. And note I said nothing about firing MacLellan, though it's a likely outcome.

Transition year was the last two seasons. He's still leaning on the vets. If, say, Kaliyev and other rookies were getting top line time, then it would call for more patience.



So your top line is the shutdown line? Man. I remember Kopitar leading the team in scoring when he had to do the same thing for 14 seasons. If he's slipping, what's that say about Danault who can tie Kopitar in scoring once he Sam Gagner's it and gets 9 points in a game?

And WHY did AA get bumped up? What did he do to earn it over anyone else?

Why not bump Iafallo up to Kopitar's line? He always plays LW. He played with Kopitar before. If Kempe is so great at what he does, then keeping him on Danault's line, where they get more defensive zone draws, would benefit from having the catalyst for defensive zone breakouts, don'tcha think?



Iafallo's better. Lemieux, hilariously, is more disciplined (he just has more PIMs because he actually fights). Grundstrom would have been a big question mark, but he has the benefit of fewer PIMs incurred this entire season than Kempe in the first period.



The entire 1st period was flat soda for both teams. Changes are fine. Promoting the least disciplined forward who has struggled to learn from repeated errors is not.

Again, it worked out for the game. Great. But it's a questionable decision, like pulling the goalie when you have a lead. I'm not complaining about the win. I'm concerned about decision-making and how much responsibility and slack Kempe is getting relative to younger players.

There's a lot other than points in hockey. You see it differently & that's cool.

Todd's actions are easily explainable & make sense if you see it as Kaliyev getting moved down & Kempe being used to patch a hole due to lack of options from having 4 forwards out & 22 on his 1st game back. 19 could have been moved up, but then your heavy lifting line is 22/24/9 instead of 19/24/22. 22/24/9 seems like it would be substantially weaker.

Todd isn't free of criticism, but here there is nothing wrong with his in game adjustments. He saw something wrong with the Kopitar line & made adjustments in game with limited options.

Edit: Part of the issue may be injuries & lack of puck moving D in the D core right now. If the D was better at transitioning the puck there wouldn't be as much emphasis on the forwards' ability to get out of the D-zone. Unfortunately the rookie gets moved when problems arise.

 

[Sol]

I couldn't give two f***s if Kaliyev can't win a board battle if he's scoring goals.

How many Kings can "win" a board battle and actually put the puck in the net?

Who gives a shit? Let his line mates do better at defense and just feed him the puck.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I couldn't give two f***s if Kaliyev can't win a board battle if he's scoring goals.

How many Kings can "win" a board battle and actually put the puck in the net?

Who gives a shit? Let his line mates do better at defense and just feed him the puck.

Yeah one of my major issues with this current thing is the leftover philosophy from the DL regime where everyone has to be a two-way force. I don't want to turn Kaliyev into Dwight King. He's a weapon, deploy him as such. No point in having 12 normal dudes like it's nintendo's ice hockey. It's a real weakness in coaching and management where you can't utilize guys to their strengths, that everyone has to be 'plug and play' and can PK. When you have a guy with a top 1% talent in the world, and you can't figure out what to do with him...especially when you already have immense two-way centers, arguably two of the top 5 in the world, and forechecking wingers...gonna stop there because all my frustrations are coming back out. I understand development, rewarding guys, learning curves, but actively leaving Kaliyev off the PP and putting him on the 4th line when you're behind or in a tie game is just kneecapping yourself.

 

[King'sPawn]

There's a lot other than points in hockey. You see it differently & that's cool.

I pointed to more metrics than points. But good job lying about my stance to try to weaken it. I guess this was the next step after accusing me of hating Kempe and McLellan. Lack of substantive evidence in discussion has been your theme here, though.

 

[Statto]

Going back to the Lemieux play---I love it even more in hindsight. He was looking for a dance partner long before that play and the Devils wouldn't oblige and just kept being chippy little bitches hiding behind refs. I appreciate that he let them know they couldn't get away with that all night.

He's proven so far to have an excellent feel for the temperature of a game and when to turn it on so I liked him going a bit screwloose there. Obviously he cant do that every night or teams will just exploit that, but he's chosen good times and places to make his stand so far, and right after Subban taking a run at the only King he could handle was a good time. That's a lose-the-battle win-the-war move. The emotion in the lineup with him in it is night and day.

Good post. I don’t know about you but Lemieux is so far proving to be the player I hoped he would be whilst having serious doubts about him. I was concerned because at the time of the trade the Rangers didn’t have much grit and moving him therefore seemed odd. It made me question both his game and his off ice persona and on both counts I’m glad my concerns seem misplaced. As you say he seems to have a good feel for when to be an arse and when not to be, which is just invaluable in an agitator.

I completely agree that he’s become a key part of the lineup.

 

[Statto]

Yeah one of my major issues with this current thing is the leftover philosophy from the DL regime where everyone has to be a two-way force. I don't want to turn Kaliyev into Dwight King. He's a weapon, deploy him as such. No point in having 12 normal dudes like it's nintendo's ice hockey. It's a real weakness in coaching and management where you can't utilize guys to their strengths, that everyone has to be 'plug and play' and can PK. When you have a guy with a top 1% talent in the world, and you can't figure out what to do with him...especially when you already have immense two-way centers, arguably two of the top 5 in the world, and forechecking wingers...gonna stop there because all my frustrations are coming back out. I understand development, rewarding guys, learning curves, but actively leaving Kaliyev off the PP and putting him on the 4th line when you're behind or in a tie game is just kneecapping yourself.

I completely agree that we mustn’t knock the magic out of Kaliyev’s game and I do not understand why he’s not always getting pp time. However, getting him to work on his play along the wall at this point makes absolute sense as he’s demonstrating he’s coachable and seems to be learning fast. So when at 5/5 if he’s not able to consistently play in the manner you want him to it’s fine dropping him down the lineup in key situations. If you believe he can end up doing both things, be the offensive force whilst also being strong on the wall in both ends then you have to get him trying to play that way every shift to develop good habits. It’s about playing the long game with his development. I think we all want the same end point, it’s just about how best to get there and whatever way they do it the guy is going to be a bit special.