To be as simplistic as the posts you're responding to--
I'd strongly feel that if we make the playoffs and the only kid that is still on the team doing anything is Kaliyev on the 4th line, it's very likely not "worth it", as it's smoke-and-mirrors success driven by the last career gasps of veterans rather than any evidence that the rebuild is working.
Like sure the auxillary parts are there in mid-20s guys and you could make the case that it'll be good for the growth of Anderson/Bjornfot but the correlation between posters making the above comments and posters that constantly rag on Anderson/Bjornfot is nearly a 100% concentric Venn diagram.
Would it be fun to watch, sure, and there's always the outside chance of doing some damage with legends on the team, but as far as purpose, lol no.
Edit: also, keep in mind there's Brown and AA coming back with Andersson as a scratch too so odds are better they'll run with a forward roster whose youngest player is a 24 YO Lizotte while still pushing Turcotte off PP1 in Ontario so if you don't think playing/development time is a legitimate criticism I don't know what else to tell you.
Of course playing time is an issue. They added Danault and Arvidsson, and kept Lizotte and Athanasiou. Not that AA has played much, but the guys with one way contracts, and a couple hundred games under their belt, they're going to be the ones playing if they're on the roster. And that's with Wagner having been sent down.
I didn't think adding Danault would take time away from everyone but Kopitar, but I also get it. There's a decent amount of youth/inexperience on the roster, and TM is a pretty by the book coach who is trying to win. Give him a vet, he's going to play him.
Hoping TM plays Turcotte more isn't going to happen now. Kopitar and Danault are big money vets, and Lizotte is your average coach's dream. There's no time left to give out. Kopitar clearly won't be playing 17min a night. Maybe the odd game here or there, but it's not going to happen with this coach. Do you complain about it every game, or do you just sort of accept it? Should Kaliyev be with better players? I don't know. The line he's on is succeeding as is, and we're constantly talking about putting players, especially young guys, in positions to succeed. That's happening with Kaliyev, but we don't like that it's happening with Lizotte and Lemeiux. Should he be on PP1? Maybe, but he's 6th on the team in F ice time on the PP for the year. It's not like he's not out there at all.
Of course it would be good for those guys. We were sold a rebuild and still spent time and money on a tanking team. Now the course changes. At this point they may as well have kept Muzzin, Martinez, Toffolli and Carter. Many of us agree on the rebuild but disagree on a lot of other things. Calling people minions of another forum poster as you fondle tmac management and brown is just hilarious.
Did the course change? Did they trade any of the young guys? They stuffed them down further in the lineup and in the AHL, but they have a decent chance to clear some room this summer. Brown, AA, Andersson, Lizotte, Grundstrom, all have contracts that are ending. Let those guys go, and you get some room for young guys.
I dont know why people think if you criticize the team you arent a real fan.
Is that's what's happening? I can't say I've read every word of every post lately, but has anyone actually said that? Jim Fox would say something like that, but it doesn't seem like it's happened with normal people here. But, I could be wrong.
I agree with you - it's too early to put Clarke in the NHL, let alone replacing Doughty on the powerplay next season.
I'm not saying 18-19-20 year-olds have to play top-six minutes automatically. However, I DO think skilled prospects on the NHL roster should at least get ample opportunity in a skilled role. IF they legitimately struggle, then dial back the responsibilities and expectations. If they all flame out, then yes, play the vets more. But you can't say "they're not ready" any more than I can say "they are ready" because the opportunity isn't even there.
What we DO see is a player like Kaliyev, who's a scorer, and who played the top-6 in the AHL, have to adjust to the NHL pace AND play a new type of role and game in a grind line. We watch him play, see he's not lighting the world on fire, and we have to determine whether or not he's ready based on the new role. By the time he's "ready" he'll be well acquainted with playing like a grinder, when the Kings could really use some prospects developing into top-flight forwards.
I am fully understanding and empathetic with the concept of patience. Scouting, watching prospects grow, develop, and the like is a passion of mine (and I probably enjoy it more than the games sometimes). I don't expect the prospect(s) to light the world on fire. But the Kings are in a unique situation with the quality vets they have to both contend for the playoffs and give the prospects more opportunity to grow into their expected roles.
If Kaliyev has goal scoring talent, it's not going to go away. There's also probably a reason he wasn't a top 10 pick. Not that draft position is everything.
If you want skilled prospects to get ample opportunity in a skilled role in the NHL, you can't bring in Danault and Arvidsson, while still having Kopitar, and Iafallo, and Kempe. Of course Brown could be sent home for the rest of the season and nobody would care, obviously nothing close to that will happen, but still, that's one spot. That's not an entire line of 20 year olds, which is what we want to see, because that's interesting. Kaliyev is playing well, he's just playing with the wrong people.
I guess this place became so starved for any kind of above mediocre play that folks would be so willing to accept what they see currently on the ice as something to celebrate. Because scoreboard baby!? Nevermind the over reliance on aging vets. The terrible power play and just as poor penalty kill. The less than impressive goal differential. This current recipe for success has the makings of John Stevens single playoff year as the King's head coach then the team falling off again. Some of us would like more than that going forward.
If the team quits next September, then you'll be right. I guess you just have to wait.
The Kings actually have a huge decision coming up. They have a top 5 statistical goaltender who has won two cups and a Conn Smythe. At the same time, there are several teams with legitimate Cup aspirations who lack a true #1 who is proven in the playoffs. Quick's actual salary this year and next is minimal, and the Kings can retain salary against the Cap which is something few teams can do. Given his experience, level of play, the fact he is signed next year and that his cap hit is not debilitating, he could fetch a #1 pick plus a grade A prospect. But, if you trade him, you basically kiss the playoffs goodbye.
I know this may not be popular, but the smart move is to move him to the Avs or Wild - JQ could be a difference maker for them. That would piss Kopitar and Doughty off, but who cares? This would immediately present opportunities for some of our kids and see what they can do. Quick will not be around when and if the Kings are Cup contenders so why keep him. And, Quick may want another Cup before he retires.
Please stop. A #1 pick and a grade A prospect aren't coming back for a 36 year old goalie.
And if the Kings stay in the race, and as of this second they're not that far behind Wpg, Ana, or Edm, for the last couple spots, they're not going to get rid of one of the reasons why they're in the race. No matter how smart of a move it might be, and it would be the smart move, they're not going to do that. Very few teams would, if any, if they were in a similar situation. It's just not a realistic idea. It wouldn't just piss off Kopitar and Doughty, you'd be pissing off the whole team if you gave up on the season after they've all worked so hard to be in a position to make the playoffs.
In terms of player management, and people skills and all that, and what a general manager is supposed to cultivate, do you want to make the whole roster upset? Do you want the whole roster to question whether or not you have their backs? If the Kings are out of it, by all means, explore any possible Quick trade, even if it's for a 5th rd pick. If they're legitimately in the mix 50/60 games into the season though?
I have an issue with people blaming Blake for Johnson, Emerson, O’Donnell, Murray etc as him bringing in his friends.
Weren’t all these guys put into their positions by Lombardi? Like I get Blake didn’t fire them and start clean but it’s not like he gave them all their positions.
DL brought in a friend, colleague, and literal Canadian farm boy to save his ass back in the day, so all this nepotism stuff is because people don't like Blake and Robitaille. In their professional positions. If a competent person practices nepotism,
and they end up winning, it's then one of the greatest moves in franchise history. He also brought Hextall with him, who he worked with in Philly, and Hextall made his name and will forever be remembered as a Flyers player, which is where he also got his first management job. But, that's the good nepotism, because they won. And when you win, there are no problems or issues with anything, because you won.
Last night is a really good illustration of this whole issue, actually.
Home game vs. a team in a similar spot in the standings so you can control the matchups, and your 'kid line' is showing well--surely this is the perfect situation to even out the ice time, right? Nope, Kopitar near 10 minutes, Turcotte 2.5.
Fine, maybe the 2nd period will be better, since we blew open a 3-1, 4-1 lead. Surely this is the perfect time to give guys a shot, right? Nope, Kopitar at 18 minutes, Turcotte less than 5.
Well, the started coming back in the third period, so should we let the fresh legs gallop and keep up the ID? Nah, we need the vets to lock it down.
There is never a good time to 'work on things' re: development in the NHL. Like you said, if they have to learn and you're not going to let them learn on the job because you're insistent on rolling it like a playoff team rather than even a partial learning environment, put em back in the A. But give him PP1 time FFS.
And without some of the injuries, some of these guys would be in the AHL.
You have to specifically open spots up for young guys, not have them try to beat out vets that were brought it to be top 6 guys. If you want Hunter and Moreau to be replaced by King and Nolan, then you have to bring in Hunter and Moreau, not Danault and Arvidsson. That's a GM problem. On the other hand, Brown is a coach problem. He sucks, but the coach is blind to veterans, so he'll keep playing, and the only C that can possibly drag Brown around is Kopitar, so he gets to play top minutes. If Brown is re-signed, and even Blake isn't that stupid, Robitaille can't be either, that would then switch from a coach problem to a GM problem.
