Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster discussion part IV Playoffs? I Danault

[Schrute farms]

I disagree that the new NHL is about being soft, go back and look at the cup winners over the past half decade and you will find plenty of grit/toughness. The bolts realized that they needed a bit more grit after getting swept by the BJ's and went out to grab guys like Goodrow, Coleman and Maroon. Their star players are also not shy about being tough. Hedman, Kucherov, Sergachev will all throw some shots back. The Blues were most definitely a tough, gritty team and were coached by Berube. The Caps iced Tom Wilson on the top line and Ovechkin loves to throw hits. The Penguins maybe are a half way decent example, but Malkin is pretty crazy and the Penguins had 2 of the best players in the league.

Comparatively softness. Look at the league as a whole right now. Compare that to 2010 vs. 2000 vs. 1990 vs. 1980 vs. 1970. Now tell me things haven't changed in the NHL -- by a LOT.

There's also a big difference in the old school toughness/size/fight versus simply having grit/toughness in todays game. Goons are gone. But having guys who give a crap and don't put up with sh!t is what we need. It helps when your team is winning though. Winning gives you something extra to fight for on the ice. It's a mentality. This team does not have it. The leaders (DD, AK) don't have that in them per se. But future guys (Turk, Thomas, Byfield, etc.) -- hopefully they will bring that.

Dean didn't have that either for ultimately what lead to the 2012-2014 teams except for maybe Greene and Brown. He brought those guys in -- Richards, Penner, Mitchell, Stoll, JW, etc.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Blake Coleman had three consecutive seasons of 20+ goals, and he's 5'11, played on a productive line with Yanni Gourde and Barclay Goodrow, and he plays bigger than his size. I think his production and total package that he brings is what earned him $5.9M per year from Calgary. He was also a third round pick who was a late bloomer at 26-27.

Colorado added grit in Nazem Kadri, and their biggest presence on the blueline was Ryan Graves, and we saw how much those two helped in the playoffs. Foligno is another player who had no impact whatsoever on a Leafs team that traded away Kadri because of the foolish and ill-timed penalties (and suspensions) he would take in the playoffs.

The Kings added Brendan Lemieux for a small price and the results were mixed. He didn't look very engaged most nights. They had MacDermid in the lineup most nights and did he really do anything to intimidate opponents? Didn't seem so to me.

Finding talented players with sandpaper isn't easy and they aren't always available. I think that's why you see the Isles hanging onto guys like Clutterbuck and Martin well past their prime.

Also, observe the teams that led the league in hits last season. On top you have Montreal, who are generally considered to be a soft team by the masses. Adding a guy like Josh Anderson certainly helped them, but losing Danault is going to leave a big hole in their lineup (in addition to Weber). And who is right behind Montreal? Why the Ottawa Senators. And in 5th place in overall hits were the Edmonton Oilers.

What's peculiar is how teams perceived to be tough, like Vegas and Calgary, were ranked 20th and 22nd respectively in the hitting department. Tampa Bay ranked 9th overall, and they just lost their top three hitters to free agency. Their fourth highest hitter was some guy the Kings traded to them in 2017...

 

[BringTheReign]

If we're talking about players who can contribute and bring toughness like Coleman or Goodrow, what about Andrew Copp in Winnipeg?

He's 27 and it looks like the Jets might be a in cap crunch. On one hand, I think you ideally develop your own Copp types rather than having to sign them later in their careers for more money (a la Hyman, Goodrow, or Coleman). However, he's a big body who can play up and the down the lineup while contributing.

 

[crassbonanza]

Comparatively softness. Look at the league as a whole right now. Compare that to 2010 vs. 2000 vs. 1990 vs. 1980 vs. 1970. Now tell me things haven't changed in the NHL -- by a LOT.

There's also a big difference in the old school toughness/size/fight versus simply having grit/toughness in todays game. Goons are gone. But having guys who give a crap and don't put up with sh!t is what we need. It helps when your team is winning though. Winning gives you something extra to fight for on the ice. It's a mentality. This team does not have it. The leaders (DD, AK) don't have that in them per se. But future guys (Turk, Thomas, Byfield, etc.) -- hopefully they will bring that.

Dean didn't have that either for ultimately what lead to the 2012-2014 teams except for maybe Greene and Brown. He brought those guys in -- Richards, Penner, Mitchell, Stoll, JW, etc.

Definitely agree that the league is significantly softer than past decades, but toughness is still a prized commodity and is very expensive to acquire if they possess any sort of talent. The importance in the playoffs shouldn't be ignored, just look at last years Habs/Leafs series where the Habs just bullied Toronto. By game 7 that Leafs team looked broken.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

I wish I saw more Coyotes fans wearing ironic Datsyuk and Pronger jerseys, can you start this please?

I'll raise them with my Iginla, Lecavalier and Kovalchuk Kings jerseys.

 

[crassbonanza]

Also, observe the teams that led the league in hits last season. On top you have Montreal, who are generally considered to be a soft team by the masses. Adding a guy like Josh Anderson certainly helped them, but losing Danault is going to leave a big hole in their lineup (in addition to Weber). And who is right behind Montreal? Why the Ottawa Senators. And in 5th place in overall hits were the Edmonton Oilers.

What's peculiar is how teams perceived to be tough, like Vegas and Calgary, were ranked 20th and 22nd respectively in the hitting department. Tampa Bay ranked 9th overall, and they just lost their top three hitters to free agency. Their fourth highest hitter was some guy the Kings traded to them in 2017...

Hits are an odd stat because they are so heavily swayed by the in house stats guy, what is perceived as a hit can fluctuate wildly. Also, there is a bit of home ice bias typically in that teams tend to have more hits at home rather than on the road. Kind of similar to giveaways/takeaways.

As for the teams you listed, do people really think the Habs are soft? Gallagher, Anderson, Weber seem to eb the very definition of toughness/grit.

Ottawa is building a team specifically geared towards being hard to play against, seemingly surrounding Brady with players that compliment his game so I am not surprised to see them up there.

 

[regulate]

If we're talking about players who can contribute and bring toughness like Coleman or Goodrow, what about Andrew Copp in Winnipeg?

He's 27 and it looks like the Jets might be a in cap crunch. On one hand, I think you ideally develop your own Copp types rather than having to sign them later in their careers for more money (a la Hyman, Goodrow, or Coleman). However, he's a big body who can play up and the down the lineup while contributing.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Hits are an odd stat because they are so heavily swayed by the in house stats guy, what is perceived as a hit can fluctuate wildly. Also, there is a bit of home ice bias typically in that teams tend to have more hits at home rather than on the road. Kind of similar to giveaways/takeaways.

As for the teams you listed, do people really think the Habs are soft? Gallagher, Anderson, Weber seem to eb the very definition of toughness/grit.

Ottawa is building a team specifically geared towards being hard to play against, seemingly surrounding Brady with players that compliment his game so I am not surprised to see them up there.

There certainly is a lot of bias with how hits are tracked and recorded by in-house stats guys. I just found it interesting how teams with a reputation of being physical like the Golden Knights and Blues were further below the ranks in the overall hits category.

Outside of the names you mentioned, Montreal is generally perceived as a team of smurfs, and it was fun to see how they handled the Leafs, Jets, and Golden Knights.

I'm more inclined to believe that what is more important is the "buy-in" attitude to show intensity and pushback against opponents. Age has caught up to the vets: the Dustin Brown we got in the 2012 playoffs who was bulldozing opponents, and even the Doughty of the past who threw some massive hipchecks and backed up his trash talking are no longer present. Well, I guess Doughty at times can be, like when he faces off against Matthew Tkachuk...

Trying to acquire the next Coleman or Clutterbuck is going to be a challenge, but the trade for Brendan Lemieux is a sign to me that they're trying to find that type of player. Even Lias Andersson has a bit of that attitude in him. We just have to see them bring it on a more consistent basis.



Trying to think of what players are actually useful and can provide a physical presence, a guy like Jordan Greenway is someone I'd target if he ever became available.

 

[BringTheReign]

Outside of the names you mentioned, Montreal is generally perceived as a team of smurfs, and it was fun to see how they handled the Leafs, Jets, and Golden Knights.

Even Lias Andersson has a bit of that attitude in him. We just have to see them bring it on a more consistent basis.

Excellent point on Lias Andersson. If he's a 30-40 point guy who brings that type of physicality and fire to our lineup, that trade is a huge win.

MTL's forwards were perceived as small, but they did add Josh Anderson and their top 4 defense core last season was huge (Weber, Chiarot, Petry, and Edmundson).

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Hits are such a ridiculously subjective stat that it's mostly useless. Often times I look at a teams hit stat after a period or a game and wonder what the hell the person who was counting those hits was actually watching

 

[YP44]

Blake Coleman had three consecutive seasons of 20+ goals, and he's 5'11, played on a productive line with Yanni Gourde and Barclay Goodrow, and he plays bigger than his size. I think his production and total package that he brings is what earned him $5.9M per year from Calgary. He was also a third round pick who was a late bloomer at 26-27.

Colorado added grit in Nazem Kadri, and their biggest presence on the blueline was Ryan Graves, and we saw how much those two helped in the playoffs. Foligno is another player who had no impact whatsoever on a Leafs team that traded away Kadri because of the foolish and ill-timed penalties (and suspensions) he would take in the playoffs.

The Kings added Brendan Lemieux for a small price and the results were mixed. He didn't look very engaged most nights. They had MacDermid in the lineup most nights and did he really do anything to intimidate opponents? Didn't seem so to me.

Finding talented players with sandpaper isn't easy and they aren't always available. I think that's why you see the Isles hanging onto guys like Clutterbuck and Martin well past their prime.

Also, observe the teams that led the league in hits last season. On top you have Montreal, who are generally considered to be a soft team by the masses. Adding a guy like Josh Anderson certainly helped them, but losing Danault is going to leave a big hole in their lineup (in addition to Weber). And who is right behind Montreal? Why the Ottawa Senators. And in 5th place in overall hits were the Edmonton Oilers.

What's peculiar is how teams perceived to be tough, like Vegas and Calgary, were ranked 20th and 22nd respectively in the hitting department. Tampa Bay ranked 9th overall, and they just lost their top three hitters to free agency. Their fourth highest hitter was some guy the Kings traded to them in 2017...

$4.9M for Coleman

Alot of elite teams build their team into a contender and then add the toughness. Worrying about the kings toughness at this point in their rebuild is too premature.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

$4.9M for Coleman

Alot of elite teams build their team into a contender and then add the toughness. Worrying about the kings toughness at this point in their rebuild is too premature.

That’s the thing. We’re talking about teams who are in the upper echelon offensively and defensively who were able to successfully add (at least in Tampa Bay’s case) missing elements, whereas the Kings are lacking in so many areas and still have ways to go from being a team that just needs to add one more ingredient to the mix.

 

[KINGS17]

I wish I saw more Coyotes fans wearing ironic Datsyuk and Pronger jerseys, can you start this please?

Oh wait, I thought I read this as iconic.

 

[Token]

That puts the Kings at 49 contracts on the books with Moverare the remaining unsigned RFA.

Interesting move. Suggests they may want to bring Sam over this fall.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That puts the Kings at 49 contracts on the books with Moverare the remaining unsigned RFA.

Interesting move. Suggests they may want to bring Sam over this fall.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

lol at even the passing thought that Kucherov is tough, this is a guy who tried to hide on the bench a whole game because Regehr tunneled him

however, Kucherov PLAYS with his stick like he needs a wheelbarrow for his nutsack because his teammates have his back. THAT is the kind of toughness this team needs. He knows he can get away with murder because he won't have to answer any bell anywhere with his team behind him. Not saying we want that kind of pussery, but it's a possibility because TBL added what was needed.

 

[Token]

Thank you! I did not know that.

Makes sense that a contract slide would go towards the future season count.

 

[BigKing]

$4.9M for Coleman

Alot of elite teams build their team into a contender and then add the toughness. Worrying about the kings toughness at this point in their rebuild is too premature.

But worrying that you don't see the right kind of attitude from the young players is not premature. The future of this franchise breaking in to a neutered team full of clock-punching check collectors is worrisome as they develop poor habits.

This is why I like the additions to the team this offseason. It wasn't an infusion of "toughness" but rather an infusion of "try".

 

[PumperNichol]

I mean, Grans was on the 1PP in the SHL at 17. He's impressing someone. I guess we can officially call this guy the slept on prospect.

I guess you didn't notice..no one here is questioning his offense. Saying he played 1PP is great but I'll be more impressed if he ever plays 1PK because that's his weakness.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Thank you! I did not know that.

Makes sense that a contract slide would go towards the future season count.

Let's also not forget about the potential of the team making trades in the near future since they have TOO MANY GUYS.

 

[Jason Squirties]

lol at even the passing thought that Kucherov is tough, this is a guy who tried to hide on the bench a whole game because Regehr tunneled him

however, Kucherov PLAYS with his stick like he needs a wheelbarrow for his nutsack because his teammates have his back. THAT is the kind of toughness this team needs. He knows he can get away with murder because he won't have to answer any bell anywhere with his team behind him. Not saying we want that kind of pussery, but it's a possibility because TBL added what was needed.

Additionally, I got so much of a good chuckle out of Kadri supposedly providing "grit" that I had to look up the definition to make sure I wasn't imagining things.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Additionally, I got so much of a good chuckle out of Kadri supposedly providing "grit" that I had to look up the definition to make sure I wasn't imagining things.

Are you completely unaware of the type of player Kadri is, Mr. Squirtles?

I can help with that if you’re unaware of any hockey players who don’t don a Kings uniform.
Nazem Kadri provides the gritty offense Colorado needs to slay Arizona | The Hockey News on Sports Illustrated

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I guess you didn't notice..no one here is questioning his offense. Saying he played 1PP is great but I'll be more impressed if he ever plays 1PK because that's his weakness.

"Grans doesn't do anything that makes me say wow" is about his PK ability?

I'm well aware of his defensive concerns, my issue was that people were suddenly downplaying his other abilities as well.

 

[redcard]

Let's also not forget about the potential of the team making trades in the near future since they have TOO MANY GUYS.

 

[Jason Squirties]

Are you completely unaware of the type of player Kadri is, Mr. Squirtles?

I can help with that if you’re unaware of any hockey players who don’t don a Kings uniform.
Nazem Kadri provides the gritty offense Colorado needs to slay Arizona | The Hockey News on Sports Illustrated

Pretty much any player that isn't in a kings uniform could be considered gritty by that definition. He's a coward that's chippy and plays with a cowardice edge. If you want that to fit in your gritty definition, by all means, go ahead. I'll just sit here and have a chuckle.