Prospect Info: 2021-2022 Prospect Info

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Just under prediction, 9th.

Wheeler grades higher on potential so guys like Bokk, Gunler, and Nybeck are higher than Nishikin, Seeley, and Ponomaryov.

He has 20 prospects listed and could have gone to 25 easy.

Top 5
Morrow, Suzuki, Koivunen, Gunler, and Drury in that order.

Makiniemi not listed even in the honorable mentions. Kochetkov 11th.

He said Jackson Blake could be a big mover if does well at North Dakota

I’m rooting for Jackie Blake.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

His ranking is a bit different than I think the Canes fan consensus would have you believe, as Gocanes mentioned, due to his preference for potential over safety. Having Gunler over Drury is probably the biggest bizarre example of that. He's also got Honka over Keane, Fensore over Nikishin, and Hreschuk over Seeley.

He did start his preamble by saying "there's a clear top 9 in this list", so it seems there's some space between us at #9 and Dallas at #10.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

His ranking is a bit different than I think the Canes fan consensus would have you believe, as Gocanes mentioned, due to his preference for potential over safety. Having Gunler over Drury is probably the biggest bizarre example of that. He's also got Honka over Keane, Fensore over Nikishin, and Hreschuk over Seeley.

He did start his preamble by saying "there's a clear top 9 in this list", so it seems there's some space between us at #9 and Dallas at #10.


View attachment 504337
View attachment 504339
View attachment 504340

Even crazier he said he wrestled with each one of the top 4 as being rated the top prospect.

either way having the longest list of all the other pools is pretty good. Increase those chances of getting a top 6 player.

The more that comes out, the more Koivunen sounds like Aho lite.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

either way having the longest list of all the other pools is pretty good. Increase those chances of getting a top 6 player.

The more that comes out, the more Koivunen sounds like Aho lite.

Your first point is the front office's MO, I believe. I've been a big proponent of the "as many darts as possible" approach and if even one of those defensemen turns into a top 4 defenseman and one of those forwards becomes a top 6 forward, that's pretty exceptional for a team at the top of the standings.

Your second point is something I've been afraid to say out loud or type out, but it does kinda have that feeling doesn't it?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Your first point is the front office's MO, I believe. I've been a big proponent of the "as many darts as possible" approach and if even one of those defensemen turns into a top 4 defenseman and one of those forwards becomes a top 6 forward, that's pretty exceptional for a team at the top of the standings.

Your second point is something I've been afraid to say out loud or type out, but it does kinda have that feeling doesn't it?

Koivunen really does. The only separation I am seeing in initial scouting reports is skating. Koivunen is at an average skating rating. Aho was an above average skater at the draft. Size his only detractor. Thank you to all the size obsessed GMs in 2015! Not that Francis isn’t/ wasnt one of them.

Organization needs to hire a really good Finnish skating coach and lock Koivunen and Kotkaniemi in his/her gym/rink all summer. Then profit.

 

[spockBokk]

I wonder how many of these guys are with new orgs in the next few weeks:

In my views, tiers:

-Unlikely to very unlikely traded - Morrow, Suzuki, Koivunen, Drury, Nikishin, Kochetkov

-Maybe - Rees, Ponomarev, Heimosalmi, Gunler, Puistola, Honka, Fensore, Pashin,etc (would rather them not trade Gunler, Rees or Heimosalmi but could see it)

-See ya - Keane, Bokk, Cotton

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Anyone know the contract status of Gunler, Honka, Puistola, etc?

We have the chance to bring over quite a few players this April when the Euro leagues end. With the depth of Chicago we won’t need to unless their deals are up. Don’t want to spend money on transfers.

Gunler, Puistola, Honka, and Kochetkov seem fairly definite to me. Tieksola and Nybeck seem leas likely.

Seeley will get a PTO too.

2 forwards, 2 defenders, and a goalie to add to the Wolves the for playoffs.

 

[MinJaBen]

The more that comes out, the more Koivunen sounds like Aho lite.

Your second point is something I've been afraid to say out loud or type out, but it does kinda have that feeling doesn't it?

Koivunen really does. The only separation I am seeing in initial scouting reports is skating. Koivunen is at an average skating rating. Aho was an above average skater at the draft. Size his only detractor. Thank you to all the size obsessed GMs in 2015! Not that Francis isn’t/ wasnt one of them.

Organization needs to hire a really good Finnish skating coach and lock Koivunen and Kotkaniemi in his/her gym/rink all summer. Then profit.

I think people really need to pump the brakes on Koivunen. Aho's two primary attributes that make him a star are his ability to think the game, and the wheels necessary to get where he decides he needs to be. You take the skating away, he becomes a small KK. If Koivunen has skating issues, he may never amount to anything in the NHL. If he even gets there.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I think people really need to pump the brakes on Koivunen. Aho's two primary attributes that make him a star are his ability to think the game, and the wheels necessary to get where he decides he needs to be. You take the skating away, he becomes a small KK. If Koivunen has skating issues, he may never amount to anything in the NHL. If he even gets there.

His skating has to go down to be a “small Kotkaniemi.” No one is claiming he’ll be Aho. His write ups read like Aho’s, which they do. Any issue in saying that?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I think people really need to pump the brakes on Koivunen. Aho's two primary attributes that make him a star are his ability to think the game, and the wheels necessary to get where he decides he needs to be. You take the skating away, he becomes a small KK. If Koivunen has skating issues, he may never amount to anything in the NHL. If he even gets there.

Agreed - I should clarify that I'm not expecting a 90-point top line NHLer (if I was, I would have an issue with him at #3 in the list). He does seem to be tracking in a similar way to Aho in that first year, when we went from "never heard of this Finnish kid, really, we passed on those guys to get this kid?" to him starting to make a name for himself in his own league as well as in the World Juniors (Koivunen's was cut-off but he was tracking towards a pretty impressive performance).

He's tracking to Aho's first big leap in potential, is that fair to say? What Aho has done to continue to break the mold since then is awesome. But I think about this time during Aho's progression we were starting to think "hey, we might have an impactful top 9 player in this kid!"

(It's admittedly a lazy comparison - 2nd round Finn does good in his own league and in WJC. But if we are going to keep asking Joni Pitkanen and Aho's dad who to draft, the comparison is going to keep coming up.)

 

[MinJaBen]

Agreed - I should clarify that I'm not expecting a 90-point top line NHLer (if I was, I would have an issue with him at #3 in the list). He does seem to be tracking in a similar way to Aho in that first year, when we went from "never heard of this Finnish kid, really, we passed on those guys to get this kid?" to him starting to make a name for himself in his own league as well as in the World Juniors (Koivunen's was cut-off but he was tracking towards a pretty impressive performance).

I get all of that. I hear the rhyme of history here, as well. But skating is sooooo important in this day's NHL that I think to gloss over his deficiencies here is a big dose of wishful thinking.

 

[emptyNedder]

I think people really need to pump the brakes on Koivunen. Aho's two primary attributes that make him a star are his ability to think the game, and the wheels necessary to get where he decides he needs to be. You take the skating away, he becomes a small KK. If Koivunen has skating issues, he may never amount to anything in the NHL. If he even gets there.

Agree that the comparisons to Aho are over-the-top. And I am a Koivunen fan. I have always seen him as a Teravinen-lite, or a Josh Bailey type who succeeds with hockey IQ and positioning.

 

[bleedgreen]

Comparing Koivanen to Aho will likely be as accurate as it was when people compared Kooks and Luostarinen to Aho early on.

They’re Finnish and they’re pretty good at 19. Other than that there’s nothing to it. I’ve watched a little bit of Koivanen and I like him but he’s just not the same kind of player. He hustles and he has skill, makes a lot of heads up plays but let’s just start with the hope he’s a third line guy because that’s what he looks like for now. Saying he sounds like Aho aside from the skating is like saying Aho is like Barkov aside from the size. It means they’re nothing alike. Everything starts with Aho’s skating, it’s the basis of his game.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Can someone explain to me why anyone is high on Suzuki and Bokk at this point? I've more or less written them both off and see no way either ever contributes for us. Maybe I'm just stupid but I can't see it with them. They both seem destined to go to a shitty team where they can get top 6-9 playing time and even then I'm not sure they'd carve out a role.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Can someone explain to me why anyone is high on Suzuki and Bokk at this point? I've more or less written them both off and see no way either ever contributes for us. Maybe I'm just stupid but I can't see it with them. They both seem destined to go to a shitty team where they can get top 6-9 playing time and even then I'm not sure they'd carve out a role.

I'll defend Suzuki and just say injuries (and weird ones at that) have been a significant part of his story and he's 20 years old. He held his own in the AHL last year as a 19-year-old while competing for ice time with an entire other organizations prospects. You haven't heard about him this year because he's played 6 games. Still plenty of time for him to make a mark. We have done well as an organization to build to the point where we can afford to miss on a 1st round pick, though.

Bokk... I'm starting to get to the point you're at. Turns 22 tomorrow, has 10 points in 30 AHL games this year, and as a one-dimensional guy that you count on for scoring, that's bad. This is starting to feel like Saarela to me. You've already got one org that decided to move on from him.

 

[emptyNedder]

Can someone explain to me why anyone is high on Suzuki and Bokk at this point?

Wonder if Rees is also falling. He turns 21 this month and his second AHL season (admittedly only from a points perspective) hasn't shown improvement. Still think he has bottom 6 potential, but a top-half of the second round pick hopefully shows more.

Of course, the big caveat is that Chicago doesn't seem like an AHL team where development is the top priority.

 

[spockBokk]

Interesting, does this affect Nikishin (after the Olympics) or Kochetkov?

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I'll defend Suzuki and just say injuries (and weird ones at that) have been a significant part of his story and he's 20 years old. He held his own in the AHL last year as a 19-year-old while competing for ice time with an entire other organizations prospects. You haven't heard about him this year because he's played 6 games. Still plenty of time for him to make a mark. We have done well as an organization to build to the point where we can afford to miss on a 1st round pick, though.

Bokk... I'm starting to get to the point you're at. Turns 22 tomorrow, has 10 points in 30 AHL games this year, and as a one-dimensional guy that you count on for scoring, that's bad. This is starting to feel like Saarela to me. You've already got one org that decided to move on from him.

I think his eye injury factors into my writing him off. I would love it if he overcame that but that will definitely have an impact on his speed processing the game and his ability to play as a skilled top 6 player. And I don't think his skillset really fits in a bottom 6 role. I just don't see where he can slot into our lineup in the next several years. Agree that missing on a late 1st round pick is not a big deal. And when I say I'm writing these guys off I mean more as contributing directly for us. Can easily see us getting assets in trades including either of them and could also see them going to a team devoid of talent and getting a shot in the top 6 and maybe taking advantage of it. Just can't see it here any time soon though.

Wonder if Rees is also falling. He turns 21 this month and his second AHL season (admittedly only from a points perspective) hasn't shown improvement. Still think he has bottom 6 potential, but a top-half of the second round pick hopefully shows more.

Of course, the big caveat is that Chicago doesn't seem like an AHL team where development is the top priority.

Fair to consider this as well. I think Rees has a better chance and am not writing him off yet mainly because his skillset does suit a bottom 6 game more than Suzuki or Bokk. Rees could contribute significantly in the physical/pest aspects of the game even if he's not putting up points. Plus as mentioned he's been dealing with injury too. I do think his stock has been falling the last year or so though.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I feel like some of those guys at least looked good in preseason games this year and/or held their own in the admittedly watered down AHL last year.

As for Koivunen, I think some of you are taking the comparison too literally as far as Aho lite. He's going to be a different type of player, but he seems like he could fall in between Kuokkanen/Luostarinen and Aho. Obviously a wide range of outcomes between there, but I'm quite high on him in particular.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Interesting, does this affect Nikishin (after the Olympics) or Kochetkov?

Torpedo wouldn't be in the playoffs so I could see Kochetkov considering coming over but I kinda doubt he would as there isn't really a spot for him right now. Plus with him on loan anyways if we wanted to recall him here to the Canes roster we could do so at any time so I don't think this impacts his situation.

Spartak would be in the playoffs and Nikishin's under contract for a while and is a core piece for them so I can't see that affecting him at all.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Torpedo wouldn't be in the playoffs so I could see Kochetkov considering coming over but I kinda doubt he would as there isn't really a spot for him right now. Plus with him on loan anyways if we wanted to recall him here to the Canes roster we could do so at any time so I don't think this impacts his situation.

Spartak would be in the playoffs and Nikishin's under contract for a while and is a core piece for them so I can't see that affecting him at all.

I don’t know all the ends and outs but according to a Rangers writer, once you loan a player to the KHL they are loaned for the whole season. No take backsies. It was interesting subplot to Kravtsov saga. He was loaned to the KHL basically killing his likelihood of being traded during the season because a loan carried until the season is over. The writer could be mistaken but there aren’t clear rules anywhere else I have seen.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I don’t know all the ends and outs but according to a Rangers writer, once you loan a player to the KHL they are loaned for the whole season. No take backsies. It was interesting subplot to Kravtsov saga. He was loaned to the KHL basically killing his likelihood of being traded during the season because a loan carried until the season is over. The writer could be mistaken but there aren’t clear rules anywhere else I have seen.

I'm not 100% sure but I think it's very specific to the loan/KHL contract and whether it has an out clause or not. I can see why Kravtsov wouldn't want one... If there is no out clause then yes this could allow us to try to bring Koch out here but either way I just can't see why he would want to. Chicago isn't an ideal situation for him and he's likely not beating out Raanta. 1 more year in the KHL makes sense for Pyotr, after that we can slot him in as the #2 or 1b ideally keeping Freddie or signing/trading for another proven starter to slot ahead of him at least for a year or two.


Edit: on 2nd thought maybe he would be open to coming over and sitting on the taxi squad/getting some starts as the #3 if Torpedo's season is over. I guess then he's not playing anyways and he can still be loaned back there for next year. But based on interviews he's given in the past I think he prefers to stay in Russia right now. We'll see, should be interesting.

 

[bleedgreen]

Wonder if Rees is also falling. He turns 21 this month and his second AHL season (admittedly only from a points perspective) hasn't shown improvement. Still think he has bottom 6 potential, but a top-half of the second round pick hopefully shows more.

Of course, the big caveat is that Chicago doesn't seem like an AHL team where development is the top priority.

That last sentence has been a concern for me. Charlotte wasn’t working business wise but it was our team for our prospects development. Chicago has never felt that way and I can’t help but wonder if it’s affecting some of the development. We can draft 20 guys a year but if we don’t have a high end development situation immediately below the Canes it’s not going to matter much. We went through this before.

 

[A Star is Burns]

That's probably why we don't mind mining locations where prospects will develop outside of our system for a while. Time will tell how that all works out.

 

[tarheelhockey]

That last sentence has been a concern for me. Charlotte wasn’t working business wise but it was our team for our prospects development. Chicago has never felt that way and I can’t help but wonder if it’s affecting some of the development. We can draft 20 guys a year but if we don’t have a high end development situation immediately below the Canes it’s not going to matter much. We went through this before.

It's really going to piss me off if we end up losing a generation of prospect development because the Canes and Checkers couldn't do business together.