Speculation: 2021-2022 Coyotes Roster Discussion

[Jakey53]

I don't know how anyone honestly expects BA to make moves to improve the 21-22 Coyotes. Any moves will be for the 22-23 team. This is a tank. Getting Patches, or White, would improve the current team at the expense of draft position. Not happening.

Well, that depends. If we select 1OA, I would expect that player and Guenther be on opening night roster next year. Also, I expect more Tucson players on the team, and hopefully taking bigger roles. Capo has been the forgotten man, and many on this board were willing to trade him for spare parts. To the the surprise of most, he has been very steady, and he might be a player we rely on next year. Shuffling players from Tucson this year are all moves to help the team next year. But, if you are talking trades, I don't see us wanting Patches or White.

 

[Heldig]

So, interesting coincidences in the making...

40 years ago the Habs drafted 1st overall. The pre Coyotes (Jets 1.0) 2nd. Chicago 3rd.

The Habs hosted the draft.

Habs drafted Wickenheiser the “can’t miss” future superstar and the top prospect in the 1980 draft. Easy to make the comparison to Shane Wright.

The Jets selected Dave Babych. Nemec could be a decent comparable.

Then the Hawks selected Denis Savard ie Matt Savoie the uber talented, darting offensive French Canadian whizz.

Crazy, right?

Even more interesting, the Jets finished dead last the next season and drafted the best player in franchise history, Dale Hawerchuk (Conor Bedard?).

 

[hbk]

So, interesting coincidences in the making...

40 years ago the Habs drafted 1st overall. The pre Coyotes (Jets 1.0) 2nd. Chicago 3rd.

The Habs hosted the draft.

Habs drafted Wickenheiser the “can’t miss” future superstar and the top prospect in the 1980 draft. Easy to make the comparison to Shane Wright.

The Jets selected Dave Babych. Nemec could be a decent comparable.

Then the Hawks selected Denis Savard ie Matt Savoie the uber talented, darting offensive French Canadian whizz.

Crazy, right?

Even more interesting, the Jets finished dead last the next season and drafted the best player in franchise history, Dale Hawerchuk (Conor Bedard?).

Babych was perhaps the harriest man alive. Part Sasquatch.

 

[Mangosteen]

Penguins 2x actually - absolutely tanked to draft Lemiuex, kinda sucked for a few seasons during which they drafted Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, Staal and Letang. Only other comparable are the current Oilers (whose 4 1st overall picks in 6 seasons is just ridiculous - plus they drafted Draisatl 3rd and Nurse 7th in that same span).

Oilers have not done anything with all those picks. Maybe this year.. maybe next

 

[lanky]

Capo has been the forgotten man, and many on this board were willing to trade him for spare parts.

To be fair to those posters - Capo went unclaimed on waivers last season and this season. He was offered away for free and every GM said no thanks.

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

Well, that depends. If we select 1OA, I would expect that player and Guenther be on opening night roster next year. Also, I expect more Tucson players on the team, and hopefully taking bigger roles. Capo has been the forgotten man, and many on this board were willing to trade him for spare parts. To the the surprise of most, he has been very steady, and he might be a player we rely on next year. Shuffling players from Tucson this year are all moves to help the team next year. But, if you are talking trades, I don't see us wanting Patches or White.

I brought them up. Neither a White, nor Patches deal would be plausible until next offseason. White could work during the season if we have a taker for Schmaltz lined up I'd suppose, but Vegas wont be until the summer unless Eichel is ready before the TDL.

Vegas will be going into next season with 10 signed players and only $2m in cap space, that's not even enough to fill out 10 league minimum spots. We, on the other hand, have 4 players and need $52m to reach the cap floor (9 expiring contracts are RFA, Crouse and Hayton are likely the only ones with a raise of any significance). Patches makes the most sense as a player to move out due to age and only 1 year left on his deal. We could benefit from adding him for a single season to help mentor guys and keep us competitive. I'd give a 2nd and a mid tier prospect for him.

Patches - Wright - Guenther
Crouse - Hayton - Keller
McCartney - Jenik - Pavelski
Ladd - White - Fisher
O'Brian

Chychrun - Soderstrom
Gostisbehere - Bush
Capobianco - Timmins
Dineen, Mayo

Vejmelka
Wedgewood

We're still shit with that roster but we're probably like, 9th overall draft pick bad instead of, "oh look the Roadrunners made it to the NHL" bad. That improvement and quality of leadership will help propel the young guys forward. I don't even know if that roster makes the cap floor. We may still need another $7-10m to get there. Maybe Tampa wants to make some space and does McDonagh for Capobianco. That's $6m, still need another $1-4m. Varlamov could probably be had for pennies on the dollar to get us above the floor with some room to work with.

Chychrun - Soderstrom
Gostisbehere - Bush
McDonagh - Timmins
Dineen, Mayo

Vejmelka
Varlamov

 

[lanky]

I'd give a 2nd and a mid tier prospect for him.

If we're going to help Vegas, they're going to pay us.

 

[moosemeister]

If we're going to help Vegas, they're going to pay us.

Yup. Vegas can go f*** itself. If they need cap help, pay up.

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

Yup. Vegas can go f*** itself. If they need cap help, pay up.

If we're going to help Vegas, they're going to pay us.

If we expect them to pay us for a still very useful and not overpaid Patches, he'll end up somewhere else. We need to make the cap floor, why not do it with not crap players?

 

[MIGs Dog]

Rumor mill:

"Kessel is the only right winger who fits the Rangers’ needs currently playing for a team that is not going to make the playoffs."

Is Phil Kessel a Rangers trade target?

 

[Mosby]

NYR have two 2nd round picks. Either works for Kessel. We can do max retention as well.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

BA is saying all the right things. Now it's all about execution at the draft table, and a hell of a lot of luck.

Shame he didn’t do the right thing and can RT shortly after he landed as GM, would have been fun to see the previous roster with good coaching.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Mario Lemieux.

The retort should be: There are no Mario Lemieux’s in this draft.

My concern has been the unknown caliber of this draft (despite all the praise I read on F40 about its quality and depth). Don’t take my reservations seriously?…. From the Athletic:


And so the 2022 draft looms large. How good a draft is it? Corey Pronman, The Athletic’s draft guru, says most scouts believe it’s not an overly strong draft. Others believe it is possible some major junior players can emerge in the second half given the chaos from last year’s pandemic-affected season.
“It’s a good draft. I think we’ll know more as we move along,’’ Armstrong said. “It’s still really, really early. … It’s a different year because a lot of guys have been off and you have to be patient.’’

So here we are “rolling the dice” after not making the blatantly obvious and correct move of deep sixing RT to find out what we really had.

I hope this all works.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Hi guys, wondering what it would take to take Crouse off of your hands? I realize that he is your leading scorer among forwards and that he brings a lot of intangibles and that he is not a pure rental. What would your team be looking for in terms of picks or prospects (what positions would you say are weak in your prospect pool?). Also has Boyd been playing center all season? What would the ask be for him?

 

[rt]

NYR have two 2nd round picks. Either works for Kessel. We can do max retention as well.

BA is starting to be known for having a price and not backing off of it. Preferring to gamble on circumstances changing, in order for one team to suddenly be willing to meet that price. We saw it with OEL, Kuemper and Dvorak. It would not surprise me if Kessel’s price tag is a 2nd and teams have been unwilling to meet that price, so far. So I think you could be right on the money. Maybe he’s just waiting for a team like the Rangers to be desperate enough due to Kravtsov fleeing and Blais having season ending surgery, etc. And maybe with the new circumstances, they’ll be willing to meet that price.

 

[rt]

Hi guys, wondering what it would take to take Crouse off of your hands? I realize that he is your leading scorer among forwards and that he brings a lot of intangibles and that he is not a pure rental. What would your team be looking for in terms of picks or prospects (what positions would you say are weak in your prospect pool?). Also has Boyd been playing center all season? What would the ask be for him?

Broberg or Holloway for Crouse.

Boyd had been plying C all year. I’d say a 4th or 5th for him when Schmaltz is back would be fine.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Broberg or Holloway for Crouse.

Boyd had been plying C all year. I’d say a 4th or 5th for him when Schmaltz is back would be fine.

I would sooner deal our 1st as we will be needing both those guys on cheap ELC's while Puljujarvi, Bouchard and Crouse get sizable raises the next 2 offseasons. What would you consider Crouse on a non rebuilding team? A 2nd liner? A 3rd liner? His combination of size, grit and skill is very enticing to me.

 

[rt]

I would sooner deal our 1st as we will be needing both those guys on cheap ELC's while Puljujarvi, Bouchard and Crouse get sizable raises the next 2 offseasons. What would you consider Crouse on a non rebuilding team? A 2nd liner? A 3rd liner? His combination of size, grit and skill is very enticing to me.

I wouldn’t trade Crouse for Edmonton’s 1st. I would consider Crouse an extremely unique and valuable player on any team, regardless of which line he happens to skate on.

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

Broberg or Holloway for Crouse.

Boyd had been plying C all year. I’d say a 4th or 5th for him when Schmaltz is back would be fine.

I would sooner deal our 1st as we will be needing both those guys on cheap ELC's while Puljujarvi, Bouchard and Crouse get sizable raises the next 2 offseasons. What would you consider Crouse on a non rebuilding team? A 2nd liner? A 3rd liner? His combination of size, grit and skill is very enticing to me.

rt's ask seems high, and it is, but for good reason. Crouse is still developing as most power forwards are at 23. He still has 2-3 more years before we can say what he truly is. If he becomes a 30-40 point power forward, it might be a tad high and would be paying for us to accept a deal we aren't looking to make. If he's closer to a 40-50 point power forward, especially if his next contract is favorable, might be an underpayment. Quality power forwards that can score are one of the toughest players to acquire. We'll see what he ends up as but if he plays in Edmonton with McDavid, I'd bet on multiple 50 point seasons.

 

[Grimes]

The retort should be: There are no Mario Lemieux’s in this draft.

My concern has been the unknown caliber of this draft (despite all the praise I read on F40 about its quality and depth). Don’t take my reservations…. From the Athletic:


And so the 2022 draft looms large. How good a draft is it? Corey Pronman, The Athletic’s draft guru, says most scouts believe it’s not an overly strong draft. Others believe it is possible some major junior players can emerge in the second half given the chaos from last year’s pandemic-affected season.
“It’s a good draft. I think we’ll know more as we move along,’’ Armstrong said. “It’s still really, really early. … It’s a different year because a lot of guys have been off and you have to be patient.’’

So here we are “rolling the dice” after not making the blatantly obvious and correct move of deep dicing RT to find out what we really had.

I hope this all works.

Pronman actually seems more down on this draft that many. There are great points that many of these kids missed a ton of development time because of COVID, but skill is still skill. I'd also argue that the COVID break affected the 2020 and 2021 class more. I think another sour note comes from the lack of elite talent at the top. Wright is in his own tier and then the top ten has everyone else. I've mentioned it before but I think WJC will help define this draft class better.

The big thing to me is you look at the top 32 players and I want them all. I won't be as livid if we go off the board a bit as previous years because there are so many guys who have NHL level potential. The chance of feeling gifted to grab a guy that dropped is so high, whether this be Chelsey, McGroaty or Howard. We also have the ammo to maneuver the draft as we please.

Tldr: I think Pronman is getting caught up on the lack of special talent and isn't taking in consideration the sheer amount of talent this year. I get it. Next year will have 2-3 players at or above Wright's caliber. But right now I'm not as excited about kids past the top ten as I am for this season.

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

Pronman actually seems more down on this draft that many. There are great points that many of these kids missed a ton of development time because of COVID, but skill is still skill. I'd also argue that the COVID break affected the 2020 and 2021 class more. I think another sour note comes from the lack of elite talent at the top. Wright is in his own tier and then the top ten has everyone else. I've mentioned it before but I think WJC will help define this draft class better.

The big thing to me is you look at the top 32 players and I want them all. I won't be as livid if we go off the board a bit as previous years because there are so many guys who have NHL level potential. The chance of feeling gifted to grab a guy that dropped is so high, whether this be Chelsey, McGroaty or Howard. We also have the ammo to maneuver the draft as we please.

Tldr: I think Pronman is getting caught up on the lack of special talent and isn't taking in consideration the sheer amount of talent this year. I get it. Next year will have 2-3 players at or above Wright's caliber. But right now I'm not as excited about kids past the top ten as I am for this season.

Seems like we hear this every other year or so. I'm beginning to think most drafts are relatively equal so I don't worry about what the pundits say. Obviously some classes end up better than others but it feels like we have a slightly sliding average. Draft smart and hope for the best. When I say draft smart, I mean draft players you like too, not just BPA.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Pronman actually seems more down on this draft that many. There are great points that many of these kids missed a ton of development time because of COVID, but skill is still skill. I'd also argue that the COVID break affected the 2020 and 2021 class more. I think another sour note comes from the lack of elite talent at the top. Wright is in his own tier and then the top ten has everyone else. I've mentioned it before but I think WJC will help define this draft class better.

The big thing to me is you look at the top 32 players and I want them all. I won't be as livid if we go off the board a bit as previous years because there are so many guys who have NHL level potential. The chance of feeling gifted to grab a guy that dropped is so high, whether this be Chelsey, McGroaty or Howard. We also have the ammo to maneuver the draft as we please.

Tldr: I think Pronman is getting caught up on the lack of special talent and isn't taking in consideration the sheer amount of talent this year. I get it. Next year will have 2-3 players at or above Wright's caliber. But right now I'm not as excited about kids past the top ten as I am for this season.

So, like I said, we're rolling the dice. We gave up known NHL talent for the ol' crap shoot. Not arguing with you, just pissed off GMBA didn't can RT, so much sooner.

 

[hbk]

The retort should be: There are no Mario Lemieux’s in this draft.

My concern has been the unknown caliber of this draft (despite all the praise I read on F40 about its quality and depth). Don’t take my reservations seriously?…. From the Athletic:


And so the 2022 draft looms large. How good a draft is it? Corey Pronman, The Athletic’s draft guru, says most scouts believe it’s not an overly strong draft. Others believe it is possible some major junior players can emerge in the second half given the chaos from last year’s pandemic-affected season.
“It’s a good draft. I think we’ll know more as we move along,’’ Armstrong said. “It’s still really, really early. … It’s a different year because a lot of guys have been off and you have to be patient.’’

So here we are “rolling the dice” after not making the blatantly obvious and correct move of deep sixing RT to find out what we really had.

I hope this all works.

True. But the next draft has Connor Bedard and this isn’t a one year tank. Expect more assets with picks as bribes next summer.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

rt's ask seems high, and it is, but for good reason. Crouse is still developing as most power forwards are at 23. He still has 2-3 more years before we can say what he truly is. If he becomes a 30-40 point power forward, it might be a tad high and would be paying for us to accept a deal we aren't looking to make. If he's closer to a 40-50 point power forward, especially if his next contract is favorable, might be an underpayment. Quality power forwards that can score are one of the toughest players to acquire. We'll see what he ends up as but if he plays in Edmonton with McDavid, I'd bet on multiple 50 point seasons.

I see Broberg's potential as a top pairing LD at best and a 2nd pairing LD as his lower end (injuries and derailment can happen, but his skating, size and skill are a pretty rare combination). I see Holloway as a top 6 player that also can play a power forward game. The concern with Holloway is that his wrist has now had 2 surgeries on it. I think that this type of a trade could help us short term but could really burn our asses longer term and maybe even as a soon as next season. If our 1st isn't enough, what would we have to add to it to keep Broberg, Holloway and Bourgault?

 

[Heldig]

Broberg or Holloway for Crouse.

Boyd had been plying C all year. I’d say a 4th or 5th for him when Schmaltz is back would be fine.

I would argue Crouse is almost untouchable atm.

An emerging power forward that can skate like he can is a rare breed.