WJC: 2020 Team USA Roster Talk

[Chazz Reinhold]

Sure! I agree with assessment to some extent. Though, rewatching the game, I think my biggest complaint with Beecher is actually that he is too lazy. He doesn't apply the same effort on the forecheck, he kinda saunters around. He can be physical, and he was excessively for one play, but I think he really slacked off in that regard in this game and even I'd say in this tournament, and you'd see Caufield and Turcotte launching themselves up the ice after the puck and then here comes Beecher later at 60% speed too late to get to the puck or get to the puck first.

He also tried a couple centering attempts without adequately scouting out the target area. Made a lot of simple zone entry passes, and those were good too, but not a player with a lot of deceptive movement, not an incredible visionary, relies mostly on his speed and outlet passes. Not necessarily a bad thing, but together with the lazy forechecking and not winning pucks along the boards, just didn't bring enough to his linemates for the line to make sense. Beecher is good at zone entries, but so are Turcotte and Caufield, there's a bit of a redundancy there. However, a "grinder" he is not. "Scrub" is more accurate.

That's an interesting take. I haven't re-watched any of the games, so my opinions on players were based on what I saw in the moment. His seeming laziness would certainly explain why that line just never seemed to be in sync in the offensive zone. Regardless of the term that is most appropriate to describe Beecher (and Drury, since he was also a player I feel was miscast), I think the overarching point is that he wasn't a good fit where he was.

Further, Beecher's lack of creativity and vision likely hindered Turcotte and Caufield, i.e., players who have those talents and rely on those to produce (along with Turcotte relying on sheer hustle and give-a-shit attitude). Their games didn't mesh, and it's really frustrating that it was never mixed up after the second game.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yeah but your ability to see the game and rank players leaves much to be desired.

Anonymous internet pundit tried to attack me. What ever will I do?

What am I wrong about with the post you quoted? Or you were offended by something I said so you emotionally tried to attack me for it?

Edit: I saw your next attack in the next post. Your lack of self-awareness is frightening. You say I’m the worst poster on the website because I give an opinion that the majority of people agree with, and then you proceed to pour hate into 18 year old kids because they did something that isn’t your idea of fun. I won’t bother anymore with this. It speaks for itself with what you’ve said.

 

[King'sPawn]

I thought Beecher had one of the better tournaments. I don't think he was a problem with the roster.

It may have simply been a poor fit.

If you have him as a top Pker, maybe he should have spent more time with Pivonka, Hall, and/or Drury to give them more time to gel and generate chemistry?

 

[Leviathan899]

Anonymous internet pundit tried to attack me. What ever will I do?

What am I wrong about with the post you quoted? Or you were offended by something I said so you emotionally tried to attack me for it?

Edit: I saw your next attack in the next post. Your lack of self-awareness is frightening. You say I’m the worst poster on the website because I give an opinion that the majority of people agree with, and then you proceed to pour hate into 18 year old kids because they did something that isn’t your idea of fun. I won’t bother anymore with this. It speaks for itself with what you’ve said.

Ok you’re right, I did go over the top and attacking you personally was wrong, so I apologize for that. But I don’t think I ever stated I hate any of these kids, or as players. I simply just believe they’re not as good as people state and that they were over-drafted. I don’t hate turcotte or Caufield, I just think they are not nearly as good as their stats indicated last season.

 

[Leviathan899]

Anonymous internet pundit tried to attack me. What ever will I do?

What am I wrong about with the post you quoted? Or you were offended by something I said so you emotionally tried to attack me for it?

Edit: I saw your next attack in the next post. Your lack of self-awareness is frightening. You say I’m the worst poster on the website because I give an opinion that the majority of people agree with, and then you proceed to pour hate into 18 year old kids because they did something that isn’t your idea of fun. I won’t bother anymore with this. It speaks for itself with what you’ve said.

In relation to the Tik Tok video they posted, it is my opinion that is a show of immaturity, not something I would want to see out of 4 NHL first round picks two days before the tournament begins. If that’s their idea of fun, go right ahead. But doesn’t change that I feel it’s a clear show of immaturity.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Ok you’re right, I did go over the top and attacking you personally was wrong, so I apologize for that. But I don’t think I ever stated I hate any of these kids, or as players. I simply just believe they’re not as good as people state and that they were over-drafted. I don’t hate turcotte or Caufield, I just think they are not nearly as good as their stats indicated last season.

Who mentions their stats as the basis for their draft position and why are you saying this now as opposed to another time?

Do you think these players were drafted because of their stats? I know NHL teams are often dumb, but this isn't a video game where they can restart the device. Their job depends on getting these picks right. They watch these players play for a living, and thought they were worth their draft slots. And I'm not saying all these were the right picks or all of these players will turn into players worthy of their draft slots, but if you are going to call them overrated and not worthy of their draft slots, you should make a compelling case why instead of throwing straw-men out there.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I thought Beecher had one of the better tournaments. I don't think he was a problem with the roster.

It may have simply been a poor fit.

If you have him as a top Pker, maybe he should have spent more time with Pivonka, Hall, and/or Drury to give them more time to gel and generate chemistry?

I like Beecher's game. He's going to play in the NHL, and be a good bottom six player.

I think the kid has been put in positions to fail, and thats unfair to him. A lot of fans in the first round are expecting an impact NHL'er. Most don't want to look at the stats and see that late first rounder usually aren't impact NHL'ers. Getting a good bottom six center is a good result, but they still will consider that pick a failure usually. Beecher doesn't have high upside. Fans are going to call him a bust if he doesn't become a top six forward. If he was drafted 15 picks later, the pick would be criticized a lot less.

I also think putting him in a top 6/9 role in this tournament this year was setting him up to fail. In his own age group he wasn't a top 6 forward, and sometimes not even top 9. Playing in a tournament of mostly players a year older saw an outcome that we all would've guessed would happen. At a high level, he doesn't have the skill or hockey IQ to make plays on a line with skill players.

I'm sure the kid isn't upset that he was picked in the first instead of second and was placed in the top 6/9 all tournament instead of the fourth line, so I don't think we need to feel too bad for him, but these positions that he's been put in to get a lot of criticism are not his own doing. However, I also don't think we should purposely misrepresent the situation, like some Bruin fans want us to do.

 

[NUhockey]

In relation to the Tik Tok video they posted, it is my opinion that is a show of immaturity, not something I would want to see out of 4 NHL first round picks two days before the tournament begins. If that’s their idea of fun, go right ahead. But doesn’t change that I feel it’s a clear show of immaturity.

My idea of team fun entails providing each player with a copy of Ayn Rand's masterpiece Atlas Shrugged, requiring them to give me daily reports on the novel & how they can relate to it personally. Perhaps we'll let them have a soda pop with their dinner, where the rule is that only one person may speak at a time.

 

[blindpass]

My idea of team fun entails providing each player with a copy of Ayn Rand's masterpiece Atlas Shrugged, requiring them to give me daily reports on the novel & how they can relate to it personally. Perhaps we'll let them have a soda pop with their dinner, where the rule is that only one person may speak at a time.

Haha... ha... wait, are you being serious? It's hard to tell.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

That's an interesting take. I haven't re-watched any of the games, so my opinions on players were based on what I saw in the moment. His seeming laziness would certainly explain why that line just never seemed to be in sync in the offensive zone. Regardless of the term that is most appropriate to describe Beecher (and Drury, since he was also a player I feel was miscast), I think the overarching point is that he wasn't a good fit where he was.

Further, Beecher's lack of creativity and vision likely hindered Turcotte and Caufield, i.e., players who have those talents and rely on those to produce (along with Turcotte relying on sheer hustle and give-a-**** attitude). Their games didn't mesh, and it's really frustrating that it was never mixed up after the second game.

Lol, ITS ALL BEECHER'S FAULT that Caufield and Turcotte underperformed.

Newsflash, they got PP time without that lazy scrub
Beecher on their wing, what happened then?
Why didn't they light it up?

There is significant value in successful zone entries and exits. When either don't occur you are chasing the puck in your own end, increasing your chances of getting scored on, taking penalties, not being able to score and drawing penalties. Also don't agree at all with Beecher being lazy. Saw him chase down Canadian forward from
the O zone and do same thing against Finland when his
pass was picked.

 

[Joe Zanussi]

Ugggh....I’m a Bruins fan. And this board is going to make me hate Beecher. I’m not going to be able to prevent my subconscious from making me curl up into the fetal position whenever I hear his name. All because of this tedious, endless conversation. Is it almost over? Can we try to clear it up by Summer Series so I can try to read this board again? Any chance you guys can start a new thread where you can hold peace talks privately?

I’m particularly impressed that you guys have let it ruin at least three threads. Kudos.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Ugggh....I’m a Bruins fan. And this board is going to make me hate Beecher. I’m not going to be able to prevent my subconscious from making me curl up into the fetal position whenever I hear his name. All because of this tedious, endless conversation. Is it almost over? Can we try to clear it up by Summer Series so I can try to read this board again? Any chance you guys can start a new thread where you can hold peace talks privately?

I’m particularly impressed that you guys have let it ruin at least three threads. Kudos.

That psychopath is chasing me around threads pulling up and freaking out about any reference I make to Beecher. It's not healthy.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Just my 2 cents...

States have 4 medals (1 gold) in last 5 years which is tremendous
This team is stacked with future NHL stars and the US program is working tremendously well
Your coach seemed to favour one style of player over another which seemed odd to me
The fact he is a NCAA coach should be more to his credit than detriment.. NCAA is a massive NHL feeder league:
In The NHL - College Hockey, Inc. (note, the article is written by the NCAA so might be a bit biased)
Your main reason for not being in a semi is that you had the misfortune of facing another Top 5 team. If you had gotten Czechs/Swiss/Slovakia then you'd be gearing up for a gold medal run this morning. Unfortunately, 2 of the Big 5 always meet in a quarter and one goes home.

Dang Swiss. Not eating any cheese for awhile in protest for beating Finland.

 

[Joe Zanussi]

Where’s Bonney? I always learn something when he contributes. Have I missed his recap?

 

[William H Bonney]

Where’s Bonney? I always learn something when he contributes. Have I missed his recap?

I was dealing with a family emergency so I didn't see the QF until a few days after it happened and I already knew the result.

With everything going on I've kind of lost track of a lot of the tournament details in my head, so apologies if any of this is a miscalculation, but generally on the QF I wasn't surprised with how it turned out as the team was largely the same discombobulated mess it was from the start. They could have won that game as it was fairly even, but I don't think they would have won a medal regardless playing the way they were. Finland always plays us well, they won the special teams and thus the game. Watching it after the fact I think the thing that struck me most was the lack of line juggling in a game where they hadn't scored and went down 1-0 early in the 3rd with everything on the line. It seemed like the coaches just kept rolling the same lines as if this was just another regular season game, which was infuriating but not unexpected given the way they'd coached thus far.

Generally my thoughts on the tournament:

Coaching:

• Sandelin and his staff were failures and shouldn't touch this tournament again. The line combinations were awful, the player utilization was mind boggling, the special teams were garbage, and the urgency was non-existent. While I'm not surprised that Sandelin coached the talent out of a talented team, I was disappointed by it. I mean, Jack Drury was 1st overall in forward shifts (3rd in TOI/G). With Sandelin that's not surprising, but with that stat, it's not surprising the tournament went as it did either.
• The most frustrating theme that continually rears its ugly head with USAH coaching in this tournament is the stubbornness and lack of urgency. Too often the coaches set lines and refuse to deviate regardless of the results as if they have a long regular season to build chemistry. No matter what lines you set us fans will likely moan, but the point is to find chemistry and you have to keep trying until you find it. Sandelin, like a lot of his predecessors, refused to change and it helped sink the team. It's inexcusable to have game after game where it was clear the lines weren't in sync and not try to rectify it.

Team:

• You're not going to do well in this tournament with a pedestrian PP (take out the hot start and they were horrible) and the worst PK in the tournament. Inexcusable to be that bad on special teams considering the talent at their disposable on the PP, the number of checking line/PK style players they took, and the amount of time they should be spending on special teams in practice.
• I don't think there's much to complain about on player selection. With hindsight's benefit, I would have brought along Krygier instead of York and Janicke instead of Pivonka. They clearly didn't plan to play York from the start, so I would have brought along a physical shutdown defenseman instead as it's a lot easier for a guy to play that PK role and not much 5-on-5 than it is for a guy to QB a PP unit and not play 5-on-5. Pivonka and Janicke are similar players but I'd prefer the speedy guy in the PK/grinder role over the plodder.

Forwards:

• Weak '00 forward group was too much to overcome without Farabee and with Wahlstrom being dreadful. Pinto stepped up, which was huge, but the rest of the group was worthless. Wahlstrom was selfish and stupid all tournament, Drury played about 8-10 minutes/game more than he deserved, and the other checkers were inconsequential at best.
• Not enough '01s were ready to make an impact, which was a necessity given the shallow '00 forward group. Granted, I don't think the staff put most of them in the position to be successful, but outside of Zegras, Robertson, and Kaliyev, they didn't perform at all. And it took many games for Zegras to start getting ice time despite dominating. Turcotte and Caufield just could never get anything going and they're too talented and were too important for them to be complete no-shows and for the team to still perform.

Defense:

• Given that they never had a true #1 step up, I thought the group overall was okay. Emberson and Jones were the clear best players here and should have been playing 22+ minutes/game each instead of being 3rd/4th in ice time.
• Miller had a tough tournament. He had some nice moments but those were frequently overshadowed by his terrible gaffes and turnovers. And while he's always been a hot-and-cold player, we didn't get the "hot" side in this tournament at all.
• You can tell Samuelsson wasn't good by how our PK performed. Harris and Stastney were meh and York didn't play.

Goalies:

• Knight was okay. He's not to blame for the failure of the tournament, but he didn't play well either. For the most part, he stopped the shots you'd expect, but he wasn't really making many big saves for the team either. Like a lot of others, I expected more, so hopefully next year is a big tournament for him.

A lot of the posts shitting on individual prospects since I disappeared are the typical expected overreactions - it's HF of course - but largely shortsighted. It's one thing to be concerned about a 19 year old returnee who had the same flaws that have been plaguing them for years sink them here too. For example, if I were an Islanders or Rangers fan, I'd be concerned about Wahlstrom and Miller, not just because they were failures here, but because they were garbage in these 5 games for the same reasons they've struggled in the past. Calling out guys like Turcotte and Caufield for bad tournaments is justified, but shitting on them as prospects - Caufield a "marginal AHLer" - because of a poor 5 games in a tournament where 18 year old often struggle are the types of things that make this forum so unenjoyable at times.

Overall, an embarrassing tournament for USAH. I doubt it causes any of the soul searching it should as the old boys club will just circle the wagons as there's no accountability within USAH for failure. Vanbiesbrouck's helm thus far has been international tournament failure after failure. Maybe hiring a guy with little executive experience was a bad idea?

 

[Joe Zanussi]

Sorry to hear about the family emergency. Hope everything is ok.

Nice to read the write up. Well done, as always.

We’ll have to disagree about the intensity of the bitching on the board. This year, to me, was noticeably worse and more distracting than I’ve seen here.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Talent isn't an issue anymore for U.S. teams. Coaching on the other hand remains a crap shoot at best. Its holding us back.

 

[jj cale]

Everyone has crap coaching at times, some years are just better then others for everyone. No one can expect to win every year at this thing, especially with the player losses to NHL clubs that the U.S now experiences basically on a yearly basis which is actually a good thing as it shows the strength of hockey there now.

It's a tough tournament to win. In the last 5 years the U.S has 2 bronze, a gold and a silver, I think that is basically pretty much in line for what it could hope or expect at this point against the other four powers. That is a pretty solid record, gold every year is the goal but cannot be expected every year for anyone, not at this point in International hockey anyway.