WJC: 2020 Team USA Roster Talk

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Your take is definitely a little on the extreme side but him having such a bad tournament is just as to blame as others in here blaming 'grinders' playing too much. If Caufield were playing more minutes the team would've been worse off the way he was going. Same with Turcotte. People complain about them not playing enough but when they did get an opportunity what did they do with it?

I think this is a misnomer.

I see a lot of you criticizing these two players, specifically. I think what Zegras did has created faulty expectations about Caufield and Turcotte. Zegras had 9 primary assists in an incredibly small sample. He will likely never have 9 primary assists in that amount of minutes for the rest of his career. He was playing great, but that was a complete anomaly. The puck was going in when he passed the puck and all his passes were coming off. There was a thread on the mainboards a few days ago when Panarin had 10 points in 3 games. Zegras played 68:50 in the five games, which is about three games of minutes for an elite forward in the NHL. Thats the level of streak Zegras was on in this tournament. Those streaks don't mean other players with a similar situation of playing lower minutes should be held to that standard.

Caufield in five games hit 15 minutes once, the first game. Turcotte in five games didn't hit 15 minutes in any game. Caufield averaged 13:29 per game, Turcotte 12:35 per game. Caufield was 6th of the 13 forwards in TOI/G, Turcotte was 7th. However, Turcotte played 1 second more per game than Beecher and two more than Ford, so we are talking about nearly 9th forward minutes for the highest drafted player on your team. On what other team was a top five pick given 12:35 per game?

We can nitpick 2 points in 5 games, but Caufield played 67:27 and Turcotte played 62:55. Thats the equivalent of 3-4 games of minutes for players of their caliber. Is 2 points in 3-4 games so terrible? If you stretch it out to 5 games, it looks worse. Turcotte took 9 shots, 0 went in. The most on the team without scoring. The team shot 11.4%. Bad puck luck in a short tournament is something people don't want to discuss, but it's a factor.

I also think you can't forget that they both played the whole tournament on a line with at least one grinder. Drury sucked all tournament. He was in over his head in such a big role. The coach bet big on him being one of the best players in this tournament, and he lost. The coach gave Beecher huge minutes the whole tournament with Caufield and Turcotte. He was as useless as anyone. He'd throw the puck around the boards once he entered the offensive zone. He wasted a lot of offensive zone chances for both players. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Caufield played all tournament with Beecher. Turcotte might've had a worse lineman with the only undrafted player, Parker Ford, as a line-mate for the first game. Turcotte was moved to the wing, which isn't his natural position. Ford sucked all tournament, and can't play on a line with skill players.

This isn't to say both players couldn't have been better. They could've, but if you start with the position that these aren't your top players, you are operating this wrong. The problem comes before their production. It comes when you start out with the position that these two, along with Zegras, are not among your top 5 forwards. Those are three of the four highest drafted forwards on your team. Which other team does not have their highest draft picks in the biggest roles?

 

[Breakers]

What's overrated about it? If you claim the roster is overrated, it means some of the players on the team were overrated.

What's funny is that I'd say the most overrated player from that roster was the one player not released, Hughes. I think a lot of players from that team, Zegras for instance, were underrated because the other players were extremely good and there were so many big talents on that team.

How isnt it overrated?
they grabbed all the headlines from the draft with how stacked and good the roster was. 7 players chosen in the top 15. Kept talking about how they all play so well together.
Ohh because people got mesmerized by the U18 scoring totals, with 6 americans in the top 10 in scoring from that tournament........................... yet they got bronze.

You see members of that roster on this team and they were going to continue those scoring ways from the U18, and now they crap the bed without even a medal.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

How isnt it overrated?
they grabbed all the headlines from the draft with how stacked and good the roster was. 7 players chosen in the top 15. Kept talking about how they all play so well together.
Ohh because people got mesmerized by the U18 scoring totals, with 6 americans in the top 10 in scoring from that tournament........................... yet they got bronze.

You see members of that roster on this team and they were going to continue those scoring ways from the U18, and now they crap the bed without even a medal.

First of all, only 5 of those 7 were on this team, so we can't start blaming players for a result they weren't part of. And as I'm sure you are aware of, four of those five played extremely small roles on this team. Zegras played 5th forward minutes, Caufield 6th forward minutes, Turcotte 7th forward minutes. York played 7th defensemen minutes. I think it's hard to blame players a lot for not doing miracles with low minutes. It's statistically very unlikely with those minutes that players will put up big totals. I'd say 1 out of 4 putting up big totals with those type of minutes sounds about right. I think we should judge these players on their development as NHL prospects, not SSS tournaments like this where there are so many factors at play that there aren't during a full season.

 

[SpartanProdigy]

So bummed. Wait all year for this tournament. Just wanted to see 2 more USA WJC games, regardless of outcome. Thanks Sandelin, great work.

 

[TeddyBare]

What's overrated about it? If you claim the roster is overrated, it means some of the players on the team were overrated.

What's funny is that I'd say the most overrated player from that roster was the one player not released, Hughes. I think a lot of players from that team, Zegras for instance, were underrated because the other players were extremely good and there were so many big talents on that team.

A top 10 pick is underrated?

 

[KillerMillerTime]

I think this is a misnomer.

I see a lot of you criticizing these two players, specifically. I think what Zegras did has created faulty expectations about Caufield and Turcotte. Zegras had 9 primary assists in an incredibly small sample. He will likely never have 9 primary assists in that amount of minutes for the rest of his career. He was playing great, but that was a complete anomaly. The puck was going in when he passed the puck and all his passes were coming off. There was a thread on the mainboards a few days ago when Panarin had 10 points in 3 games. Zegras played 68:50 in the five games, which is about three games of minutes for an elite forward in the NHL. Thats the level of streak Zegras was on in this tournament. Those streaks don't mean other players with a similar situation of playing lower minutes should be held to that standard.

Caufield in five games hit 15 minutes once, the first game. Turcotte in five games didn't hit 15 minutes in any game. Caufield averaged 13:29 per game, Turcotte 12:35 per game. Caufield was 6th of the 13 forwards in TOI/G, Turcotte was 7th. However, Turcotte played 1 second more per game than Beecher and two more than Ford, so we are talking about nearly 9th forward minutes for the highest drafted player on your team. On what other team was a top five pick given 12:35 per game?

We can nitpick 2 points in 5 games, but Caufield played 67:27 and Turcotte played 62:55. Thats the equivalent of 3-4 games of minutes for players of their caliber. Is 2 points in 3-4 games so terrible? If you stretch it out to 5 games, it looks worse. Turcotte took 9 shots, 0 went in. The most on the team without scoring. The team shot 11.4%. Bad puck luck in a short tournament is something people don't want to discuss, but it's a factor.

I also think you can't forget that they both played the whole tournament on a line with at least one grinder. Drury sucked all tournament. He was in over his head in such a big role. The coach bet big on him being one of the best players in this tournament, and he lost. The coach gave Beecher huge minutes the whole tournament with Caufield and Turcotte. He was as useless as anyone. He'd throw the puck around the boards once he entered the offensive zone. He wasted a lot of offensive zone chances for both players. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Caufield played all tournament with Beecher. Turcotte might've had a worse lineman with the only undrafted player, Parker Ford, as a line-mate for the first game. Turcotte was moved to the wing, which isn't his natural position. Ford sucked all tournament, and can't play on a line with skill players.

This isn't to say both players couldn't have been better. They could've, but if you start with the position that these aren't your top players, you are operating this wrong. The problem comes before their production. It comes when you start out with the position that these two, along with Zegras, are not among your top 5 forwards. Those are three of the four highest drafted forwards on your team. Which other team does not have their highest draft picks in the biggest roles?

Beecher drove the net several times this game.
Get lost with your garbage takes.

 

[Czechboy]

I think we should judge these players on their development as NHL prospects

THIS.. you gotta figure at least 10 Americans (and I think I'm light) will be NHL players. Czechs also lost in quarters today... maybe 3? Maybe.

You lose a 10 day tournament while developing stream after stream of elite NHL players.

 

[Leafshater67]

Cole Caulfield is one of the worst players I've seen play in the WJC in a long time, just absolutely useless. I guess he can go back to beating up on crappy NCAA kids now but I don't see this guy ever becoming more than a marginal AHLer.

You misspelt Wahlstrom.

I’ve watched a fair bit of him and it seems, coincidentally everybody time I’ve watched him he had a terrible game.

He scored some points but he’s playing in the AHL against men and has a huge size advantage over most of these kids. He played one dimensional hockey and looks to have lower IQ.

Someone please explain the catch with this guy. I haven’t seen it in any of my times watching him play. Nice shot, athletic.. seems to be about it.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Who the phuc are you to crap on 18 years old?
You're a loser.

What if they're 19? 24? Is there a particular defining age at which I can receive your unqualified permission to be critical of players?

 

[Sojourn]

You misspelt Wahlstrom.

I’ve watched a fair bit of him and it seems, coincidentally everybody time I’ve watched him he had a terrible game.

He scored some points but he’s playing in the AHL against men and has a huge size advantage over most of these kids. He played one dimensional hockey and looks to have lower IQ.

Someone please explain the catch with this guy. I haven’t seen it in any of my times watching him play. Nice shot, athletic.. seems to be about it.

My only real experience with him is in this tournament, and he came across as pretty selfish and low IQ in his game.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

A top 10 pick is underrated?

Most people hadn't even heard of the guy until his U18 season. He was in the shadow of Hughes and Turcotte.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Beecher drove the net several times this game.
Get lost with your garbage takes.

What's funny is that I tried to be very diplomatic on this topic of how the coach deployed players prior to our loss. I had a feeling it wouldn't work, but I was willing for the sake of being respectful to take most of these opinions defending this deployment of players as valid with merits that I happen to disagree with. But since we got eliminated in the QF, we can now say pretty clearly that the coach's favorite grinders like Drury, Beecher, Ford, even Pinto, played too much and didn't get the job done. Our high skill early picks barely played. It's a risky strategy to not play your high picks, and to instead give their minutes to players that nearly anyone would admit are vastly inferior. If it doesn't work out, I don't know how you don't get significant blame.

If you get offended because your team drafted one of those grinders, that's too bad. Everyone who watched this team could tell Beecher contributed nearly nothing. We aren't haters because we admit one of the players on the team didn't deserve to play in the role he was put in.

 

[King'sPawn]

While part of it may be bias, I think Turcotte isn't getting more hate than he deserves.

He started the Wjc camp and tournament playing a position he never plays. Couple that with his poor playing time and misuse, and there was a lot that went wrong.

He set up his teammates and drove the play many times.

Of course, his production can't be excused completely, but he was far from the problem.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

 

[Jeune Poulet]

I'm not going to be as harsh and decisive as some others have been on this thread, but I have several concerns regarding Caufield after watching him this tournament. He wasn't as bad as some are suggesting and he is a good prospect with a lot of potential but he needs to improve significantly on almost every aspect of the game that doesn't involve stickhandling and his shot to be a worthwhile 1st round selection. He definitely didn't fall in the draft solely because of his size but because of his fairly one-dimensional skillset.

He seems to be farther from being ready than many reports suggested. I mean, I've heard people speculating he might make the roster next season or even at the end of this season (assuming the Habs had miraculously made the playoffs) and that's just completely ridiculous.

Caufield needs a lot of seasoning and I hope the Habs will not rush him to the NHL in order to avoid a tantrum like they did with Ryan Poehling, who is completely useless on a nightly basis and Kotkaniemi, who looks in over his head most nights.

 

[Zero Pucks Given]

Did this team ever really have a shot at gold with Scott ****ing Sandelin at the helm?

 

[SabresSharks]

USA Hockey needs to figure out the coaching. The most obvious change to me is loan an NTDP U18 coach, who has lengthy, recent, first-hand knowledge of most of the players, to the WJC team.

It's unrealistic to expect coaches with limited familiarity with their roster to consistently get the most out of it.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

As much as the terrible coaching sucked for the USA team there is a lot these players can take out of this tournament. The main thing is they are soon going to be at a level where you can’t do it all yourself, you need to be a team player and use your teammates. Wahlstrom’s selfishness was embarrassing and if he tries to play that way in the NHL he won’t be long for it. Caufield needs to round out his game more. As dangerous as a shot is there are many facets to hockey you can’t be a one trick pony.

 

[Pez68]

What's funny is that I tried to be very diplomatic on this topic of how the coach deployed players prior to our loss. I had a feeling it wouldn't work, but I was willing for the sake of being respectful to take most of these opinions defending this deployment of players as valid with merits that I happen to disagree with. But since we got eliminated in the QF, we can now say pretty clearly that the coach's favorite grinders like Drury, Beecher, Ford, even Pinto, played too much and didn't get the job done. Our high skill early picks barely played. It's a risky strategy to not play your high picks, and to instead give their minutes to players that nearly anyone would admit are vastly inferior. If it doesn't work out, I don't know how you don't get significant blame.

If you get offended because your team drafted one of those grinders, that's too bad. Everyone who watched this team could tell Beecher contributed nearly nothing. We aren't haters because we admit one of the players on the team didn't deserve to play in the role he was put in.

Coaching was terrible. The top picks are top picks for a reason. Playing Drury and Robertson more than Kaliyev, Turcotte, and Zegras is absolute clownshoes. Caufield was brutal and I would have benched him in the game against Finland. I still don't understand the f***ing infatuation with Drury, aside from his family ties. He's a nothing player as far as I'm concerned.

 

[blindpass]

Coaching was terrible. The top picks are top picks for a reason. Playing Drury and Robertson more than Kaliyev, Turcotte, and Zegras is absolute clownshoes. Caufield was brutal and I would have benched him in the game against Finland. I still don't understand the ****ing infatuation with Drury, aside from his family ties. He's a nothing player as far as I'm concerned.

Wasn't Caufield a higher pick than Kaliyev? What happened to top picks are top picks for a reason?

Anyway, not sure why you're hating on Robertson, he was generally good (though I didn't see much of the game yesterday).

 

[Pez68]

Wasn't Caufield a higher pick than Kaliyev? What happened to top picks are top picks for a reason?

Anyway, not sure why you're hating on Robertson, he was generally good (though I didn't see much of the game yesterday).

Caufield sucked. He was terrible. He tried to beer league hero the entire tournament. He thought he could just walk through the entire opposing team, like he normally does. I saw a lot of the same from Robertson. Instead of moving the puck when they drew 2-3 defenders, they tried to dangle, and turned it over. Constantly. I kept hoping one of them would get lit up trying that nonsense, and put an end to it, but Finland was content to just take the puck, and send it the other way. They played right into their hands.

Coaching was brutal. Those guys should have been sat on the bench every time they tried to go end to end, and dangle through three defenders.

Too much me, not enough we, from team USA. That's on the coach.

Also, any time someone wants to explain why Drury played as much as he did....I am all ears. He sucks. Looks like nothing but a 4th liner to me.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Caufield sucked. He was terrible. He tried to beer league hero the entire tournament. He thought he could just walk through the entire opposing team, like he normally does. I saw a lot of the same from Robertson. Instead of moving the puck when they drew 2-3 defenders, they tried to dangle, and turned it over. Constantly. I kept hoping one of them would get lit up trying that nonsense, and put an end to it, but Finland was content to just take the puck, and send it the other way. They played right into their hands.

Coaching was brutal. Those guys should have been sat on the bench every time they tried to go end to end, and dangle through three defenders.

Too much me, not enough we, from team USA. That's on the coach.


Also, any time someone wants to explain why Drury played as much as he did....I am all ears. He sucks. Looks like nothing but a 4th liner to me.

I'm a Bruins fan and hate the Leafs, but Robertson was very good until today and wasn't terrible today. Used his linemates when he should have and showed overall good hockey IQ.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

I think this is a misnomer.

I see a lot of you criticizing these two players, specifically. I think what Zegras did has created faulty expectations about Caufield and Turcotte. Zegras had 9 primary assists in an incredibly small sample. He will likely never have 9 primary assists in that amount of minutes for the rest of his career. He was playing great, but that was a complete anomaly. The puck was going in when he passed the puck and all his passes were coming off. There was a thread on the mainboards a few days ago when Panarin had 10 points in 3 games. Zegras played 68:50 in the five games, which is about three games of minutes for an elite forward in the NHL. Thats the level of streak Zegras was on in this tournament. Those streaks don't mean other players with a similar situation of playing lower minutes should be held to that standard.

Caufield in five games hit 15 minutes once, the first game. Turcotte in five games didn't hit 15 minutes in any game. Caufield averaged 13:29 per game, Turcotte 12:35 per game. Caufield was 6th of the 13 forwards in TOI/G, Turcotte was 7th. However, Turcotte played 1 second more per game than Beecher and two more than Ford, so we are talking about nearly 9th forward minutes for the highest drafted player on your team. On what other team was a top five pick given 12:35 per game?

We can nitpick 2 points in 5 games, but Caufield played 67:27 and Turcotte played 62:55. Thats the equivalent of 3-4 games of minutes for players of their caliber. Is 2 points in 3-4 games so terrible? If you stretch it out to 5 games, it looks worse. Turcotte took 9 shots, 0 went in. The most on the team without scoring. The team shot 11.4%. Bad puck luck in a short tournament is something people don't want to discuss, but it's a factor.

I also think you can't forget that they both played the whole tournament on a line with at least one grinder. Drury sucked all tournament. He was in over his head in such a big role. The coach bet big on him being one of the best players in this tournament, and he lost. The coach gave Beecher huge minutes the whole tournament with Caufield and Turcotte. He was as useless as anyone. He'd throw the puck around the boards once he entered the offensive zone. He wasted a lot of offensive zone chances for both players. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Caufield played all tournament with Beecher. Turcotte might've had a worse lineman with the only undrafted player, Parker Ford, as a line-mate for the first game. Turcotte was moved to the wing, which isn't his natural position. Ford sucked all tournament, and can't play on a line with skill players.

This isn't to say both players couldn't have been better. They could've, but if you start with the position that these aren't your top players, you are operating this wrong. The problem comes before their production. It comes when you start out with the position that these two, along with Zegras, are not among your top 5 forwards. Those are three of the four highest drafted forwards on your team. Which other team does not have their highest draft picks in the biggest roles?

Lol at the Beecher hate from you. Beecher had THE BEST 5/5 zone exit% and 3RD BEST zone entrance % on the team. Was one of the most physical players
on the team (yeah terrible hit today) also.

He set up one of the US best chances in 1st period
when rushed the puck and made a nice pass to the
right side wing who forced the Finnish goalie to make a nice right pad save.

Blaming Beecher for Turcotte and Caulfield's lack of
production is one of the worst takes on this thread.
Those 2 got PP time and care to tell me how many
goals they got from Caufield and Turcotte on the
PP when Beecher wasn't there? According
to you they both should have gotten 2 goals each on
the PP.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

As much as the terrible coaching sucked for the USA team there is a lot these players can take out of this tournament. The main thing is they are soon going to be at a level where you can’t do it all yourself, you need to be a team player and use your teammates. Wahlstrom’s selfishness was embarrassing and if he tries to play that way in the NHL he won’t be long for it. Caufield needs to round out his game more. As dangerous as a shot is there are many facets to hockey you can’t be a one trick pony.

The 1 on 1 crap is part of the problem with creating
a NTDP model. You ID these kids at 16 years of age
as being great and often times this is what you
get from them, a danglefest.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

You are really full of galaxy-brain takes today. To be fair, Beecher and Drury were essentially non-existent with their offensive capabilities, so you're unintentionally correct. You get a nice pat on the head!

Beecher had the #1 5/5 D zone exit % and 3rd best
O zone entrance %. So spare me this non-existent
O capabilites. He set up one of the best 1st period
US chances with a controlled entrance and nice pass to
the RW which the Fin goalie made a good right pad save on. Beecher drove wide in the 3rd period and had a
close in opportunity on it.

No one on Team USA forward core had a strong game
today. Best forwards in my viewing today were
Brink and Zegras.

How about lots of credit to Finland? Saw them play what
maybe game of their lives. They are the defending
Gold Medalist for a reason.