2020 Redraft - Top 5

[Golden_Jet]

The post I was responding to was a guy specifically talking about Lundell being much further behind offensively than the others listed.

Ya Lundell and Pinto are two great young offensive/defensive young gun centres,
Real good third line centres atm,

 

[CowbellConray]

Yeah but the odds of Lundell turning into a bonafide #1 center are very bad, regardless of whether centers take longer to develop or not.

Says who? I dont think it's VERY bad. He was a .5 ppg with very little PP time (and on the second unit). He had 29 EV points, shot 8%, and now has 15 points in 20 games in the playoffs. Also is very defensively sound.

I think he likely fits in as a solid David Krejci type player. But to say bonafide center chances are very bad is a slight to his potential.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Sanderson
Stutzle
Faber
Jarvis
Byfield

Sanderson (+4) Stud- holding him back from staying #1 is he isn't an elite points producer
Lafreniere (-1) Think a year from now he will be back to #1
Byfield (-1)
Stutzle (-1)
Jarvis (+7)
Faber (+39) ** just editted because didn't notice him on the list of drafted players from that year
Raymond (-3)

Stutzle
Faber
Sanderson
Byfield
Jarvis

I’d probably go

Stutzle
Sanderson
Byfield
Jarvis
Faber
Lafreniere
Raymond

Stutzle
Sanderson
Faber
Byfield
Raymond/Lafreniere

1 Stutzle
2 Byfield
3 Sanderson
4 Faber
5 Lafreniere

1. Stutzle
2. Laffy
3. Byfield
4. Jarvis
5. Lundell

1. Stutzle
2. Sanderson
3. Faber
4. Byfield
5. Raymond/Jarvis/Lafreniere

Halfway point of the season and Raymond leads the draft class in scoring again.
Over twice the points of Byfield, for example, who you all rated ahead of him.

Anyone interested in revising their takes?

I think we are seeing a situation where Raymond had a great shooting %, a really good PP year, where his team had a ton of PPs, and did really well. I dont know how sustainable that is moving into next year.

Raymond, btw, is shooting slightly higher than last season right now at close to 20%.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Halfway point of the season and Raymond leads the draft class in scoring again.
Over twice the points of Byfield, for example, who you all rated ahead of him.

Anyone interested in revising their takes?

Raymond, btw, is shooting slightly higher than last season right now at close to 20%.

No.

 

[newfy]

Calendar year of 2024 Raymond had 35 goals and 82 points in 82 games. Pacing for 33 goals and 86 points this season now, despite a slow start. Laffy and Byfield can't hold a candle to him right now, Stutzle isn't scoring goals the way he does 2 seasons straight now, Sanderson has taken a step back. Somehow Raymond was falling compared to a bunch of these guys in all these redrafts for a lot of people

One guy that didn't get enough credit was Rossi. I wasn't the biggest fan of him as a prospect but he's having a hell of a season. Same with Jarvis

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Calendar year of 2024 Raymond had 35 goals and 82 points in 82 games. Pacing for 33 goals and 86 points this season now, despite a slow start. Laffy and Byfield can't hold a candle to him right now, Stutzle isn't scoring goals the way he does 2 seasons straight now, Sanderson has taken a step back. Somehow Raymond was falling compared to a bunch of these guys in all these redrafts for a lot of people

One guy that didn't get enough credit was Rossi. I wasn't the biggest fan of him as a prospect but he's having a hell of a season. Same with Jarvis

Stutzle is recovering from both a wrist injury and a shoulder injury from last year, which had affected his shooting. Those two injuries can take a notoriously long time to fully recover from.

 

[danisonfire]

I just came here to tell you all that I have a Sanderson young guns rookie card so I hope he is #1

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

No.

Based on your posting history we didn't expect a rational take on a Red Wings player anyways.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Stutzle is recovering from both a wrist injury and a shoulder injury from last year, which had affected his shooting. Those two injuries can take a notoriously long time to fully recover from.

When he was scoring a lot earlier this season Sens fans said it was because he’s finally healthy.

 

[Golden_Jet]

When he was scoring a lot earlier this season Sens fans said it was because he’s finally healthy

Team has had the flu the last 2 weeks, PxP guy said was surprised Stutzle was even playing, he looked like a ghost he said.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Had

Team has had the flu the last 2 weeks, PxP guy said was surprised Stutzle was even playing, he looked like a ghost he said.

Probably Lafreniere and Byfield have the flu too.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Probably Lafreniere and Byfield have the flu too.

Why is that,
You do realize teams go through the flu each year, or is that hard to comprehend

 

[xVolchenkov]

When he was scoring a lot earlier this season Sens fans said it was because he’s finally healthy.

Would you put Raymond above Stutzle in a redraft?

 

[Akrapovince]

When are we going to have the Raymond is better than Stützle debate?

Would you put Raymond above Stutzle in a redraft?

I am right now. He’s on a tear and doesn’t make mistakes like Stützle does.

 

[newfy]

Stutzle is recovering from both a wrist injury and a shoulder injury from last year, which had affected his shooting. Those two injuries can take a notoriously long time to fully recover from.

When there was copmarisons at the start of the year and Stutzle had his hot start that wasnt the discussion. There was talk about how it was dumb to ever compare Stutzle to Raymond despite last season Raymond being clearly better. But Stutzle isnt even really a guy I have an issue with if you have him higher in a redraft, but lots of re-drafts have Stutzle climbing while dorpping Raymond, depsite the fact that theyre similar players.

Last season Raymond was better and so far this year its close, maybe edge to Raymond for his goal scoring. One is a riser and the other a faller for some reaosn though. Doesnt make sense. Really doesnt make sense that guys like Byfield or Lafreniere were being ranked ahead

Team has had the flu the last 2 weeks, PxP guy said was surprised Stutzle was even playing, he looked like a ghost he said.

Yeah the wings had a horrible flu bug right at the start of the year that crippled most of the team. I'm sure you were giving lots of leeway to the wings slow start partially being because of that though lol

 

[BonMorrison]

Raymond has been an absolute sicko this year.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Would you put Raymond above Stutzle in a redraft?

I think there's more of a debate to be had there than some people would like to admit. But the bigger question is do you think it's fair to rank Raymond outside the top 5, sometimes closer to the 8-10 range than the top 3-4 range?

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

stutzle - 1 point in 5 games, 5 points in 10

raymond - 8 points in 5 games, 11 points in 10

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I still take Lafreniere first overall...
Stutzle
Byfield
Jarvis
Sanderson

 

[CowbellConray]

Halfway point of the season and Raymond leads the draft class in scoring again.
Over twice the points of Byfield, for example, who you all rated ahead of him.

Anyone interested in revising their takes?

Raymond, btw, is shooting slightly higher than last season right now at close to 20%.

Nothing that I've said from this offseason has changed.

Raymond is:
Decent at EV
GREAT a the PP
Has a high shooting % that in most cases is unsustainable
Riding a high PDO

He has 21 EV points to Byfields 18 this year. Byfield doesn't play top PP time, Raymond does. Raymond doesnt sit behind a #1 star winger like Byfield sits behind Kopitar.

Raymond is a really good player - being one of the top 5-7 players in your draft isn't the slight I think you believe it is.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Riding a high PDO

Raymond has the 226th highest on-ice sh% among forwards this season.

He has 21 EV points to Byfields 18 this year. Byfield doesn't play top PP time, Raymond does. Raymond doesnt sit behind a #1 star winger like Byfield sits behind Kopitar.

LA has scored almost as many goals 5v5 as Detroit has 5v5+5v4. It's nothing short of a miracle that Raymond is as productive as he is on a team that struggled to get >20 SOG for most of the season before the coaching change.

 

[LarKing]

Nothing that I've said from this offseason has changed.

Raymond is:
Decent at EV
GREAT a the PP
Has a high shooting % that in most cases is unsustainable
Riding a high PDO

He has 21 EV points to Byfields 18 this year. Byfield doesn't play top PP time, Raymond does. Raymond doesnt sit behind a #1 star winger like Byfield sits behind Kopitar.

Raymond is a really good player - being one of the top 5-7 players in your draft isn't the slight I think you believe it is.

Agreed on the unsustainable shooting %. The rest is a lot of mental gymnastics trying to prop up a player who averages 40 points per 82.

Byfield may still end up the better player. But he's not close to Raymond right now.

 

[xVolchenkov]

I think there's more of a debate to be had there than some people would like to admit. But the bigger question is do you think it's fair to rank Raymond outside the top 5, sometimes closer to the 8-10 range than the top 3-4 range?

I personally wanted Ottawa to take Raymond with the 5th overall pick so I’ve always been a fan. He’d be in my top 5. That being said, a lot of players to like in this draft but at this point it would be hard to make an argument for them over Raymond. I’d probably have him 4 (Stu/Sanderson/Faber).

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Raymond has the 226th highest on-ice sh% among forwards this season.

Raymond has been great this year, it's been awesome to see his progression as he's added muscle. He's transformed into a guy who is really hard to knock off the puck - I did not expect him to fill out to nearly 190 lbs - visibly he looks closer to 6'0 now too (he was 5'11 170 in his draft year). Both him and Stutlze appear to be somewhat late bloomers in terms of physical maturity. Stutzle was like 5'10 165 before his draft year if I recall.

But Raymond's his all situations shooting percentage of 14.3% is likely unsustainable - it's up 16% from his previous career high and up 30% from his career average coming into this season.

That, and his 19-20% individual shooting percentage is likely too high.

That's not to say his current point totals are undeserved, but I think he's probably more of a 70-85 point 2 way winger than a 85-100 point guy.

 

[Felidae]

Stutzle
Raymond
Faber
Sanderson
Jarvis.

Its far from set in stone yet, tbh the reason I have Stutzle at 1 is cause his 2022-23 season is probably the highest peak of this group so far.. but the gap between him and Raymond's production has lessened considerably to the point they both have near identical PPG this season.

Faber and Sanderson seem really close too based on the stats. Overall production, TOI in all situations is very similar.

Jarvis is the only one who's gotten a few votes for a non Calder award.. finished 8th in selke voting last year.

Not confident in the order but I do think these 5 have been the clear best of the draft based on their NHL Careers so far.