Prospect Info: 2020 NHL Draft 19th Overall Pick, Braden Schneider, D

[nyr2k2]

You agree that Hajek stinks? That's fine. Most of the posters who vilify his play use advance stats as their evidence.

I think he's been mediocre at best based on what I see every night; and the statistics support what I'm seeing. Not the other way around.

 

[The New Russian Five]

I think there's significantly more comfort with playing Lundkvist or Schneider on the left side than there was with ADA. Having said that, I don't think the Rangers want to go that route long-term.

What's interesting is that you have three young defenseman who all could make very strong cases for playing in the NHL next season. I think that highly of Robertson, Schneider and Lundkvist.

But there may be an option where the Rangers bring in a more experienced left defenseman, for now, and let Robertson and Schneider eat a lot of time and play in different situations in Hartford.

I think think this would be the best way to go developmentally. Would rather not rush Robertson and Schneider. Lundkvist seems more than ready for the NHL. Having an experienced partner not named Brendan Smith would certainly help his transition.

Who could the rangers splurge a bit on for a 1 year deal as a good 3LD?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think think this would be the best way to go developmentally. Would rather not rush Robertson and Schneider. Lundkvist seems more than ready for the NHL. Having an experienced partner not named Brendan Smith would certainly help his transition.

Who could the rangers splurge a bit on for a 1 year deal as a good 3LD?

Marc Staal

Or Alec Martinez

 

[True Blue]

I think think this would be the best way to go developmentally. Would rather not rush Robertson and Schneider. Lundkvist seems more than ready for the NHL. Having an experienced partner not named Brendan Smith would certainly help his transition.

Who could the rangers splurge a bit on for a 1 year deal as a good 3LD?

Again, why is inserting Lundqvist not rushing him but inserting Schneider is? Schneider was a driver of a team's good play against men in Hartford this year when he was there. I am not saying that there is or isn't a benefit to him playing in Hartford for a time, but the same can be said for Lundqvist. I think that they arrive in camp and battle it out. And while Nils had the inside track, and probably rightly so, much like in the case of Miller this year, Schneider has the potential to not only open eyes but outright win the spot.

 

[GAGLine]

Again, why is inserting Lundqvist not rushing him but inserting Schneider is? Schneider was a driver of a team's good play against men in Hartford this year when he was there. I am not saying that there is or isn't a benefit to him playing in Hartford for a time, but the same can be said for Lundqvist. I think that they arrive in camp and battle it out. And while Nils had the inside track, and probably rightly so, much like in the case of Miller this year, Schneider has the potential to not only open eyes but outright win the spot.

Because Lundkvist is 2 years older and has played against men the last 4 years, while Schneider has a grand total of 2 games in the AHL.

 

[True Blue]

Because Lundkvist is 2 years older and has played against men the last 4 years, while Schneider has a grand total of 2 games in the AHL.

Two years older does not really mean that much more physically mature.

Anyway, to me a rookie is a rookie on most nights. If both show that they are ready, then both show that they are ready and then playing either is not rushing anyone. It is allowing the natural course of events to take place. Like I said, Lundkvist has the probable inside track and rightfully so. But it is not a given and I think that Schneider puts up quite a fight.

 

[E-Train]

Two years older does not really mean that much more physically mature.

Anyway, to me a rookie is a rookie on most nights. If both show that they are ready, then both show that they are ready and then playing either is not rushing anyone. It is allowing the natural course of events to take place. Like I said, Lundkvist has the probable inside track and rightfully so. But it is not a given and I think that Schneider puts up quite a fight.

They are less than 14 months apart in age. I do agree Lundkvist has the inside track and will be the 3rd RHD come October. I also agree that Schneider will fight to the end to make the team.

Great spot to be in for the big club.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

You agree that Hajek stinks? That's fine. Most of the posters who vilify his play use advance stats as their evidence.

You're not a pro scout so your opinion doesn't hold more weight than advanced stats.

 

[E-Train]

You're not a pro scout so your opinion doesn't hold more weight than advanced stats.

I think the problem with advanced stats here are not the stats themselves but the personalities of some of the messengers.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think the problem with advanced stats here are not the stats themselves but the personalities of some of the messengers.

But the personalities of "watch the game nerd" isn't annoying? They're both annoying.

 

[E-Train]

But the personalities of "watch the game nerd" isn't annoying? They're both annoying.

Well I can’t argue that there’s not a lot of annoying s*** here at times.

 

[brians1128]

Marc Staal

Or Alec Martinez

Niklas Hjalmarsson?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I think he's been mediocre at best based on what I see every night; and the statistics support what I'm seeing. Not the other way around.

99% of Hajek's struggles are due to Smith. Smith is constantly out of position and leaving Hajek out to dry. I imagine his fancy stats and everything else would look much better with a more proficient partner.

I mean, I've seen numerous times where Hajek is blamed for something and replay clearly shows it was a Smith issue.

 

[jay from jersey]

Because Lundkvist is 2 years older and has played against men the last 4 years, while Schneider has a grand total of 2 games in the AHL.

So did kakko, so did Kravtsov. The first time. The truth of the matter is guys coming over from Europe take longer to adjust on smaller ice surface with faster players. The nhl rink size is all Schneider knows. It’s going to be 50/50 who wins the spot. With how how they are on Robertson, I wouldn’t be surprised if he opened eyes at camp as well and they refuse to send him down. If these kids are ready I say let them play. Don’t stick them in Hartford for a year if not needed to accommodate 1 player. I suspect if all 3 prove ready 1 is going to be put in a package deal. Depending on what management thinks and who they want, pick your poison

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So did kakko, so did Kravtsov. The first time. The truth of the matter is guys coming over from Europe take longer to adjust on smaller ice surface with faster players. The nhl rink size is all Schneider knows. It’s going to be 50/50 who wins the spot. With how how they are on Robertson, I wouldn’t be surprised if he opened eyes at camp as well and they refuse to send him down. If these kids are ready I say let them play. Don’t stick them in Hartford for a year if not needed to accommodate 1 player. I suspect if all 3 prove ready 1 is going to be put in a package deal. Depending on what management thinks and who they want, pick your poison

Lundkvist is 21 this summer

Kakko made his NHL debut at age 18, Kravtsov came over at age 19

When players have matured physically and are good enough, they don't have to adjust to the smaller ice surface.

Aho, Donskoi, Tarasenko, Kuznetsov, Panarin, Pettersson, Gusev, Kopitar, Bäckström, Bratt, Söderberg and Lehkonen are just some examples. None of them played in the AHL to "adjust to smaller ice surface".

 

[jay from jersey]

Lundkvist is 21 this summer

Kakko made his NHL debut at age 18, Kravtsov came over at age 19

When players have matured physically and are good enough, they don't have to adjust to the smaller ice surface.

Aho, Donskoi, Tarasenko, Kuznetsov, Panarin, Pettersson, Gusev, Kopitar, Bäckström, Bratt, Söderberg and Lehkonen are just some examples. None of them played in the AHL to "adjust to smaller ice surface".

I guarantee if you go back and look at those players quotes from their first year, they will mention the speed of the game and the size of the players being different and having to adjust. I’m not saying lundkvist will not adjust or it’s going to take a year, but it is certainly a factor. I hope he comes in and rips it up. But for a guy that played on a larger ice surface all his life and then hope into the best league in the world there is absolutely an adjustment period. There is less time to pass,shoot,see the ice, etc

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I guarantee if you go back and look at those players quotes from their first year, they will mention the speed of the game and the size of the players being different and having to adjust. I’m not saying lundkvist will not adjust or it’s going to take a year, but it is certainly a factor. I hope he comes in and rips it up. But for a guy that played on a larger ice surface all his life and then hope into the best league in the world there is absolutely an adjustment period. There is less time to pass,shoot,see the ice, etc

Yes, what I meant is that they don't have to adjust in the AHL. All those players went straight to the NHL, and they're not all super stars either.

 

[Raspewtin]

Not watching hockey; just reading stats. Get a television.

I do have a television and watch the games, just in case you were wondering

 

[Fitzy]

I think the problem with advanced stats here are not the stats themselves but the personalities of some of the messengers.

Well, at least that the people who use advanced stats profusely tend to view them as the end all be all of player assessment, rather than one of what I consider to be the three-legged-stool of fan player assessment.

1. Eye Test
2. Metrics
3. Traditional statistics

Some people are a lot worse at #1 than others, which is why it sometimes gets a bad wrap, but there are nuances and events in a game that don't get captured by statistics.

The Metrics people will just out and out say that "Player X is really good or really bad" based entirely on metrics even when the other two legs of the stool are pointing the opposite direction.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Well, at least that the people who use advanced stats profusely tend to view them as the end all be all of player assessment, rather than one of what I consider to be the three-legged-stool of fan player assessment.

1. Eye Test
2. Metrics
3. Traditional statistics

Some people are a lot worse at #1 than others, which is why it sometimes gets a bad wrap, but there are nuances and events in a game that don't get captured by statistics.

The Metrics people will just out and out say that "Player X is really good or really bad" based entirely on metrics even when the other two legs of the stool are pointing the opposite direction.

But I feel like the eye test is a lot more subjective. Sure stats can be read in different ways, but less so than the eye test. I don't think "eye test" pointing in the different direction means that the eye test needs to be weighted at 33% here. And even if the eye test is not as subjective as I say how many people here are qualified to actually judge by the eye test correctly. We're not pro scouts.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I guarantee if you go back and look at those players quotes from their first year, they will mention the speed of the game and the size of the players being different and having to adjust. I’m not saying lundkvist will not adjust or it’s going to take a year, but it is certainly a factor. I hope he comes in and rips it up. But for a guy that played on a larger ice surface all his life and then hope into the best league in the world there is absolutely an adjustment period. There is less time to pass,shoot,see the ice, etc

Yea but the discussion is more about if the adjustment is so large that they are unable to win a spot. They may have been adjusting but they also were good enough to still hold down a spot. Just something to consider

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

But I feel like the eye test is a lot more subjective. Sure stats can be read in different ways, but less so than the eye test. I don't think "eye test" pointing in the different direction means that the eye test needs to be weighted at 33% here. And even if the eye test is not as subjective as I say how many people here are qualified to actually judge by the eye test correctly. We're not pro scouts.

In this case you completely dismissed any and all insight @E-Train could possibly have by leaning on advanced stats as a crutch.

It's possible, due to subjectivity, someone comes up with poor evaluations of a player. Like pretty much every evaluation you've ever offered on goalies for example. But it's also possible they see lots of little things that add up to a much better performance than the stats indicate

 

[duhmetreE]

But I feel like the eye test is a lot more subjective. Sure stats can be read in different ways, but less so than the eye test. I don't think "eye test" pointing in the different direction means that the eye test needs to be weighted at 33% here. And even if the eye test is not as subjective as I say how many people here are qualified to actually judge by the eye test correctly. We're not pro scouts.

Why is Hajek and/or Howden struggling? posting a graph, does not tell you why.

Being a 'scout' is about experience, knowledge and a little bit of intuition. It's not a super power. If you played and watched hockey all your life, you should be able to, somewhat effectively, evaluate a player and/or a team.

There's value in analytics but it does not supersede eye-test.

 

[gravey9]

Yes, what I meant is that they don't have to adjust in the AHL. All those players went straight to the NHL, and they're not all super stars either.

Lundkvist is a very smart player. He seems pretty economical in his play. So, he will figure it out quicker than others.

That said -- he plays D. All the players you mentioned as being able to step in quicker to the NHL are forwards. When the shape of the rink changes between leagues, I suspect there will be an adjustment in gap control, positioning, how much more of the game is based on point shots and screens. Lots of things, never mind the speed of the game. I think Lundkvist will adjust well. His hockey IQ is very very good. He reads the play really well. But there will be some big adjustments in how he reads the game.

In a perfect world (for him, not us), he has the Hagelin/McDonagh timeline where he starts in HFD and once he's adjusted (10-30 games) comes up and stays up for the next 10-15 years.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Lundkvist is a very smart player. He seems pretty economical in his play. So, he will figure it out quicker than others.

That said -- he plays D. All the players you mentioned as being able to step in quicker to the NHL are forwards. When the shape of the rink changes between leagues, I suspect there will be an adjustment in gap control, positioning, how much more of the game is based on point shots and screens. Lots of things, never mind the speed of the game. I think Lundkvist will adjust well. His hockey IQ is very very good. He reads the play really well. But there will be some big adjustments in how he reads the game.

In a perfect world (for him, not us), he has the Hagelin/McDonagh timeline where he starts in HFD and once he's adjusted (10-30 games) comes up and stays up for the next 10-15 years.

Ok. How about Alexei Emelin, Dmitri Kulikov, Tobias Enström, Nikita Zaitsev, Ossi Väänänen, Kim Johnsson, Mattias Öhlund, Daniel Tjärnqvist, Artyom Zub, Vlad Gavrikov, Michal Kempný, Marek Židlický?

Alexander Romanov walked straight into the NHL this season and he's from the same draft as Lundkvist. I can probably find another 20 European defensemen who made the jump straight to the NHL and didn't need time in the AHL simply because they were ready