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2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread

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Joey Bones said:
Both are better options than Lias....

I think people tend to forget that Lias was a reach pick at No. 7. He was ranked in the mid-teens that draft. Most wanted Mittelstadt and Brannstrom, I remember really wanting Suzuki there. Besides the point, Lias had that two-way play with HV71, but the offensive upside was limited/questionable. He was always pegged, at most, to be a 2C in the NHL. That is looking very hazed now, but he's still young. Remember, it took Ryan Johansen until he was 22 to really start becoming something. Hell, Michael Dal Colle (who I thought was going to be a star in this league) has just became a bottom-6 player with the Islanders in his 24th birth year. I think Andersson needs to work hard to get there now, but he's still got time.

Lundell is a defensive center and playing in Liiga consistently. That automatically makes him a "safe" pick. But, he's showing this year that he does have offensive instincts and ability to be a game changer. He's at a .60 PPG with HIFK with 6 goals in 20 games. That's really good for an 18 year old in pro hockey. Kakko last season had finished the year at a .84 PPG pace with 22 goals in 45 games. When watching the two play, it's obvious that Kakko is a special player offensively, but Lundell is showing that he can keep up in pro hockey. I think Lundell is a lot better than people make him out to be.

Stutzle is a different player than Lundell. Definitely more of a flashy playmaker. He's doing things in the DEL that most haven't seen since Draisaitl (although he and Draisaitl are, too, different players). He should be getting steam to be a top 5 candidate, especially since some have underwhelmed (most on HF know he had this capability, though). But he's got a bit of a hill to climb to the NHL. For starters, flashy playmakers need to develop a defensive game and speed for the NHL. Sometimes thinking the game that quick doesn't always work. Look at Buchnevich. There are games where he looks like a stellar player.... then there are games where he shoots/passes into players or through their feet. Stutzle has that capability to be something great in the NHL, but it's more likely the case he doesn't pan out to the potential. That's not a knack on him, though. He's electrifying!! But more of a gamble, IMO, than Lundell.

This is to also say that Lundell might not live up to the potential, too. The draft is a gamble. Even some No. 1 overall picks don't pan out. Who knows?

In the end, if the Rangers were selecting and these two were on the board.... I would be happy with either!!
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I agree both are better than Lias which is why i said Lias < Mittelstadt < Lundell < stutzle. Lundell is safer but if Stutzle works out we have another superstar to go with Panarin and Kakko.
 
jas said:
Thoughts on Stutzle and how he compares to Lundell?
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Very different player.

Whereas Lundell is very cerebral, and seems to have the ability to slow the game down in his head, Stutzle is guy who tends to be more skill driven. His motor is fueled more by what he can do physically - skating, shooting, backing people up. It's all about speed, quickness, not giving the opposition time to set up.

Stutzle can be a bit of a human highlight reel. He'll make an amazing pass, put the puck wherever he decides, and generally look like he's playing a different game than a lot of his peers. The question is how do those skills convert and translate when you're playing the best talent in the world. It's that whole real-world application that I mention with certain young players. From a pure offensive skill standpoint, he's arguably in the top 3 or 4 players in this draft. He's going to need to channel that ability, and work on the non-offensive elements of his game though. Right now I see a game that can decimate teenagers. I don't know if it's going to be nearly as successful against men, without some serious refinement. In other words you're not going to blow by every NHL defenseman, while dancing the puck around on your stick, every single shift. Sometimes you're not going to have the puck, and an NHL defenseman is going to be on you like a shark on meat.

But there's an energy when he has the puck and you fully expect that almost anything is possible. He handles the puck exceptionally well, he's both fast ans slippery, he can pass and shot, his game has a natural flow to it, it looks natural and fluid and he can make something out of nothing. He's also a kid where you wonder what he can do with some top talent. On the one hand, you see him making some pretty questionable decisions with the puck. On the other hand you wonder how he does when he has elite skill players who can truly compliment him.

From an excitement standpoint, he reminds me of a guy like Gaborik when he was a teenager. You see him on the ice and you immediate edge closer to the action in your seat.

Personally, I feel that if he was playing in Sweden or a more established league at this point, he'd be the clear number three prospect in this draft. He's generally caught my attention more than guys like Raymond and Holtz this season. But, and this is a big but, it's hard to compare his surrounding competition and situation to the one experienced by those two.
 
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rangersfansince08 said:
I agree both are better than Lias which is why i said Lias < Mittelstadt < Lundell < stutzle. Lundell is safer but if Stutzle works out we have another superstar to go with Panarin and Kakko.
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When, though? Would that be next season or in two or three. Think Stutzle would still need time to develop for any of that to happen.

And putting two playmakers with a power forward might be a lot on NYR's defensive game. I would rather split the lines and create better offensive depth for all 4 lines....
 
Edge said:
Very different player.

Whereas Lundell is very cerebral, and seems to have the ability to slow the game down in his head, Stutzle is guy who tends to be more skill driven. His motor is fueled more by what he can do physically - skating, shooting, backing people up. It's all about speed, quickness, not giving the opposition time to set up.

Stutzle can be a bit of a human highlight reel. He'll make an amazing pass, put the puck wherever he decides, and generally look like he's playing a different game than a lot of his peers. The question is how do those skills convert and translate when you're playing the best talent in the world. It's that whole real-world application that I mention with certain young players. From a pure offensive skill standpoint, he's arguably in the top 3 or 4 players in this draft. He's going to need to channel that ability, and work on the non-offensive elements of his game though. Right now I see a game that can decimate teenagers. I don't know if it's going to be nearly as successful against men, without some serious refinement. In other words you're not going to blow by every NHL defenseman, while dancing the puck around on your stick, every single shift. Sometimes you're not going to have the puck, and an NHL defenseman is going to be on you like a shark on meat.

But there's an energy when he has the puck and you fully expect that almost anything is possible. He handles the puck exceptionally well, he's both fast ans slippery, he can pass and shot, his game has a natural flow to it, it looks natural and fluid and he can make something out of nothing. He's also a kid where you wonder what he can do with some top talent. On the one hand, you see him making some pretty questionable decisions with the puck. On the other hand you wonder how he does when he has elite skill players who can truly compliment him.

From an excitement standpoint, he reminds me of a guy like Gaborik when he was a teenager. You see him on the ice and you immediate edge closer to the action in your seat.

Personally, I feel that if he was playing in Sweden or a more established league at this point, he'd be the clear number three prospect in this draft. He's generally caught my attention more than guys like Raymond and Holtz this season. But, and this is a big but, it's hard to compare his surrounding competition and situation to the one experienced by those two.
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Just to add to this....

We are currently seeing this transition with Kravtsov. Have to develop the full game in order to proceed in the NHL.
 
Rangerfan4life90 said:
I'm guessing Lafreniere would be the #1 pick followed by either Hughes or Kakko
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My ignorant, uninformed impression is:

Lafreniere

...

Hughes
Kakko
..
Byfield
Raymond

...

Byram
Turcotte
Zegras
Dach
Holtz

...

Lundell
Stutzle
Perfetti
Cozens
Podkolzin

And as the tiers grow, the order within those tiers matters less and less.
 
Joey Bones said:
Just to add to this....

We are currently seeing this transition with Kravtsov. Have to develop the full game in order to proceed in the NHL.
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Agreed.

IMO Stutzle is in that same ballpark as Kravtsov and Denisenko were in 2018 - arguably one of the most skilled players in his draft class and someone who could very well be counted among the best two or three players someday if everything comes together.

Germany, in some ways, reminds me a little of Sweden and Russa back in the 90s. There was still an element of the unknown back then, and an intrigue around the prospects they were churning out. Today, I think that new frontier is Germany. People are paying attention to what they're seeing there, but they're not yet completely sure how to process or project what they're seeing.

From a natural ability standpoint, Stutzle is as good as any prospect Germany has produced. In some ways, it can be argued he looks even more gifted. But there is an element of refinement that will need to take place in order for him to take that next step.

I can tell everyone here that Stutzle does things at his age that Bokk and Draisaitl could not/did not do. The question is whether those things will work as he moves forward and whether he can adapt if they don't. That will be the intrigue moving forward.
 
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Edge said:
Agreed.

IMO Stutzle is in that same ballpark as Kravtsov and Denisenko were in 2018 - arguably one of the most skilled players in his draft class and someone who could very well be counted among the best two or three players someday if everything comes together.

Germany, in some ways, reminds me a little of Sweden and Russa back in the 90s. There was still an element of the unknown back then, and an intrigue around the prospects they were churning out. Today, I think that new frontier is Germany. People are paying attention to what they're seeing there, but they're not yet completely sure how to process or project what they're seeing.

From a natural ability standpoint, Stutzle is as good as any prospect Germany has produced. In some ways, it can be argued he looks even more gifted. But there is an element of refinement that will need to take place in order for him to take that next step.

I can tell everyone here that Stutzle does things at his age that Bokk and Draisaitl could not/did not do. The question is whether those things will work as he moves forward and whether he can adapt if they don't. That will be the intrigue moving forward.
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Perfect way to put it!!
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
I don't really consider Lundell a "safe pick". I think he is the 2nd best center in the draft after Byfield and should go quite high.
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Come on, AK. You know the drill. People hear: High floor, effort, cerebral, 200 foot game and equate it all with being a "safe pick".

Then add on to it that he is yet another soft Euro.........
 
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GeorgeKaplan said:
I understand people’s wariness about ‘safe’ guys, but I really do feel that Lundell can become a for real 1C in the NHL
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Not sure about the #1C part, but it is not out of the question. At a minimum, the kid has 2C written all over him and there is nothing wrong with that.

The thing with Lundell, and this is just my view, is that he may be a slow climber in his career. In other words, he may well play 3C for a few years before a team moves him up to 2C, etc. And there is nothing wrong with that.

But expecting instant gratification with him or virtually anyone else in this draft, is setting yourself up for disappointment.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
I don't really consider Lundell a "safe pick". I think he is the 2nd best center in the draft after Byfield and should go quite high.
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Lundell won't go high in my opinion.
HIFK announced yesterday ( Saturday afternoon in Finland's time ) Lundell is got injured.
And he''ll be sidelined 6 weeks.

This means also that Lundell will miss U20 WJC's which will be big hit for his draft stock.
Because now guys like Stutzle, Holtz and Raynond has all chances to out-play and out-score Lundell out of TOP5 / TOP10 draft position having good or very tournament in U20 WJC's.

Only way to Lundell secure his TOP10 pick.
Is to play so well as ever possible rest of SM liiga's regular season and playoffs.

Also making Finland's IIHF men's worlds roster
and play in IIHF worlds so well as Kakko did this year wouldn't hurt Lundell's draft value.
 
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ChicagoBullsFan said:
Lundell won't go high in my opinion.
HIFK announced yesterday ( Saturday afternoon in Finland's time ) Lundell is got injured.
And he''ll be sidelined 6 weeks.

This means also that Lundell will miss U20 WJC's which will be big hit for his draft stock.
Because now guys like Stutzle, Holtz and Raynond has all chances to out-play and out-score Lundell out of TOP5 / TOP10 draft position having good or very tournament in U20 WJC's.

Only way to Lundell secure his TOP10 pick.
Is to play so well as ever possible rest of SM liiga's regular season and playoffs.

Also making Finland's IIHF men's worlds roster
and play in IIHF worlds so well as Kakko did this year wouldn't hurt Lundell's draft value.
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Well that's to say if all those other players do so well to catch the eyes of rankers. Everyone else has been pretty mediocre. Other than that, I think what he has done so far is a good indication of what he can bring. What was the injury, though? Tough break to be out that long. Let's see how he comes back from injury!!
 
I watched the game on nhl network featuring byfield. He seems a bit raw yet and I thought his skating was ok. I guess I am not sure what I witnessed. Definitely lots of skill there but it may take some time to put it all together. Need a little help somebody.
 
Joey Bones said:
https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-ale...uinton-byfield-and-yaroslav-askarov-1.1403436

Craig Button's November rankings. For some reason has Lapierre at No. 5 and Stutzle, Holtz, and Lundell way lower....

Askarov, deservedly, in the top 5.

New guy in the top 15 mix, William Wallinder. Never heard of him, yet. Will have to do my research....
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Lundell may have dropped due to injury. Lapierre at 5 is a bit of a stretch. Askarov does deserve top 5. Listen, if he is top 5, the more players from the Q that appear near there, the better. The Rangers have not been dipping into the Q that early. To me, and being realistic and not dreaming of Byfield, if the Rangers can walk away with a Raymond, Holtz, Lundell or a Holloway, it is a home run.
 
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Joey Bones said:
Raymond has vastly underperformed & Holtz has been okay. Was expecting more out of Perfetti. Lapierre & Barron have gone in the opposite direction.

I mean, yeah, seven guys are doing great, but the rest have been pretty blah....

And to be fair, Zary wasn’t considered to be in the top 10. He’s now rising, but originally wasn’t regarded as such in the beginning. Same argument could be said about Stutzle, too, but I think most on here thought he had the capability.
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Raymond has vastly underperformed? Ehhh, no he hasn't, not at all...



He can't Control his usage. Holtz has also been really good, as has Gunler. This draft is still looking to be the best draft ever in my opinion, Europe is absolutely stacked with the Swedes and then also Lundell doing great, Stutzle, Mysak, Amirov, Askarov etc... Seems to me people expect them all to produce tons of Points without looking into the context of their usage and the fact they're playing pro hockey.
 
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Joey Bones said:
https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-ale...uinton-byfield-and-yaroslav-askarov-1.1403436

Craig Button's November rankings. For some reason has Lapierre at No. 5 and Stutzle, Holtz, and Lundell way lower....

Askarov, deservedly, in the top 5.

New guy in the top 15 mix, William Wallinder. Never heard of him, yet. Will have to do my research....
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Wallinder is a big puck moving D-man with really smooth skating, had the opportunity to Watch him 4 games live at the five nations here in Sundsvall earlier this month. He's very raw though and should be nowhere near #15 right now, he's towards the back end of the 2nd for me. Size, smooth skating, great hands but very raw and questionable decision making…. Reminds me of Sean Day quite a bit :)
 
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