Draft 2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part VII

[QJL]

Love the Biondi mention but I think he’s going earlier than most think. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him taken in the 2nd.

 

[Joey Bones]

Yeah, I like him. I like the draft dynasty guy too. I should say though that between the two I'm completely confused by Roni Hirvonen. Draft Dynasty has clips showing Hirvonen struggling mightily going North/South while Will(?) from Scouching talks up his speed and in Will's clips he doesn't look nearly as bad. Then I go to the Black Book and they have him with average speed but ugly technique. I'm kind of thinking he's a shit skater but WTF! what do I know?

I'm not so keen on Yannick's analyses. He tends to over hype the good and bad in some players. For example Lundell being too slow, yet praises a guy like Quinn for the amount of offense he puts up. Clearly missing context between the two. He, also, mentions he watches clips of plays and does his audio analysis over the said highlight. Will actually documents the in-game video and catches each individual shift per prospect and continues to watch that prospect over a week or so of games.

I feel people get lost in that difference. Players can have bad games, but like Coach Quinn mentions, it's about the amount of bad games you have that need to be minimized. That's where I favor a channel like Will's who has consistently saw the good and bad in a player's performance and shows a lot more evidence to back that up. Yannick goes a little overboard with his analyses over a small amount watched. You could, also, tell in his latest ranking videos who he favors over who based on highlights (and doesn't even consider a goalie as good as Askarov in there, which I find insulting TBH).

Not to bash on the guy, he shows the "want" to provide good info on draft eligible prospects. But if I'm someone who wants to gain insight on prospects and only have a platform like Youtube to view, I would highly recommend going the shift-by-shift route and just watch players play. That's truly the only way one could base their own projections on. With that said, I have the luxury of being able to watch a ton of hockey via a friend so I don't usually watch highlight videos to study. In doing that, I can tell who really is doing their homework and channels like Scouching, CrossBar Hockey and our very own @Steve Kournianos do a great job with that.

 

[Joey Bones]

Greig's age was something that came up in discussions --- almost exactly to your point. It's also a point that was made about Byfield.

Grieg is one of the younger kids in the draft, particularly one of the younger first round picks.

There's a feeling that his game is almost underrated for his age, and has quite a bit of growth potential. Admittedly, I see that point, but probably am not quite as sold on the offensive upside in comparison to some other guys. That's not a knock on Greig though, and I'd be very happy if he's the 22nd pick. There's a lot to like there.

But getting back to the Rangers, they talked about him playing a more skilled-based version of the one is his father player and probably filling out to around the same size at maturity (5'11/6'0, 195-200).

I had one person remind me that Dubinsky was 5'11, 180 and ended up playing at 6'1, 215. So there is something to be said about remembering these kids are teenagers and some would've been only 17 if the draft were held in June.

Could you happen to elaborate on what you heard/discussed with your connections? Not sure I'm following correctly. Thanks in advance!!

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

the draft simulator is great for getting your hopes up lol

If you use it right, it's a great tool to learn about more obscure prospects. I told some of my friends to do 10 random mock drafts, but making sure you mever draft the same player twice. After finishing a mock, you research the 7-ish players you drafted.

 

[eco's bones]

Better skated IMO. Not as cerebral.

Some question as to whether he plays a pro style game, or whether he just feasts on weaker competition.

The league is probably what's hurting him the most. If he plays for the US program, I can't see him not being in the same conversations as a guy like Peterson.

Peterson is kind of interesting to me. The vibe I get is he's got the tools but not the toolbox. Also big and physical.

Biondi--another guy from Hermantown (Neal Pionk) going to the U. of Minnesota-Duluth. We signed Justin Richards over the summer out of that school and there was a Brenden Kotyk who played for Hartford a couple/three years back(?) on an AHL deal.

 

[eco's bones]

I'm not so keen on Yannick's analyses. He tends to over hype the good and bad in some players. For example Lundell being too slow, yet praises a guy like Quinn for the amount of offense he puts up. Clearly missing context between the two. He, also, mentions he watches clips of plays and does his audio analysis over the said highlight. Will actually documents the in-game video and catches each individual shift per prospect and continues to watch that prospect over a week or so of games.

I feel people get lost in that difference. Players can have bad games, but like Coach Quinn mentions, it's about the amount of bad games you have that need to be minimized. That's where I favor a channel like Will's who has consistently saw the good and bad in a player's performance and shows a lot more evidence to back that up. Yannick goes a little overboard with his analyses over a small amount watched. You could, also, tell in his latest ranking videos who he favors over who based on highlights (and doesn't even consider a goalie as good as Askarov in there, which I find insulting TBH).

Not to bash on the guy, he shows the "want" to provide good info on draft eligible prospects. But if I'm someone who wants to gain insight on prospects and only have a platform like Youtube to view, I would highly recommend going the shift-by-shift route and just watch players play. That's truly the only way one could base their own projections on. With that said, I have the luxury of being able to watch a ton of hockey via a friend so I don't usually watch highlight videos to study. In doing that, I can tell who really is doing their homework and channels like Scouching, CrossBar Hockey and our very own @Steve Kournianos do a great job with that.

More often than not though they tend to agree on players even if their critiques or ways of critiquing are different and I certainly don't want just to see a bunch of highlight clips. Will certainly is better with the technical stuff of breaking down a player's game and on areas of improvement that can be made. The one critique I'd send his way is his grading system sometimes is a bit confusing. Yannick wins on accent and he had the best Lafreniere video.

 

[Lion Hound]

Fine, I'll just share my private newsletter as a gesture of goodwill (and the result of 10 bottles of wine) with the board:

Roster

• No real concrete movement with ADA at this time. The Rangers are leaning toward a two-year deal to buy time until Lundkvist can come over and challenge. There is interest in ADA around the league should he become available. Rangers don’t plan to shop him, but he’s not an automatic “no.”
• Trepidation about trading Buch because the right wing has a lot of question marks right now. Like ADA, if he’s moved it is expected to be for an NHL roster player, not for a package of futures.
• Strome is definitely someone who will be shopped as the Rangers gauge his value around the league.
• Rangers still very interested in Lindholm and think he’d do just fine as a center. Not sure if ADA + Buch for Lindholm and Hanifin is an option. Think the talent is a good match, but feel the deal may be “too big” for both teams at this point.
• Belief is that Strome, ADA and Buch is the most likely order if players were to be moved.
• No desire to move a RHD to the left side for a prolonged period of time.
• Hesitation to move Smith based on his utility player status. Think the Rangers would prefer to hold onto him when the season begins.
• Georgiev will definitely be a topic of conversation with other teams in the coming weeks. Rangers asking price is a bottom six forward or a moderately high second round pick. Thinks Chicago, Edmonton, Nashville and Toronto are all potential suitors.
• Belief is Lundqvist’s time in NY is over: 50/50 on him retiring.
• Vince Dunn very much on the Rangers radar as a potential partner for Trouba.
• Jonas Brodin is another name that has come up multiple times as being a player of interest.
• Domi not really a player of interest at this time. Dylan Strome not really a player of interest at this time.
• Cirelli would be of interest to the Rangers, though they think he stays in Tampa.

Prospects/Young Players

• Andersson will be shopped and there’s decent interest in him around the league. Belief is that he’s probably done as a Ranger. Just a matter of finding the right deal.
• Preference is not to move Lemieux at this time, but he’s not an automatic no either. Ditto for Howden.
• Hajek likely to be a piece the Rangers are willing to part with to make an upgrade.
• Front office is very high on Barron and Reunanen and expect both to make serious challenges for the team.

Draft

• A few nibbles on the top pick. LA and Ottawa definitely pinged them, but it doesn’t appear there was any serious conversation. Think Buffalo is a dark horse to make a bold offer. I’ll adjust the odds of the Rangers getting blown away by an offer to the lower end of my original statement - 10 percent.
• Not actively looking to add a second round pick, but there are several potential deals that could land them one (Georgiev, Strome, etc.)
• Rangers really love Sanderson and Lundell, but doesn’t think either will be in range to trade for. Both were the top candidates for the Rangers original draft position.
• Byfield is second on their list over Stutzle. Holtz is fourth on the Rangers list.
• I’m fairly confident their top 10 is Lafreniere, Byfield, Stutzle, Holtz, Sanderson, Lundell, Drysdale, Rossi, Perfetti and Raymond.
• Players they really like – Guhle, Holloway, Lapierre, Greig, Khusnutdinov and Amirov.
• Seth Jarvis is liked, though not seen as being on the board or close to a move-up scenario. They love the energy and the approach and think it will be carry him to a top six role in the NHL --- though maybe not in the express lane.
• Mercer is liked but the group I was with had differing opinions on his offensive upside. Some think he’s a very good third line player in the Holloway and Greig mold. Some see him as a top six option. The offensive decline post-trade is potentially going to bite him in the ass. Like Holloway, there’s an intrigue about having him at center.
• Holloway is the mystery box for a lot of teams. General belief is that most teams will want to send him to the WHL (even if COVID didn’t happen). Also concern that he’s an older birthday who will only get one WHL season before having to be an over-ager. “You have to be sure you can get him on the right path next year, and that he’ll be ready for the AHL the following year.” Someone floated the idea that Europe might actually be a good option for him.
• A lot of high praise for Greig. Makes me suspect that his ranking on McKenzie’s list might have owed at least a little to the Rangers saying “We would take this guy at 24.” They think he’s a guy that would’ve fit right into the last Rangers era, but would have the benefit of being surrounded by legit elite-level talent.
• Guhle is a kid they like a lot and think his upside is right up there with Drysdale and Sanderson. “He’s not as put together as those two right now though.” I think he was a dark horse candidate for the Rangers original pick if Lundell and Sanderson weren’t on the board.
• Love the skill level and upside of Lapierre. The injuries are a concern for the team, but not necessarily a deal breaker. I got the impression he would be a serious consideration if he was on the board at 22. Feeling is he might not slide past Montreal or Ottawa.
• Amirov is seen as a steady, two-way player whose offensive upside is severely underrated. They feel like he’s a kid winning teams have and the type who can you pair with just about anyone on your roster. He’s probably at least 2-3 years off from the NHL, but they think he can be a kid who comes in a number of different roles.
• Khusnutdinov is a kid who will definitely be under consideration at 22, especially depending on how the board breaks. Size not a huge concern for the Rangers, but there is some question as to whether the hands will match the feet and the energy at the higher levels. That factor could be the difference between a second line forward and more of a third line energy guy. He’s another one is a bit of a mystery box for teams.
• I got the impression that Bourque and Mysak, though liked, aren’t quite on the same level as other names for the Rangers.
• Perrault and Gunler are divisive. Talent is liked, the personalities have sparked debate.
• Group was somewhat divided on the interest level in Peterson and Cuylle. Overall a lukewarm reaction to Peterson, but more open to Cuylle.
• Blake Biondi is a kid who has generated interest and a longer look within the Rangers organization.

EDGE this is fantastic insight.

Strome family has quite a few ties to Long Island hockey. Those ties have leaked a bit that Ryan Strome is "Going where the money is". This will be his big contract and wherever that my be is where he and hos agent will take him. I think the NYR org knows this and it makes a lot of sense that he is the guy "most likely" to be moved

Very early on in the draft thread Sanderson's name came up. At the time he was still ranked late first round. He skyrocketed. Looking at him and how he played to me he screamed NYR pick if they were in the teens with the original pick. I thought he was the guy. He wouldn't be my first choice if they were selecting in the 10-15 range, but i do like the player.

I like Holtz, and i think he one of the dark horses in this draft class that has been overshadowed by some of the other players.

Greig is normally the kind of player that I would have super high on my list. I love the NA style of hockey. By the reports you would think he would fit very well in a team that tries to play a "Relentless" style of play. There's some that feel he is top 15, and has even been compared to Brad Marchand. I don't see that with Greig. I think were looking at a guy who has some overrated skills that will have trouble translating into a top 6 player. I do think his skating, his head for the game and his fearless style of play gives him a one up over some of the draft eligibles. I think were looking at a guy people would love to have in their bottom six. A fantastic puck pursuit guy, and a fantastic energy guy that can draw penalties and rev a crowd up. If there ever is a crowd again. I like him, but there are others i would prefer with the Carolina pick. Weird for me to say, as year after year draft after draft guys like Greig are my top picks in the middle of the first round. Nick Suzuki's, the Joel Farabee's, the Peyton Krebs etc.

With the first pick, i want to see #11. With the 2nd First pick I want to see #22. Marat Khusnutdinov with certainty is the player i am hoping for with the Carolina pick. It's weird alot of places project him as a bottom six energy guy. I don't see that at all. I think were looking at a player who has every tool needed and the head to go with it to be a dangerous top 6 player...ESPECIALLY if he has the right players surrounding him. I like the idea of him in the NYR prospect pool. He's a Left handed Center, who also plays Left wall. He got blasted in some of the draft guides. Blackbook being one. When asked about him, one scout said "Who the F#@^ is that?" Another one called him "a complete no show" I really think he is going to make some people say..."How the hell did we pass on this kid?"



I like the player so much if the Rangers swing a deal to get into the top 10-15 Range and he was the pick I would still jump up and spill my popcorn and beer. He's my guy with the Carolina pick.

If they do get into the second round I would love to see Cuylle. Looking at the clubs in the playoffs. They all have guys that can play a heavy game. I think Cuylle more then any of the tough guys that can play in this years draft has the best overall tools to stick.

 

[Savant]

Peterson is kind of interesting to me. The vibe I get is he's got the tools but not the toolbox. Also big and physical.

Biondi--another guy from Hermantown (Neal Pionk) going to the U. of Minnesota-Duluth. We signed Justin Richards over the summer out of that school and there was a Brenden Kotyk who played for Hartford a couple/three years back(?) on an AHL deal.

I like Peterson, but I think if I have to pick one, I might rather go Finley.

 

[eco's bones]

I like Peterson, but I think if I have to pick one, I might rather go Finley.

I look at either of them as potentially big bodied bottom 6 forwards. Finley's the bigger bodied--well he's massive. Peterson is supposedly a really good skater and probably has higher upside if he can get that toolbox put together. Personally I'd be happy with either--Peterson with either our second 3rd rounder which should be in the 90's or the 4th or Finley with the 4th rounder. If someone better is there with either of those picks and they're still available in the 5th even better.

 

[Savant]

I look at either of them as potentially big bodied bottom 6 forwards. Finley's the bigger bodied--well he's massive. Peterson is supposedly a really good skater and probably has higher upside if he can get that toolbox put together. Personally I'd be happy with either--Peterson with either our second 3rd rounder which should be in the 90's or the 4th or Finley with the 4th rounder. If someone better is there with either of those picks and they're still available in the 5th even better.

I mean I like both. I don’t think that top six center is coming this year. BUT if we can take two tall players that me know can stick at that position (even if bottom six) and one of those guys pans out, I am all for it. I think the big mistake this year is to try and force a guy at 2C

 

[eco's bones]

I mean I like both. I don’t think that top six center is coming this year. BUT if we can take two tall players that me know can stick at that position (even if bottom six) and one of those guys pans out, I am all for it. I think the big mistake this year is to try and force a guy at 2C

I agree with that. I also think Panarin as 2LW can easily carry someone like Strome or Chytil if Strome leaves. We have enough center options that at least in the future we'll sort out the bottom lines. The Richards signing was a good one....perhaps Barron. Part of making the Rangers a harder team to play against is making them physically more imposing. We've got the talent thing pretty much wrapped up between Panarin, Zibanejad, Kakko, Lafreniere, Fox, DeAngelo (if he stays and if not Lundkvist), Shesterkin. We don't really have that many guys who play a consistent physical game--Trouba, Lemieux--sometimes Smith or Kreider and it's not enough and a lot of teams have 6'5 and above players they give regular ice time too.

 

[Leetch3]

If you use it right, it's a great tool to learn about more obscure prospects. I told some of my friends to do 10 random mock drafts, but making sure you mever draft the same player twice. After finishing a mock, you research the 7-ish players you drafted.

I was thinking more cause their ratings are off and guys that might now sneak into the late first are available in the 3rd in the sim...but that's a solid idea.

you can speed up the process too by 'trading down' to get more picks to increase the number of names outside of the top names that we are already familiar with...increasing the randomness factor also gives you some whack options that could result in more names to pick from.

 

[Leetch3]

another great name for the mid-rounds Daemon Hunt

 

[UnSandvich]

With regards to the draftsim, there's an option to switch the rankings from their list to McKenzie's. Top right when you're on the "set options" page

 

[Mac n Gs]

I don't think he'd be our pick, but what are everyone's thoughts on Brendan Brisson?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I don't think he'd be our pick, but what are everyone's thoughts on Brendan Brisson?

Definitely in the conversation in that range. He is committed to Michigan, same school as Ciccolini. Not that that would be a difference maker but it would be fun to have 2 prospects play for the same college.

I think there are better prospects available at 22

 

[Thirty One]

Shocking allegations about Ridley Greig on Craig Button's podcast.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Shocking allegations about Ridley Greig on Craig Button's podcast.

So, I had to look it up. It says "Ridly Greig = Nazim Kadri". This could have been avoided if they knew how to spell Kadri's first name

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Shocking allegations about Ridley Greig on Craig Button's podcast.

That thumbnail Craig's gotten for himself is some real 'graphic design is my passion' type shit

 

[eco's bones]

another great name for the mid-rounds Daemon Hunt

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he went in the mid to late 2nd or the 3rd. I think he's going to be a player.

 

[broadwayblue]

Adam Fox (23) days until Lafreniere.

 

[CaptTennille]

I don't think he'd be our pick, but what are everyone's thoughts on Brendan Brisson?

He's a hard one to gauge. I'm a fan of the hockey IQ and playmaking skills but he needs to learn to play with more pace and work on his first three steps(the edgework is pretty good though).

I take his USHL production this season with a grain of salt, but he was very good at the WJAC in December and is very decisive with his decision making which I think bodes well for his development. Having Pat Brisson as your father can't hurt in terms of pairing you with the right skills coaches and player development people either.

His one timer from the right circle is NASTY though and could potentially help him stick in a lineup even if the rest of his tools can't get him there.

 

[Joey Bones]

I don't think he'd be our pick, but what are everyone's thoughts on Brendan Brisson?

Yeah, I like him. He works hard on both ends of the ice, but he is a great passer with a good, quick snapshot. His first few steps are good, but could lengthen his stride more. Not hard to fix as long as he bulks up the lower body and grows into his body. Also, not skating hunched down will help, but he doesn't have an issue with that.

 

[Leetch3]

not sure they will be around in the 3rd when we pick again since we don't have any 2nds but any thoughts on:

Luke Tuch
Will Cuylle
Dylan Peterson
Daniel Torgersson

 

[RangersFan1994]

not sure they will be around in the 3rd when we pick again since we don't have any 2nds but any thoughts on:

Luke Tuch
Will Cuylle
Dylan Peterson
Daniel Torgersson

Tuch is the brother of Alex Tuch. maybe he goes earlier because of that