Speculation: 2020-21 News/Rumors/Roster Thread Part II

[kingsfan28]

We have a player kind of like him in Kaliyev, minus a few inches. Here's Scott Wheeler's take on Laine:

Wheeler’s take: If Madden is singular, I don’t know what that makes Kaliyev. A unicorn, maybe? There isn’t any active NHLer whose skill as a shooter resembles Kaliyev’s. If there is, they’re in the superstar echelon and I’m not going to put that on Kaliyev. His shot is better than any second-line forward in the league today. So you can imagine it’s hard to find a comparable, particularly the low-end ones. If I’m being completely honest, Laine is the only player who resembles Kaliyev. Laine has the shot, the one that just blows by goalies, and the one-timer that does too. Laine has the spotty defensive play when he doesn’t have the puck. Laine isn’t the fastest player in the world. It’s not a crazy comparison, even though Laine has a couple inches on Kaliyev. That Laine is the only player in the league with parallels really speaks to the problem some evaluators have had in projecting Kaliyev.

Interesting take. Just a hunch, but I imagine the Kings structure and development will be better than what Laine got in Lumbus. I trust our guys enough to know they won't put up with some Prima Donna player and make sure he's brought up right.

 

[King'sPawn]

Interesting take. Just a hunch, but I imagine the Kings structure and development will be better than what Laine got in Lumbus. I trust our guys enough to know they won't put up with some Prima Donna player and make sure he's brought up right.

Yeah, it's like Columbus didn't contribute to his development at all

 

[Token]

The Legendary Pronman updates his rankings.

These be the young players org rankings not the prospect rankings.

TLDR

Kings go from 13th to 5th spot.

Paywall NHL Org Rankings 2.0: Pronman's post-draft rating of every team's young talent

Snippet:

1. Quinton Byfield, C
2. Samuel Fagemo, LW
3. Arthur Kaliyev, RW
4. Alex Turcotte, C
5. Gabriel Vilardi, C
6. Tobias Bjornfot, D
7. Rasmus Kupari, C
8. Tyler Madden, C
9. Blake Lizotte, C
10. Akil Thomas, C
11. Kasper Simontaival, RW
12. Helge Grans, D
13. Jaret Anderson-Dolan, C
14. Martin Chromiak, RW
15. Jordan Spence, D (upgraded to legit NHL prospect)

 

[kings11]

Anthony Duclair anyone??

 

[Docgonzo]

Yeah, it's like Columbus didn't contribute to his development at all

Dang mean Columbus, why aren’t they helping develop Laine!!!

Anthony Duclair anyone??

I’d gladly take Duclair or Kahun for like 3mil or less for 2 years.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Duclair is interesting. 5 years, 5 teams. Re getting traded, "He was part of the package due to Blue Jackets’ head coach John Tortorella getting fed up with him, saying that he has “bad listening skills”, gone “off the rails”, even going as far as saying “I don’t think he knows how to play”." I'm not sure he's the right guy for a one-off signing, though part of me wonders if the development team could work wonders with his raw talent if his head is in the right place. He is kind of brain dead out there though, needs to really play a simple game.

 

[jfont]

I'd rather take a shot at Hamonic

 

[tny760]

Duclair is interesting. 5 years, 5 teams. Re getting traded, "He was part of the package due to Blue Jackets’ head coach John Tortorella getting fed up with him, saying that he has “bad listening skills”, gone “off the rails”, even going as far as saying “I don’t think he knows how to play”." I'm not sure he's the right guy for a one-off signing, though part of me wonders if the development team could work wonders with his raw talent if his head is in the right place. He is kind of brain dead out there though, needs to really play a simple game.

yeah i really want to like the guy but he seems, at a baseline, to be incredibly selfish in all ways. either that or he's got the wrong people in his ears.. he's clearly a good goalscorer and i can't deny the ability, but i'm not sure there's place for those attitude/agent problems on the kings right now

maybe as the "gaborik" kind of piece? we just don't need that right now

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

yeah i really want to like the guy but he seems, at a baseline, to be incredibly selfish in all ways. either that or he's got the wrong people in his ears.. he's clearly a good goalscorer and i can't deny the ability, but i'm not sure there's place for those attitude/agent problems on the kings right now

maybe as the "gaborik" kind of piece? we just don't need that right now

One of those things where we'd never be privy to what's up but he's been on good and bad teams and hasn't stuck. If I were a GM I'd be inviting him out to spend the day with him (and his agent?) to get a vibe before doing anything at all. But you would think, mid 20s, that he'd either mature/get his head together immediately or he's off to Europe. NHL doesn't suffer egos for middle sixers.

 

[kingsboy11]

Duclair certainly has talent and I'm totally here for him completely tearing it up after he left Lumbus to stick it to Torts. That being said it is a concern to be on that many different teams so early on in his career. I think if we didn't have as many forward prospects as we do I'd consider it, but I think at this stage it isn't necessary.

 

[tny760]

yeah that's kinda what it boils down to, there's a reason he's been on so many teams and left them all on bad terms

i'm not here to be an NHL exec apologist cause most of them are scum but there's gotta be something wrong with him too at this point

 

[Stimpythecat]

With all the prospects the team has coming into ontario and the kings, do we really want to take coaching time away from them?

It sounds like Duclair would need extra time from the coaches, and that would be in short supply with all the prospects coming up. If the kings system was bare like it was a couple seasons ago, I could see taking a flier on him but not now.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

With all the prospects the team has coming into ontario and the kings, do we really want to take coaching time away from them?

It sounds like Duclair would need extra time from the coaches, and that would be in short supply with all the prospects coming up. If the kings system was bare like it was a couple seasons ago, I could see taking a flier on him but not now.

Pretty much agree, I'm just verbally kicking the tires. What are you looking for in a team? Because here's what we're looking for in you. Not a fit? No hard feelings.

 

[kilowatt]

Lisa Dillman released her updated post-draft roster projections with some pretty interesting quotes.

Quinton Byfield could make big impact: Kings roster projection 2.0

Alex Iafallo - Anze Kopitar - Dustin Brown
Adrian Kempe - Gabriel Vilardi - Martin Frk
Samuel Fagemo - Blake Lizotte - Jeff Carter
Jaret Anderson-Dolan - Lias Andersson - Austin Wagner

Olli Maatta - Drew Doughty
Tobias Bjornfot - Matt Roy
Mikey Anderson - Sean Walker

Jonathan Quick
Cal Petersen

One interesting note is this quote:

The feeling is Fagemo would have to have a subpar training camp, not to crack the lineup.

And also:

The biggest change here was the addition of Andersson, who is currently playing in Sweden with HV71 in the SHL. It might be a good place for the entire season, but Blake said in a text message to The Athletic that the hope is to get Andersson, who was the seventh pick in 2017, in town for training camp.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I think it's kind of wild that everybody assumes multiple rookies will beat out Amadio for a spot given that Amadio played in 68 of 70 games last year, played top 10 ES minutes (overall not per game) and was defensively responsible. I know he's unpopular among some fans because he doesn't put up numbers but to suggest that he's a bubble player who can be easily replaced seems optimistic. Plus he's not that much older than the "young kids" that are supposed to need more time to play. Amadio WAS a young kid who carved out a role for himself in the NHL.

Not saying it can't happen... just amused that so many people think it'll be easy.

 

[kilowatt]

I think it's kind of wild that everybody assumes multiple rookies will beat out Amadio for a spot given that Amadio played in 68 of 70 games last year, played top 10 ES minutes (overall not per game) and was defensively responsible. I know he's unpopular among some fans because he doesn't put up numbers but to suggest that he's a bubble player who can be easily replaced seems optimistic. Plus he's not that much older than the "young kids" that are supposed to need more time to play. Amadio WAS a young kid who carved out a role for himself in the NHL.

Not saying it can't happen... just amused that so many people think it'll be easy.

I'm admittedly down on Amadio, and he might be a great guy off the ice, but unless he can find an extra gear I just don't see him being a roster player post-expansion. Next season, maybe, but after that? Is he going to somehow beat out Byfield, Turcotte, Kupari, Anderson-Dolan, Thomas, Lizotte, Madden, and Andersson? I don't see it.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm admittedly down on Amadio, and he might be a great guy off the ice, but unless he can find an extra gear I just don't see him being a roster player post-expansion. Next season, maybe, but after that? Is he going to somehow beat out Byfield, Turcotte, Kupari, Anderson-Dolan, Thomas, Lizotte, Madden, and Andersson? I don't see it.

Hate him as much as people do, he was on pace for 10 goals and 25 points with stellar metrics the previous year. He dipped last year, but that's the bar for all the new guys to beat--be stout defensively and contribute at least modestly. Those are in the neighborhood of Austin Wagner production numbers and the forum is insanely high on Wagner and insanely low on Amadio.

I agree that he may not be a long-termer--i mean, look at that list of names coming up--but if you can't contribute that much, what's the rush?

Disclaimer is if Amadio comes in and falls flat on his face like he did last year he's toast, it's his spot to lose imo but the rope can't be that long.

 

[Lt Dan]

I think it's kind of wild that everybody assumes multiple rookies will beat out Amadio for a spot given that Amadio played in 68 of 70 games last year, played top 10 ES minutes (overall not per game) and was defensively responsible. I know he's unpopular among some fans because he doesn't put up numbers but to suggest that he's a bubble player who can be easily replaced seems optimistic. Plus he's not that much older than the "young kids" that are supposed to need more time to play. Amadio WAS a young kid who carved out a role for himself in the NHL.

Not saying it can't happen... just amused that so many people think it'll be easy.

Amadio is another Brad "The Fury" Chartrand, Brad Richardson, Jon Sim, Jeff Giuliano, John Tripp. Each are not good enough to play in the role he was playing because no one was good enough on the team to push him down.
I don't know how many rookies will make the jump this time , but Amadio's days are numbered IMO. Like Peter Harrold, no one will shed a tear when he is off the roster

Iafallo is like Derek Armstrong to me, He has a place on the team but is playing a bigger role on a higher line than he should because no one is there to push him down.

 

[Lt Dan]

Hate him as much as people do, he was on pace for 10 goals and 25 points with stellar metrics the previous year. He dipped last year, but that's the bar for all the new guys to beat--be stout defensively and contribute at least modestly. Those are in the neighborhood of Austin Wagner production numbers and the forum is insanely high on Wagner and insanely low on Amadio.

In our defense who doesn't love seeing an orange streak fly down the ice and shoot the puck right in to the goalie's ribs ten times a game?

If that ginger ever gets a soul, watch the f*** out!!

 

[kilowatt]

Hate him as much as people do, he was on pace for 10 goals and 25 points with stellar metrics the previous year. He dipped last year, but that's the bar for all the new guys to beat--be stout defensively and contribute at least modestly. Those are in the neighborhood of Austin Wagner production numbers and the forum is insanely high on Wagner and insanely low on Amadio.

I agree that he may not be a long-termer--i mean, look at that list of names coming up--but if you can't contribute that much, what's the rush?

Disclaimer is if Amadio comes in and falls flat on his face like he did last year he's toast, it's his spot to lose imo but the rope can't be that long.

The difference between Wagner and Amadio is that Wagner might be the fastest player in the league. He has game-breaking speed that other teams have to account for, plus he's got a bit of a mean streak. Amadio is just milquetoast. He's passive. He's pretty good at being sneaky through the neutral zone, but Amadio has just as many defensive lapses as Wagner.

It's neither here nor there, though. Even Wagner likely doesn't have a spot long-term. I'm not sure who Seattle will select, but there's at least a non-zero chance it's Wagner. I'd put money on one of Amadio or Wagner not being on the roster in 2021-22.

 

[regulate]

I think it's kind of wild that everybody assumes multiple rookies will beat out Amadio for a spot given that Amadio played in 68 of 70 games last year, played top 10 ES minutes (overall not per game) and was defensively responsible. I know he's unpopular among some fans because he doesn't put up numbers but to suggest that he's a bubble player who can be easily replaced seems optimistic. Plus he's not that much older than the "young kids" that are supposed to need more time to play. Amadio WAS a young kid who carved out a role for himself in the NHL.

Not saying it can't happen... just amused that so many people think it'll be easy.

This is a solid take. We'd all like his skating to be better (which would help him a lot defensively), his face-offs skills are steadily improving, and if he had consistent linemates that had even a bit of skill, he would be productive. If he was such an unskilled player, he wouldn't be on the 2nd PP unit as the 4C. The Kings like this player a lot more than most internet fan boards. I agree he needs to be better and more consistent, and yes, I'm a fan of his game because he not only has good vision and is strong on the puck, but what's not noticed is the dozens of touches he gets on the puck defensively to disrupt plays, especially along the boards, and you can bet the coaches see that. The thought that the Kings will waive him to go to ONT is extremely unlikely. If that happens, you can take my post to the woodshed and give it the deserved beating, but I'll bet you I'm right. Luff is 10X more on the bubble than Amadio. Chances are the Kings will put the JAD's and Fagemo's of the world in ONT to play full-time, unless they dominate camp and earn a starting spot every night, not a roster spot to sit on the pine. These 21 and under players (except Anderson and Vilardi who should make the roster) will all be pushing for the 21-22 season, and many will get a call up during the season. We are all excited for the shiny new pennies, but Blake will utilize his assets and maximize his roster management this year. All bets are off starting in 21-22.

 

[crassbonanza]

If I were a GM I'd be inviting him out to spend the day with him (and his agent?)

Well, the GM could just invite him because Duclair is representing himself this free agency.

 

[regulate]

The Legendary Pronman updates his rankings.

These be the young players org rankings not the prospect rankings.

TLDR

Kings go from 13th to 5th spot.

Paywall NHL Org Rankings 2.0: Pronman's post-draft rating of every team's young talent

Snippet:

1. Quinton Byfield, C
2. Samuel Fagemo, LW
3. Arthur Kaliyev, RW
4. Alex Turcotte, C
5. Gabriel Vilardi, C
6. Tobias Bjornfot, D
7. Rasmus Kupari, C
8. Tyler Madden, C
9. Blake Lizotte, C
10. Akil Thomas, C
11. Kasper Simontaival, RW
12. Helge Grans, D
13. Jaret Anderson-Dolan, C
14. Martin Chromiak, RW
15. Jordan Spence, D (upgraded to legit NHL prospect)

The Legend has been shrinking in my eyes lately. This list without Anderson, Andersson and Clague, all who have a very good shot to open the season on the NHL roster yet cannot crack his top 15 as the team's top young talent (he did not have a max number of players per team) yet met his criteria to be included, is very short-sided IMO. Hults is also an oversight it would seem. I'm not saying everyone of these players don't have a legit shot at playing in the NHL, it's a sweet list, but there is a lot of recency bias here. And don't get me started on Fagemo ranked #2.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The difference between Wagner and Amadio is that Wagner might be the fastest player in the league. He has game-breaking speed that other teams have to account for, plus he's got a bit of a mean streak. Amadio is just milquetoast. He's passive. He's pretty good at being sneaky through the neutral zone, but Amadio has just as many defensive lapses as Wagner.

It's neither here nor there, though. Even Wagner likely doesn't have a spot long-term. I'm not sure who Seattle will select, but there's at least a non-zero chance it's Wagner. I'd put money on one of Amadio or Wagner not being on the roster in 2021-22.

I guess that's my point, I'm not trying to sound insulting, but let's not mistake flash for effectiveness. Yeah Wagner's speed in and of itself is a huge weapon and an element we had been lacking. I do think he has more upside so I'm not saying it's apples-to-apples. Amadio is simply Nick Shore 2.0 with maybe-yet-upside which of course infuriates people around here. Yet Nick Shore is still bouncing around the league--it's not that several organizations are stupid, it's that boring but effective and cheap players have a role.

If a prospect can't put up more than 30 points AND be effective in all zones without the puck, then Amadio has their spot.

 

[Token]

The Legend has been shrinking in my eyes lately. This list without Anderson, Andersson and Clague, all who have a very good shot to open the season on the NHL roster yet cannot crack his top 15 as the team's top young talent (he did not have a max number of players per team) yet met his criteria to be included, is very short-sided IMO. Hults is also an oversight it would seem. I'm not saying everyone of these players don't have a legit shot at playing in the NHL, it's a sweet list, but there is a lot of recency bias here. And don't get me started on Fagemo ranked #2.

Did my dry humor not plaster that “legendary”?



Wheeler has surpassed Pronman a while ago in my book, as it pertains to the Athletic staffers.

At this point he is one of the dime a dozen guys doing prospects.