Salary Cap: 2020-21 Lightning Roster Discussion | Part 2

[BoltzManConstant]

I do not think you get Cirelli and Cernak that cheap but thats just a wait and see thing what those guys get. And you point out the issue with the covid restrictions and only at 19 if your scenerio works out. And there are a lot of assumptions there. First that JBB has a home for Killorn and Johnson then another home for Pauquette or Coburn or both replacing them with more elc's or minimum salary players and assuming those players are all not NHL busts. Even 4th liners need some skills. Then you have to consider is this good for the team long term. As fans we can support about anything but the front office has to consider long term. Two key years are coming 22-23 and 23-24 offseasons when Point Sergi, Cernak, Cirelli will all need contracts and in that period only Palat falls off. Is that the year we close the window? Perhaps Stammer retires a year early???

The thing is right now IF Bettman gets his way and the Players cave with concessions camp will start in two weeks. If Johnson and Killorn are to be traded this week is really the last window. Most teams have already closed the door on adding players before camp starts and there are some pretty good UFA's still out there that can and will be added, league cap space is tight and movement clauses restrict what JBB can do. The popular belief is that Yzer will be the outlet for relief. Well its not been long ago he put this team together, why would we think that he would make these trades if it did not benefit the Wings whose rebuild does not fit Killorns timeline for sure and he wants just one year of Johnson when his team is finished??? Or hes doing it out of the goodness of his heart yeah thats it, well we know better than this as well.

There are basically three options.

1) Trade TJ and Killer (and prob Paquette) and do what I described.

2) You move Killer but not TJ and trade away the rights to Cirelli.

3) Stammer goes on IR and you don't trade anyone (maybe Paquette or Killer, to give some breathing room).

None of these are great, but it is what it is. You can't wish it away. And any of those approaches leaves us with a team capable of taking another Cup... and probably the consensus favorite to do so.

Sooner is better, but there's no real reason to rush. You could get this settled as late as the day before the season starts, and the timing will still have no material effect on our chances of winning the Cup.

 

[Felonious Python]

There are basically three options.

1) Trade TJ and Killer (and prob Paquette) and do what I described.

2) You move Killer but not TJ and trade away the rights to Cirelli.

3) Stammer goes on IR and you don't trade anyone (maybe Paquette or Killer, to give some breathing room).

None of these are great, but it is what it is. You can't wish it away. And any of those approaches leaves us with a team capable of taking another Cup... and probably the consensus favorite to do so.

Sooner is better, but there's no real reason to rush. You could get this settled as late as the day before the season starts, and the timing will still have no material effect on our chances of winning the Cup.

Option 4: economic miracle

 

[Todd1a]

Man too bad we have no money I’d love to trade for Jonathan Marchessault!

 

[DFC]

With all these rumors about johnson for Zetterberg, has anyone mentioned whether or not johnson would waive for Detroit?

 

[Todd1a]

With all these rumors about johnson for Zetterberg, has anyone mentioned whether or not johnson would waive for Detroit?

I don’t see johnson or Killorn waiving for Detroit! Killorn has a list he provided and I’m sure the redwings aren’t on it

 

[These Are The Days]

With all these rumors about johnson for Zetterberg, has anyone mentioned whether or not johnson would waive for Detroit?

Not that I can see. I don't think it's likely either. And plus look at the damn thread. One guy wants Johnson, Killorn, 1st, prospect just to take back Z's LTIR contract. f*** that noise. Buying Johnson out, trading Paquette and seeing what our options are with Killorn to a team like Nashville or LA is 1000 times more preferable. The only reason the Lightning are in such a crappy position is due to COVID. On that note, we're gonna be just fine and HF is just over-exaggerating again.


If that division LeBrun mentioned is true I don't see how our odds of a playoff berth aren't 90%+ barring injuries

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Not that I can see. I don't think it's likely either. And plus look at the damn thread. One guy wants Johnson, Killorn, 1st, prospect just to take back Z's LTIR contract. f*** that noise. Buying Johnson out, trading Paquette and seeing what our options are with Killorn to a team like Nashville or LA is 1000 times more preferable. The only reason the Lightning are in such a crappy position is due to COVID. On that note, we're gonna be just fine and HF is just over-exaggerating again.


If that division LeBrun mentioned is true I don't see how our odds of a playoff berth aren't 90%+ barring injuries

Buying out Johnson doesn't save us anything. Like a million I think for the first year.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

With all these rumors about johnson for Zetterberg, has anyone mentioned whether or not johnson would waive for Detroit?

He wrote that letter or something. Saying how he holds Yzerman in high esteem. I can see TJ waiving for Detroit, just to play under Yzerman again.

 

[These Are The Days]

Buying out Johnson doesn't save us anything. Like a million I think for the first year.

The cap hit would be $2.7 million. It's a win in my book












Unless----- the charts LIE?

 

[HoseEmDown]

The buyout window is closed so you can stop with the talk of that being a possibility.

As for Killorn I think he may not waive to Detroit to play in Detroit but I think Detroit would just be the middle man in a trade. They can get him from us for say a 4th and then turn around and flip him with retention for a 2nd+ if not more.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

The cap hit would be $2.7 million. It's a win in my book












Unless----- the charts LIE?

Oh, I remember seeing it was like 4M cap hit for the first year. Must have not rolled over the current year.

 

[These Are The Days]

The buyout window is closed so you can stop with the talk of that being a possibility.

Aw shit I forgot about that

 

[Byrddog]

The buyout window is closed so you can stop with the talk of that being a possibility.

As for Killorn I think he may not waive to Detroit to play in Detroit but I think Detroit would just be the middle man in a trade. They can get him from us for say a 4th and then turn around and flip him with retention for a 2nd+ if not more.

That is going out there pretty far. Read yesterday there are 11 teams over the cap right now all looking to move cap there are what 5 or 6 teams that are realistically looking to add to there roster with no cap concerns where they need to move cap out to take salary. Then there are those pesky UFA's still left out there looking for a job. Looks to me like teams are just sitting waiting for the UFA's to blink and sign for less money or risk missing part or a whole season otherwise there would be some trades right!!!!!!! There have been no noteworthy trades posted by trade tracker since the middle of Oct.

Tic Toc Tic Toc
The bump in optimism that occurred with Sergichevs signing has now been extinguished. When he signed I just knew JBB had a plan in place to move Cap out. Well that does not appear to have been the case. Of the teams over the Cap currently ours is the worst situation due to the no movement clauses and the question is where are we on the food chain for relief? The options are limited basically one month to opening day.
We can prognosticate many options to get under the cap but the closer it comes to opening day the options become less and less. The two big rumors' Nashville and Detroit are these our last hope? Probably for a deal that works out best for the Bolts. Nashville has one deal to make there preference is Hoffman, Stevie Y is in the drivers seat and will do nothing unless he wins the deal big. If this does not break by this Friday It is easy to imagine Johnson + the rights to Cirelli to Detroit and Killorn + to somewhere probably with some retention to clear enough space to sign Cernak and cover the other spots at league minimum contracts. I am not a fan of this but can not see another way out unless Hoffman does not go to Nashville who I think will then go after Killer. Worst case JBB can not move either of Killer and Johnson then it really gets stupid.

 

[Todd1a]

That is going out there pretty far. Read yesterday there are 11 teams over the cap right now all looking to move cap there are what 5 or 6 teams that are realistically looking to add to there roster with no cap concerns where they need to move cap out to take salary. Then there are those pesky UFA's still left out there looking for a job. Looks to me like teams are just sitting waiting for the UFA's to blink and sign for less money or risk missing part or a whole season otherwise there would be some trades right!!!!!!! There have been no noteworthy trades posted by trade tracker since the middle of Oct.

Tic Toc Tic Toc
The bump in optimism that occurred with Sergichevs signing has now been extinguished. When he signed I just knew JBB had a plan in place to move Cap out. Well that does not appear to have been the case. Of the teams over the Cap currently ours is the worst situation due to the no movement clauses and the question is where are we on the food chain for relief? The options are limited basically one month to opening day.
We can prognosticate many options to get under the cap but the closer it comes to opening day the options become less and less. The two big rumors' Nashville and Detroit are these our last hope? Probably for a deal that works out best for the Bolts. Nashville has one deal to make there preference is Hoffman, Stevie Y is in the drivers seat and will do nothing unless he wins the deal big. If this does not break by this Friday It is easy to imagine Johnson + the rights to Cirelli to Detroit and Killorn + to somewhere probably with some retention to clear enough space to sign Cernak and cover the other spots at league minimum contracts. I am not a fan of this but can not see another way out unless Hoffman does not go to Nashville who I think will then go after Killer. Worst case JBB can not move either of Killer and Johnson then it really gets stupid.

yep it’s gonna be impossible to sign cirell unless Brisebois finds homes for johnson and killorn soon!

 

[Leadzedder]

Wings fan chiming in... if we take Johnson and supply Z’s contract for your books I believe we are providing you with up to 11 million in cap space. What is that worth to you?

it seems like a 1 stop shopping solution for all your concerns for this year. Make the deal, sign one of your RFAs (and juggle opening day roster) to get you as close to the cap as possible. Then use the 6 million space created by Z LTIR to sign the other RFA.

it seems like a perfect scenario for your team. And very likely Yzerman would help his old team while helping his new team.

 

[Todd1a]

Let’s just get it over with!

https://thehockeywriters.com/lightning-should-consider-salary-dump-trade/

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Wings fan chiming in... if we take Johnson and supply Z’s contract for your books I believe we are providing you with up to 11 million in cap space. What is that worth to you?

it seems like a 1 stop shopping solution for all your concerns for this year. Make the deal, sign one of your RFAs (and juggle opening day roster) to get you as close to the cap as possible. Then use the 6 million space created by Z LTIR to sign the other RFA.

it seems like a perfect scenario for your team. And very likely Yzerman would help his old team while helping his new team.

It really only adds $5M in cap space, because LTIR doesn't do anything for us.

 

[Todd1a]

It really only adds $5M in cap space, because LTIR doesn't do anything for us.

we need Detroit to take johnson and Killorn to make our cap situation work

 

[Todd1a]

HockeyBuzz.com - Eklund - The To-Do List before we start the NHL season by Kevin Allen

 

[Leadzedder]

It really only adds $5M in cap space, because LTIR doesn't do anything for us.

Why not? It’s helped us lots in the past.

Maybe read up on how season opening LTIR works? Do you think the Wings would add Zetterbergs contract to the deal to avoid having to pay the 1 million that’s likely paid by insurance anyway.

anyway, look into It.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Wings fan chiming in... if we take Johnson and supply Z’s contract for your books I believe we are providing you with up to 11 million in cap space. What is that worth to you?

it seems like a 1 stop shopping solution for all your concerns for this year. Make the deal, sign one of your RFAs (and juggle opening day roster) to get you as close to the cap as possible. Then use the 6 million space created by Z LTIR to sign the other RFA.

it seems like a perfect scenario for your team. And very likely Yzerman would help his old team while helping his new team.

You make it sound like we aren't doing anything for you with a Johnson and Zetterberg trade. Sure we get a good amount of capspace doing that deal, which we need, but we are also providing you with something useful for 5M instead of it being wasted with Zetterberg on LTIR. Sure you could use the 5M Johnson makes and sign Hoffman or Granlund but you haven't so it appears they don't want to go there. You could just let Zetterbergs contract just run out this year and not take Johnson but Johnson will make you better and you will get assets in the deal. Not sure what those will be but I don't think it'll be a massive overpay, maybe 1st + lesser prospect or 2nd + better one. Either way a deal between the two isn't just you doing us a favor, you will be benefiting as well.

 

[HoseEmDown]

That is going out there pretty far. Read yesterday there are 11 teams over the cap right now all looking to move cap there are what 5 or 6 teams that are realistically looking to add to there roster with no cap concerns where they need to move cap out to take salary. Then there are those pesky UFA's still left out there looking for a job. Looks to me like teams are just sitting waiting for the UFA's to blink and sign for less money or risk missing part or a whole season otherwise there would be some trades right!!!!!!! There have been no noteworthy trades posted by trade tracker since the middle of Oct.

Tic Toc Tic Toc
The bump in optimism that occurred with Sergichevs signing has now been extinguished. When he signed I just knew JBB had a plan in place to move Cap out. Well that does not appear to have been the case. Of the teams over the Cap currently ours is the worst situation due to the no movement clauses and the question is where are we on the food chain for relief? The options are limited basically one month to opening day.
We can prognosticate many options to get under the cap but the closer it comes to opening day the options become less and less. The two big rumors' Nashville and Detroit are these our last hope? Probably for a deal that works out best for the Bolts. Nashville has one deal to make there preference is Hoffman, Stevie Y is in the drivers seat and will do nothing unless he wins the deal big. If this does not break by this Friday It is easy to imagine Johnson + the rights to Cirelli to Detroit and Killorn + to somewhere probably with some retention to clear enough space to sign Cernak and cover the other spots at league minimum contracts. I am not a fan of this but can not see another way out unless Hoffman does not go to Nashville who I think will then go after Killer. Worst case JBB can not move either of Killer and Johnson then it really gets stupid.

So you think that even trading Johnson and Killorn isn't enough open space to sign Cirelli and Cernak? The solution is to use Cirelli to dump Johnson and then still trade Killorn? What are then planning on doing with all that cap signing Cernak for 7M?

We also aren't forced to trade Johnson only and definitely not make a bad deal to do so. It's unlikely we trade them but Vasilevskiy and Point don't have any trade protections so could be moved. Sergachev can still be traded. We can ask other players if they'll waive. We are going to have to add assets to move Johnson but one of those assets won't be Cirelli.

 

[Todd1a]

So you think that even trading Johnson and Killorn isn't enough open space to sign Cirelli and Cernak? The solution is to use Cirelli to dump Johnson and then still trade Killorn? What are then planning on doing with all that cap signing Cernak for 7M?

We also aren't forced to trade Johnson only and definitely not make a bad deal to do so. It's unlikely we trade them but Vasilevskiy and Point don't have any trade protections so could be moved. Sergachev can still be traded. We can ask other players if they'll waive. We are going to have to add assets to move Johnson but one of those assets won't be Cirelli.

Nashville would probably give us a 1st for palat that would improve there team big time!

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Why not? It’s helped us lots in the past.

Maybe read up on how season opening LTIR works? Do you think the Wings would add Zetterbergs contract to the deal to avoid having to pay the 1 million that’s likely paid by insurance anyway.

anyway, look into It.

Lol, maybe you need to read into it? Zetterberg's contract won't count towards our salary cap one way or another. It doesn't magically make $6M in cap space appear out of nowhere.

The Johnson deal can be made with or without Zetterberg, the only point of adding Z is to save the Red Wings actual $.

 

[Leadzedder]

Lol, maybe you need to read into it? Zetterberg's contract won't count towards our salary cap one way or another. It doesn't magically make $6M in cap space appear out of nowhere.

The Johnson deal can be made with or without Zetterberg, the only point of adding Z is to save the Red Wings actual $.

Totally wrong dude.