2020-21 Expected Roster Talk

[RememberTheRoar]

I think it’s more that they tried to spread out scoring while keeping two players who typically play well together on the same line.

Spreading out the scoring, clearly something that’s necessary to have a competitive team. As we’re seeing with the Lightning and the Stars.

(Snark not directed at you.)

 

[TheDachKnight]

Spreading out the scoring, clearly something that’s necessary to have a competitive team. As we’re seeing with the Lightning and the Stars.

(Snark not directed at you.)

I don’t disagree but when you don’t have an amazing shutdown 3rd line, you try to form a scoring 3rd line. Or at least that’s what we had to do.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I don’t disagree but when you don’t have an amazing shutdown 3rd line, you try to form a scoring 3rd line. Or at least that’s what we had to do.

Or you throw guys who work hard together and form a third line. I wouldn’t necessarily say Tampa’s third is a great shutdown third line, it’s probably more of a scoring line. But the guys work hard.

Show me one guy on either of these Cup Final teams that either DeBrincat or Strome work harder than.

Tampa has Point, Kucherov, then a bunch of motivated Saads and Shaws. Dallas has a full lineup of guys who want to take the body, go to dirty areas, but still have skill.

DeBrincat and Strome are going to remain a problem when trying to form a competitive team unless you can figure out a way to motivate them, or can play them both with Kane so you only need to shelter one line.

 

[TheDachKnight]

Or you throw guys who work hard together and form a third line. I wouldn’t necessarily say Tampa’s third is a great shutdown third line, it’s probably more of a scoring line. But the guys work hard.

Show me one guy on either of these Cup Final teams that either DeBrincat or Strome work harder than.

Tampa has Point, Kucherov, then a bunch of motivated Saads and Shaws. Dallas has a full lineup of guys who want to take the body, go to dirty areas, but still have skill.

DeBrincat and Strome are going to remain a problem when trying to form a competitive team unless you can figure out a way to motivate them, or can play them both with Kane so you only need to shelter one line.

I don’t disagree but aside from Toews, Dach, and Saad, we don’t have a lot of those types of guys. Kampf, Carpenter, and Highmore, too but they’re all 4th liners. We made a 3rd line out of what we have. I think this should be a priority moving forward. Get guys who play well in all 3 zones and work hard. That’s why I’m ok with a Strome or DeBrincat trade if we can get a young top-6 forward who plays a better two-way game back.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I don’t disagree but aside from Toews and Saad, we don’t have a lot of those types of guys. Kampf, Carpenter, and Highmore, too but they’re all 4th liners. We made a 3rd line out of what we have. I think this should be a priority moving forward. Get guys who play well in all 3 zones and work hard. That’s why I’m ok with a Strome or DeBrincat trade if we can get a young top-6 forward who plays a better two-way game back.

A few months ago, I would’ve probably said you’re crazy. But after watching the intensity skilled guys on good teams brought these playoffs, I’d be willing to see what’s out there.

I don’t want the Hawks to just get rid of them, but I think they’re going to continue causing lineup problems unless they change how they play. I do think DeBrincat is more likely to do so, but he still has a ways to go before he’s playing like a Gourde or Tyler Johnson type. (Also, Nylander needs to learn to play an aggressive game and try to become a Palat or Kilorn type, not going to hold my breath though.)

Right now, these two are guys who put up regular season points but who get taken out of playoff hockey, at least that’s how I feel after watching these other teams.

Also, I think Kubalik/Saad/Dach are the types of guys who can play a harder playoff style and who are valuable.

 

[TheDachKnight]

A few months ago, I would’ve probably said you’re crazy. But after watching the intensity skilled guys on good teams brought these playoffs, I’d be willing to see what’s out there.

I don’t want the Hawks to just get rid of them, but I think they’re going to continue causing lineup problems unless they change how they play. I do think DeBrincat is more likely to do so, but he still has a ways to go before he’s playing like a Gourde or Tyler Johnson type. (Also, Nylander needs to learn to play an aggressive game and try to become a Palat or Kilorn type, not going to hold my breath though.)

Right now, these two are guys who put up regular season points but who get taken out of playoff hockey, at least that’s how I feel after watching these other teams.

Also, I think Kubalik/Saad/Dach are the types of guys who can play a harder playoff style and who are valuable.

I would agree. Getting some very solid two-way forwards could go a long way toward making us a contender again. Would love to see us get Timo Meier. Also Alex Tuch is another player I’d love to have on our team. I doubt either team is trading them though.

While I don’t think he’s amazing defensively, I think Laine has improved enough defensively to where he’s a more complete player than either of Strome or DeBrincat. I would trade both of them+ for Laine pretty easily. I think Laine would score 50 goals here playing as Kane’s LW. A Laine-Dach-Kane line is pretty much Kane’s dream. Two big RH shots and one of them has legit 50-goal potential.

 

[Jay haller]

Laine would be a walking 40 goal scorer on the Hawks. I doubt Cat will ever get there again.
Laine is better offensively than either.

I don’t see Laine shooting 20% again. Nor do I think debrincat will shoot 8% for the rest of his career.

 

[Malaka]

He and Saad also played well together. I’d definitely be in favor of this.

Kubalik Toews Nylander
Suter(?) Dach Kane
Saad Wennberg Debrincat(?)

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Really would like to take a flyer on wennberg if the jackets buy him out. Even as a 3c or 4c with Suter making the team, he’s excellent defensively. If he finds his offense again it would be an absolute steal

If Jackets buy him out then it wouldn't be bad gamble

If he fails here you would have Kurashev to step right in

Kubalik Toews Nylander
Suter(?) Dach Kane
Saad Wennberg Debrincat(?)

Nylander is pure trash

Kubalik-Toews-Kurashev
Debrincat-Dach-Kane
Suter-Wennberg-Saad

Kurashev should be able to play his offwing (I know he has played C and LW) and would be good fit IMO on that line

Pull plug on Nylander mistake

 

[Jay haller]

Strome is slow and one dimensional as well, and Cat is also one dimensional. You could argue he's also slow for a player of his size.
Neither have tools as elite as Laine.
Laine is at least as fast as Strome, if not faster.
I'll take Laine.

Except you can hide a one dimensional player on a line with Kane.

However, the way the team and league as a whole are constructed. It’s easier to find a physical winger than a two way center.

strome is fine as center for Kane, I’ll take it even further, he’s far and away the best offensive center he’s played with (Richards is the only one remotely close) and who gives a crap about his foot speed on a sheltered kane line. Kane doesn’t exactly play like mcdavid outthere.

I want nothing to do with Dach playing with Kane on reg as it will stunt his development as a kane line is always sheltered 5v5 if you were to trade for Laine you almost have to pencil him into that role and in the same vein you don’t have a ready made no.3 center in house/pipeline.

a debrincat Dach whomever should on paper be a very good third scoring line And it allows him to eat middle six matchups in all zones 5v5.

 

[Jay haller]

Spreading out the scoring, clearly something that’s necessary to have a competitive team. As we’re seeing with the Lightning and the Stars.

(Snark not directed at you.)

they spread out the scoring yes but the real big difference is there’s not a Hedman or even heiskanen on the blueline.

I’d say we matchup fine defensively if we did. Unfortunately every guy is basically at least doing one level too high for his duties

 

[RememberTheRoar]

they spread out the scoring yes but the real big difference is there’s not a Hedman or even heiskanen on the blueline.

I’d say we matchup fine defensively if we did. Unfortunately every guy is basically at least doing one level too high for his duties

They don’t really spread out the scoring though, not like Colliton tries to do.

Colliton’s method creates two pretty soft lines that need to be sheltered rather than just the Kane line needing sheltering.

Tampa, for example, doesn’t have Gourde on the third line just to spread out scoring — Gourde is there because two very good scoring lines are formed above him and he got pushed down. But even then, Gourde plays like a maniac and needs just two bottom sixers to be effective, kind of like Tuch in Vegas. When we can say the same about either DeBrincat or Strome, then I’ll start to agree with Colliton’s strategy.

One thing is clear to me through these playoffs though, you can’t have multiple soft lines and expect to do much. Your skilled players need to do more than skate and pass all fancy.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Except you can hide a one dimensional player on a line with Kane.

However, the way the team and league as a whole are constructed. It’s easier to find a physical winger than a two way center.

strome is fine as center for Kane, I’ll take it even further, he’s far and away the best offensive center he’s played with (Richards is the only one remotely close) and who gives a crap about his foot speed on a sheltered kane line. Kane doesn’t exactly play like mcdavid outthere.

I want nothing to do with Dach playing with Kane on reg as it will stunt his development as a kane line is always sheltered 5v5 if you were to trade for Laine you almost have to pencil him into that role and in the same vein you don’t have a ready made no.3 center in house/pipeline.

a debrincat Dach whomever should on paper be a very good third scoring line And it allows him to eat middle six matchups in all zones 5v5.

I agree with this, even though some may think it’s controversial.

Dach is already looking like too dynamic a player to be pigeonholed into playing a full offense/sheltered role. I’d almost rather see him playing with Toews (maybe they alternate taking draws) and seeing those matchups rather than playing with Kane.

As for Strome with Kane, I’d be fine with that since it would be step toward getting away from Colliton’s two soft lines approach. Also, agree that he’s the best offensive center (aside from Toews) that Kane had had since Richards.

 

[Muffinalt]

They don’t really spread out the scoring though, not like Colliton tries to do.

Colliton’s method creates two pretty soft lines that need to be sheltered rather than just the Kane line needing sheltering.

Tampa, for example, doesn’t have Gourde on the third line just to spread out scoring — Gourde is there because two very good scoring lines are formed above him and he got pushed down. But even then, Gourde plays like a maniac and needs just two bottom sixers to be effective, kind of like Tuch in Vegas. When we can say the same about either DeBrincat or Strome, then I’ll start to agree with Colliton’s strategy.

One thing is clear to me through these playoffs though, you can’t have multiple soft lines and expect to do much. Your skilled players need to do more than skate and pass all fancy.

It's not by design that we want to deploy soft lines. But non high picks, later rounds or trades where you're taking on young talent that 'busted' elsewhere - you need to go for skill. Try to take the guy who can break things open with skill, and hope he plays the right way or can learn. I'm sure the Hawks prefer a Toews or Dach like player (Dach alone is proof they take the tough playing player if given the chance) but later rounds there is no luxury. In the rebuild/retool you won't take the grinders, but the ones who can win games for you.

I mean they're constantly pushing Cat and Strome to 'learn the right habits' and 'play the right way'. I agree we are soft now, we definitely need more toughness and it's possible it only comes through trading our softer core guys - but if we end up as the Minnesota Wild, that's even worse.

So it's really not be design saying that is a little unfair, especially since Stan has built cup winning rosters before. We are in the stage of trying to get high level talent, the Kucherovs if you will, and then we can iron out the correct supporting pieces.

With all that said I share your concern that our current core pieces are too soft to compensate for. They either need to improve or imo we should think of changing out some pieces, and it obviously won't be Kane.

 

[Malaka]

If Jackets buy him out then it wouldn't be bad gamble

If he fails here you would have Kurashev to step right in



Nylander is pure trash

Kubalik-Toews-Kurashev
Debrincat-Dach-Kane
Suter-Wennberg-Saad

Kurashev should be able to play his offwing (I know he has played C and LW) and would be good fit IMO on that line

Pull plug on Nylander mistake

I still have some belief that Nylander is going to be a good player for us

 

[RememberTheRoar]

It's not by design that we want to deploy soft lines. But non high picks, later rounds or trades where you're taking on young talent that 'busted' elsewhere - you need to go for skill. Try to take the guy who can break things open with skill, and hope he plays the right way or can learn. I'm sure the Hawks prefer a Toews or Dach like player (Dach alone is proof they take the tough playing player if given the chance) but later rounds there is no luxury. In the rebuild/retool you won't take the grinders, but the ones who can win games for you.

I mean they're constantly pushing Cat and Strome to 'learn the right habits' and 'play the right way'. I agree we are soft now, we definitely need more toughness and it's possible it only comes through trading our softer core guys - but if we end up as the Minnesota Wild, that's even worse.

So it's really not be design saying that is a little unfair, especially since Stan has built cup winning rosters before. We are in the stage of trying to get high level talent, the Kucherovs if you will, and then we can iron out the correct supporting pieces.

With all that said I share your concern that our current core pieces are too soft to compensate for. They either need to improve or imo we should think of changing out some pieces, and it obviously won't be Kane.

The Lightning’s full top line that has led them these playoffs are all non first rounders.

Yes, you take DeBrincat in his draft slot everytime, but not being able to draft high isn’t an excuse for icing a soft team.

Tampa is showing that choice between grit/grind and skill is a false choice. You can get guys who do both.

Bowman needs to refocus and find those guys who do both, especially when you already have Kane that needs special treatment.

 

[Muffinalt]

The Lightning’s full top line that has led them these playoffs are all non first rounders.

Yes, you take DeBrincat in his draft slot everytime, but not being able to draft high isn’t an excuse for icing a soft team.

Tampa is showing that choice between grit/grind and skill is a false choice. You can get guys who do both.

Bowman needs to refocus and find those guys who do both, especially when you already have Kane that needs special treatment.

No I said you prioritize skill when rebuilding. If you get the chance to pick Dach who does both you do it. But for example you take Amirov ahead of Holloway even though the latter is the more hard nosed one.

Tampa is a cup contender now because they managed to have their hard nosed prospects develop into offensive high impact guys as well.

Palat and to a lesser degree Point are super rare cases, them developing the way they did, how can you predict that? Not by refocusing. Palat is one of my absolute favorite players but he was almost not drafted at all.

I don't fault Stan for prioritizing skill at this stage. I would prefer two way guys myself, all my trade thoughts are about that and I complain how soft we are too... But I don't mind Stan hunting for those big game players.

I wish we were at the point where we make the decision on which soft guys to trade and how to upgrade, and I suspect we will get there after this year. But the point is not prioritizing skill gets you in trouble. Tampa or the 10-15 Hawks, or Boston those are rare.l two way beast rosters. But it's why those teams are cup winners/contenders.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

No I said you prioritize skill when rebuilding. If you get the chance to pick Dach who does both you do it. But for example you take Amirov ahead of Holloway even though the latter is the more hard nosed one.

Tampa is a cup contender now because they managed to have their hard nosed prospects develop into offensive high impact guys as well.

Palat and to a lesser degree Point are super rare cases, them developing the way they did, how can you predict that? Not by refocusing. Palat is one of my absolute favorite players but he was almost not drafted at all.

I don't fault Stan for prioritizing skill at this stage. I would prefer two way guys myself, all my trade thoughts are about that and I complain how soft we are too... But I don't mind Stan hunting for those big game players.

I wish we were at the point where we make the decision on which soft guys to trade and how to upgrade, and I suspect we will get there after this year. But the point is not prioritizing skill gets you in trouble. Tampa or the 10-15 Hawks, or Boston those are rare.l two way beast rosters. But it's why those teams are cup winners/contenders.

The thing is skilled guys are playing an aggressive and two-way game. They’re taking their natural skill and making a conscious decision to add a hard-nosed element/two-way element to it. I’m not advocating for passing on skill in favor of a guy who just gets “hitz.”

Almost every forward is capable of doing it, it’s just that some want to and some don’t. That’s my issue.

Yes you grab skill, but if that skill simply refuses to add anything tough or aggressive to their game, then what’s the point of keeping them around?

I have hope DeBrincat will still add that element, but don’t think Strome or Nylander will.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Strome-Kane>>Dach-Kane.

Also Cat has always had good chemistry with Toews.

Dach is too young in his career to know what type of players fit best with him.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Strome-Kane>>Dach-Kane.

Also Cat has always had good chemistry with Toews.

Dach is too young in his career to know what type of players fit best with him.

True, but who would you rather have him playing like? Toews or Kane?

I get the desire to have him stick at center, but Adam Kimelman was on the Hawks Talk podcast the other day talking about how center vs wing doesn’t really matter much right now because of how much switching happens.

Are you really going to stunt Dach more by playing him with Toews vs playing him with Kane?

 

[echlfreak]

Johnny Hockey might be available?

 

[Mrfenn92]

Johnny Hockey might be available?

No thanks from the hawks

 

[RememberTheRoar]

No thanks from the hawks

Maybe we can ice three fully soft lines!

 

[echlfreak]

99 pts a year ago but he is a hard pass? Ok

 

[ploppsdman]

The cost will likely be too high for Gaudreau , but Im a big fan.