WJC: 2019 WJC U20 D1A in Füssen, Germany (9/12 - 15/12 2018)

[su24]

Well you did speak about Sotsky in lenght, so it is only natural that I assume that his in-form teammate Tereschenko would also be nice addition to the candidate list at very least whether he eventually makes the team or not.

What I originally was aiming at is G Shostak. I really dislike every single goalie on the candidate list this year. Both still eligible goalies from last year are mostly responsible why we are seeing Belarus in 1A and Denmark still in elite.

I was just surprised to see Sotsky's name on the list. And why exactly do you think Tereshchehnko is better than him? He scores much more points, but that's just MHL. Any CHL league is head and shoulders above MHL because guys can't go pro (except NHL) till they're 20. In Russia they can. On the recent Superseries roster Russia U20 team had only 3 players from the MHL, the rest of the team were from VHL, KHL or CHL. I also hope Sotsky won't make the team. Belarus has plenty of talented guys who always played for the country.

Shostak has decent numbers in the MHL, but that's just numbers. The 2nd Almaz goalie has identical stats, so that's maybe just the team. Nikita Tolopilo didn't play at the U20 WJC last year and now he posts decent numbers in Extraleague considering he plays for a team that was able to win only 2 or 3 games this season. His numbers are better than Grischenko's who was a starter last year and lost that tournament for Belarus, so there's some hope.

 

[su24]

Lol, actually trying to compare a 21 year old to a 26 year old. You do realize that players don't simply reach their peak at 20? That players actually continue to improve all the way until they reach their primes at roughly 28-29?

You probably would have given up on Maxim Mamin. Or Ivan Telegin. Or Maxim Shalunov. And many more. If your point is "Karnaukhov won't become a Russian national team star someday"...that's simply a probabilistic truth. Players over roughly a 12-14 year age range can play on the National team, which means that the likelihood a given junior Russian player from any one of the 12-14 junior national teams will play for Russia is low. But it seems like the argument you're making is that he made the wrong career choice, which isn't at all apparent. He's simply following the path that most KHL players follow.

Lol. Mamin had 5 goals as a 19 years old for CSKA and he was invited to their national team when he was 20. Telegin is a great 3-4 line player, but he's scored only 14 goals in his last 116 KHL games, not exactly a superstar. He's actually what Karnaukhov can become at best. Shalunov is only good example of a late bloomer, but he's the only one among hundreds of guys who ended up in the VHL or even in Belarus Extraleague.

 

[kabidjan18]

Lol. Mamin had 5 goals as a 19 years old for CSKA and he was invited to their national team when he was 20. Telegin is a great 3-4 line player, but he's scored only 14 goals in his last 116 KHL games, not exactly a superstar. He's actually what Karnaukhov can become at best. Shalunov is only good example of a late bloomer, but he's the only one among hundreds of guys who ended up in the VHL or even in Belarus Extraleague.

Shalunov is an above-average example of the average KHL player. The average KHL player doesn't tear the league up at 21, but that doesn't prevent them from becoming solid KHL players later on. And you act like going to Dinamo Minsk to get 5 minutes a game would have saved his career. What a joke.

The numbers vary because most players come from smaller clubs that feature young athletes more prominently, but the vast majority of players in the KHL were either getting Karnaukhov's current minutes and/or scoring at roughly the pace in PPG when they were his age. I won't list names because literally, look up any KHL team outside of CSKA or SKA (and even some in those clubs), and most of the players (who grew up in the modern KHL/VHL system) there were also at roughly .25 PPG at his age, give or take a tenth or so depending on the club (and often more if they were say loaned to or played for Novokuznetsk or some other bottom table club). Most players never become KHL superstars. Karnaukhov probably doesn't have the talent to become a superstar, simply because most players don't. You talk about him making the KHL, he already is a KHL player. He is on a KHL contract. He plays most his games for a KHL team. As he improves, he will become a solid KHL player. Playing in Minsk wouldn't have magically given him the genetic talents to be a superstar.

I don't envy you because you're in the position of having to argue that he is a VHL player, "rotting in the VHL", something that is categorically false, simply because you initially misspoke. No one believes that he is a VHL player, because he isn't, or the even more aggressive claim that he is destined to become a VHL player. We've all misspoken before, just own it. You've tried, worse, to argue that it would have been better if he had been like Litvinov and stayed in Dinamo Minsk. Considering that Litvinov is getting 5 minutes a game, and has zero points, I don't know how this is even a tenable position. Even Vladislav Kodola is getting more minutes (12:20) on a KHL team than Litvinov is, though he's probably a fringe KHLer at best.

 

[Pardus]

Latvia's entry list:
http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/697/IHM6970LAT_32E_2_0_LAT.pdf

No Švanenbergs or Zabusovs on the list but many other -01s and one -02 born, Ansons.

 

[kabidjan18]

Latvia's entry list:
http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/697/IHM6970LAT_32E_2_0_LAT.pdf

No Švanenbergs or Zabusovs on the list but many other -01s and one -02 born, Ansons.

Also no Brants Harijs, no Verners Egle. Plus Jasunovs, this is stacking up to be the Vojens roster down to a T.

 

[su24]

Shalunov is an above-average example of the average KHL player. The average KHL player doesn't tear the league up at 21, but that doesn't prevent them from becoming solid KHL players later on. And you act like going to Dinamo Minsk to get 5 minutes a game would have saved his career. What a joke.

The numbers vary because most players come from smaller clubs that feature young athletes more prominently, but the vast majority of players in the KHL were either getting Karnaukhov's current minutes and/or scoring at roughly the pace in PPG when they were his age. I won't list names because literally, look up any KHL team outside of CSKA or SKA (and even some in those clubs), and most of the players (who grew up in the modern KHL/VHL system) there were also at roughly .25 PPG at his age, give or take a tenth or so depending on the club (and often more if they were say loaned to or played for Novokuznetsk or some other bottom table club). Most players never become KHL superstars. Karnaukhov probably doesn't have the talent to become a superstar, simply because most players don't. You talk about him making the KHL, he already is a KHL player. He is on a KHL contract. He plays most his games for a KHL team. As he improves, he will become a solid KHL player. Playing in Minsk wouldn't have magically given him the genetic talents to be a superstar.

I don't envy you because you're in the position of having to argue that he is a VHL player, "rotting in the VHL", something that is categorically false, simply because you initially misspoke. No one believes that he is a VHL player, because he isn't, or the even more aggressive claim that he is destined to become a VHL player. We've all misspoken before, just own it. You've tried, worse, to argue that it would have been better if he had been like Litvinov and stayed in Dinamo Minsk. Considering that Litvinov is getting 5 minutes a game, and has zero points, I don't know how this is even a tenable position. Even Vladislav Kodola is getting more minutes (12:20) on a KHL team than Litvinov is, though he's probably a fringe KHLer at best.

I don't consider Karnaukhov or Kodola a KHL players just like I don't think that Karaban, Ambrogeichik, Parfeevets, Litvinov or many other guys who got some ice time in the league are KHL players as well. Dinamo Minsk uses 30-40 players every season, but only 15-20 of them I'd call a KHL players: those who has any impact on the team's game and results. I don't think that even Dmitri Buinitsky is a real KHL player yet, even though he's scored 8 times more goals than Karnaukhov and they're same age. No one would have cared if one of those guys missed a game o two. And I definitely not gonna call "KHL player" a guy who's scored 1 goal in 46 career KHL games (if you count playoffs as well). That's all.

 

[su24]

HockeyProspect.com 2019 NHL Draft Top 31, November - HockeyProspect.com
New rankings from hockeyprospect. Kolyachonok #22, Seider #25.

 

[jnk96]

Just saw this now:

Alright, so here's who was also listed.

Also For Germany: Tobias Ancicka, Alexander Dersch, Taro Jentzsch, Tommy Pasanen, Moritz Raab

I would say the only surprise is no Yannik Valenti to my count.

I am also surprised not to see Valenti on the list. On the other side, I am also surprised they have Raab on the list. He has totally flown under my radar. I guess I'll have to take a look at him, next time I get a chance.

BTW Nino Kinder (C) is another German on the list.

Central Scouting needs a certain number of players on their lists. So when they don't have enough, they like to toss someone on from a region that doesn't have anyone yet (or only few players). That's how Thomas Reichel ended up on the list a couple years ago, and Betzold last season. Everyone knows they don't have a chance, including whoever is in charge of putting them on the list in the first place. That said, I'm surprised to see this many Germans on there – it shows it's not just one for the sake of having a German on the list.

Seider and Alexandrov are without a doubt legit prospects and Jentzsch is having a very good year so far as well. Dersch, to me, isn't a legit NHL prospect and just shows the impact that playing in the CHL has on a prospect's exposure. Ancicka is arguably the best German prospect talent behind Hendrik Hane (who's likely too short to be considered an NHL prospect) but I didn't think he'd be on this list either. I haven't seen Pasanen play, so no comment. As to Raab... I'd place him in the Reichel/Betzold category, i.e. I don't really understand why he'd be on this list. I'm guessing someone from Central Scouting came out to see Seider in the DNL and noticed Raab as well, but having watched him many times, I don't think Raab is anything special or anywhere near NHL calibre.

 

[su24]

Kolyachonok is not coming.

 

[kabidjan18]

Kolyachonok is not coming.

Was this news released individually or was there a roster release?

 

[su24]

Was this news released individually or was there a roster release?

They released a 37 players camp roster which gonna start in Czech Republic tomorrow. There're some new names comparing to the list on iihf site including 2 guys from NCDC (Schemel and Gavrilovich), only one USHL player (Deryabin, no Borschov), 8 guys from the CHL teams total.
Kolyachenok had a "nice conversation" with the head coach Kravchenko and they "decided that staying in Flint would be better for his development. He definitely will play at the U18 WJC".

 

[su24]

Today they reduced the roster to 28 players. I'm glad they cut off Sotsky, so no MHL players for Belarus this time. They take only 2 goalies to the camp in Czech Republic: Grischenko and Tolopilo.
10 defensemen: 5 guys from Extraleague U20 team, 1 from Yunost Minsk (Vadim Shchechin), 4 from CHL/USHL (Deryabin, Zuyev, Yeryomenko, Sapego).
16 forwards: 9 from U20, 1 from Shakhter Soligorsk (Oksentyuk), 1 from KHL Dinamo (Drozdov), 5 from the CHL (Protas, Sushko, Martynov, Alistrov, Pavlenko).

 

[ozo]

Despite missing Mikhalchuk and Kolyachonok, assuming they cut the right players (like Oksentyuk who is tiny underager and, if taken, will be definately put on a checking line where he will be totally useless), this is a really solid team.

 

[su24]

Also this year they don't have any untalented kids who were on some previous rosters because of their fathers, uncles or grandpas. For example last year Arseni Astashevich was a protege of his father, who is a vice-president of the Belarusian Olympic Committee. Some guy who can actually play hockey didn't make the team because of him and that's one of the reasons they got relegated.
This year they took a few guys who have never been on any national team. Vadim Shchechin, Alexander Skorenov, Zakhar Polishchuk or Nikita Zuyev are more talented than astashkevichs, but they're from small towns and never had a chance to play at U18 or U20 WJC. Skorenov has been playing in Extraleague since he was 17, this year he leads U20 team in scoring, but he has never been invited to the U18 WJC, Astashevich has played there twice.
Kids of the powerful parents are a big problem in Belarusian hockey.

 

[Pan]

Also this year they don't have any untalented kids who were on some previous rosters because of their fathers, uncles or grandpas. For example last year Arseni Astashevich was a protege of his father, who is a vice-president of the Belarusian Olympic Committee. Some guy who can actually play hockey didn't make the team because of him and that's one of the reasons they got relegated.
This year they took a few guys who have never been on any national team. Vadim Shchechin, Alexander Skorenov, Zakhar Polishchuk or Nikita Zuyev are more talented than astashkevichs, but they're from small towns and never had a chance to play at U18 or U20 WJC. Skorenov has been playing in Extraleague since he was 17, this year he leads U20 team in scoring, but he has never been invited to the U18 WJC, Astashevich has played there twice.
Kids of the powerful parents are a big problem in Belarusian hockey.

So funny.

 

[ozo]

So funny.

You have to elaborate on this. Outsiders like me might be curious, whether you agree or disagree with the post you are responding to.

 

[Pan]

You have to elaborate on this. Outsiders like me might be curious, whether you agree or disagree with the post you are responding to.

Yeah, sorry for that.
I guess saying that "some guy who can actually play hockey didn't make the team because of Astashevich" means that one has a really keen understanding of ice hockey which helps him to feel a subtle difference between Astashevich and, say, Grinkevich and, more than that, to find a place between them for "some guy", the one stronger than Astashevich but weaker then Grinkevich (cause if not it means that Grinkevich took "that guy's" spot as well, which is not true cause I didn't see his last name between Olympic Committee members).
And I'd really appreciate to get the problem of powerful parents kids more disclosed. How big is it? Huge? Or even bigger?

 

[su24]

Yeah, sorry for that.
I guess saying that "some guy who can actually play hockey didn't make the team because of Astashevich" means that one has a really keen understanding of ice hockey which helps him to feel a subtle difference between Astashevich and, say, Grinkevich and, more than that, to find a place between them for "some guy", the one stronger than Astashevich but weaker then Grinkevich (cause if not it means that Grinkevich took "that guy's" spot as well, which is not true cause I didn't see his last name between Olympic Committee members).
And I'd really appreciate to get the problem of powerful parents kids more disclosed. How big is it? Huge? Or even bigger?

Everyone knows who Astashevich is, why he made that team last year and who was left at home to favor his father. Just to add to the listed above guys: Malashchenko scored 11 goals in 24 games for U20 team last year and didn't make the team for example.
You wanna see the difference between Grinkevich and Astashevich?!!! LOL. You can see it this year in Extraleague. Grinkevich was scoring a point-per-game in Extraleague-2 and then he was signed by Extraleague-1 leader Yunost! And he already has 3 points in 9 games for them. Astashevich has ZERO points in 23 games against real Extraleague-1 teams for Molodechno (he had 2 points in 7:0 and 9:0 beatings of the u20 team). Are you wanna say he deserves a spot on the Extraleague team as well as on the U20 NT last year and his father has nothing to do with it?!!! Now THAT'S funny. At least his father can say now that his son has played with Gretzky on the same team.
I'm not gonna waist my time listing everything what powerful parents did to their kids. I just gonna ask you one question: what year Konstantin Zakharov (you know who his father is) was actually born?
Konstantin Zakharov at eliteprospects.com

 

[kabidjan18]

We're probably going to get beat soundly by Belarus and Germany, maybe Latvia too. Austrian hockey just breaks your heart.

First, two top forwards were left off the friendlies roster, or rather they were put on call. So they declined the injury-call up because that was a tremendous insult, as they were and are better than mostly every forward who actually ended up on that roster, and some of the names on that roster were truly...truly... So they didn't feel like taking the insult and to be frank I don't blame them.

Then Marco got hurt. Well shit, that's our three best goal-scorers right there. That's the only three guys we have who can play in front of the net. We were already going to have problems scoring goals. Now, after only one injury, we could be out 4 of our best 6 forwards.

Then the lines were released today and I won't use names but the second line center I believe is a kid who...well, he has a dad. Slow, giveaway machine, only plays on the perimeter basically. Everything you could criticize a other players for he is worse at, and everything they do well he doesn't even do competently. It's not that he wouldn't be some good as a 4th line center-man per say. However, he's been given a prominent role in every Junior National Tournament, barring injury cases, and he's always been woefully inadequate. I've seen him center our top lines too many times, and I've seen us lose too many times. Meanwhile, actually talented individuals are sitting on the lower lines because...well, the coaches said, like they do every year, "we don't want the best players, we want the right players." Please...Austria doesn't have a wealth of talent. We need the best players. And to no one's surprise now, another kid in our Federation's favorite club is on the third line. Does he score points? No, not really. But look! Kartner-born!

And I know what's going to happen. Whatever result we get, so long as we don't get relegated, is going to be celebrated. And we're going to say "we just didn't have the talent." Bullshit. The talent at least to contest was there, but talent didn't have the right dad.

Marco Rossi deserves better. He deserved a chance to play in the WJC in his draft year. Switzerland courted him, they could have had him, but he chose Austria instead. We don't deserve a player like him. A lot of players deserve better, we have a generational defensive corp. They're going to absolutely have to stand on their heads to even be in a game vs Belarus or Germany, if they can't keep the opposition to 1 goal then we lose. Period. And I must be clear. If we do somehow magically win, it will not be because of the system's silly antics, or discrimmination against Salzburgers and favoritism in favor of Carinthians. It will be in spite of it. To say that it is because of it is like to say that the economy in a given country is going strong because it has a lunatic president who gives federal jobs to his children and not in spite of it.

I'm still going to root my heart out for this team. Laugh, cry, dream, and all over again. But realistically, 3rd would be very nice.

 

[su24]

Looks like Sapego and Protas mean something to the Prince Albert Raiders success this season. They were 26-1-0 with those guys on the roster, but as soon as they left for the WJC Prince Albert lost to the worst WHL team with 4 wins total

 

[kunabai]

oh wow, such an interesting thread we have here, surprised me a lot

hoping there would be a lot more, reading it was a pleasure and some pure fun

i'll leave my bold prediction here: maxim sushko won't become the top scorer of belarusian team ))

 

[wings5]

Kolyachonok is not coming.

So he does not want to come help his team get promoted and instead they think couple extra weeks playing for a garbage team is going to do magic for his development? Sounds like a really bad joke to me.

 

[ozo]

So he does not want to come help his team get promoted and instead they think couple extra weeks playing for a garbage team is going to do magic for his development? Sounds like a really bad joke to me.

Well he already sat out huge chunk of the season due to a bad situation in London and then did same in Flint due paperwork issues. To come over to Europe to play fives games over three weeks as a tripple underager might not be ideal again. Sucks because I also wanted to see him, but his time will come.

 

[wings5]

Well he already sat out huge chunk of the season due to a bad situation in London and then did same in Flint due paperwork issues. To come over to Europe to play fives games over three weeks as a tripple underager might not be ideal again. Sucks because I also wanted to see him, but his time will come.

Triple underager yeah but he's a projected top 60 pick and this isn't even the top division , he should be more than capable to handle this.

 

[Garl]

We're probably going to get beat soundly by Belarus and Germany, maybe Latvia too. Austrian hockey just breaks your heart.

First, two top forwards were left off the friendlies roster, or rather they were put on call. So they declined the injury-call up because that was a tremendous insult, as they were and are better than mostly every forward who actually ended up on that roster, and some of the names on that roster were truly...truly... So they didn't feel like taking the insult and to be frank I don't blame them.

Then Marco got hurt. Well ****, that's our three best goal-scorers right there. That's the only three guys we have who can play in front of the net. We were already going to have problems scoring goals. Now, after only one injury, we could be out 4 of our best 6 forwards.

Then the lines were released today and I won't use names but the second line center I believe is a kid who...well, he has a dad. Slow, giveaway machine, only plays on the perimeter basically. Everything you could criticize a other players for he is worse at, and everything they do well he doesn't even do competently. It's not that he wouldn't be some good as a 4th line center-man per say. However, he's been given a prominent role in every Junior National Tournament, barring injury cases, and he's always been woefully inadequate. I've seen him center our top lines too many times, and I've seen us lose too many times. Meanwhile, actually talented individuals are sitting on the lower lines because...well, the coaches said, like they do every year, "we don't want the best players, we want the right players." Please...Austria doesn't have a wealth of talent. We need the best players. And to no one's surprise now, another kid in our Federation's favorite club is on the third line. Does he score points? No, not really. But look! Kartner-born!

And I know what's going to happen. Whatever result we get, so long as we don't get relegated, is going to be celebrated. And we're going to say "we just didn't have the talent." Bull****. The talent at least to contest was there, but talent didn't have the right dad.

Marco Rossi deserves better. He deserved a chance to play in the WJC in his draft year. Switzerland courted him, they could have had him, but he chose Austria instead. We don't deserve a player like him. A lot of players deserve better, we have a generational defensive corp. They're going to absolutely have to stand on their heads to even be in a game vs Belarus or Germany, if they can't keep the opposition to 1 goal then we lose. Period. And I must be clear. If we do somehow magically win, it will not be because of the system's silly antics, or discrimmination against Salzburgers and favoritism in favor of Carinthians. It will be in spite of it. To say that it is because of it is like to say that the economy in a given country is going strong because it has a lunatic president who gives federal jobs to his children and not in spite of it.

I'm still going to root my heart out for this team. Laugh, cry, dream, and all over again. But realistically, 3rd would be very nice.

Orange man bad! Drumpf!